rigging65

You could always do some pull tests on it to see where it's breaking at...use a fish scale (a highly calibrated one, of course) "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Bart- Mil Spec. cord is tested for elongation under Federal Standard 191, using test method 6016. The test method (in a nut shell) says you load a cord to 75% of it's rated strength, then measure elongation. For Dacron cord tested under this method (which is what you would find on most canopies) you can have no more than 12% elongation. Spectra is 6% max. Now, seeing as how you would rarely load a line to 75% of it's rated strength, you need to figure out line loads first, then extrapolate the elongation from it. Suffice it to say, Dacron stretches twice as much as Spectra. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Actually, the best way to really tell what's going on with line trim is to get a copy of the line-trim spec. sheets from the mfg. and compare your lines to that. Just ask, they'll send them to you. They can be complicated to read, so find someone who knows how to read them help you out if you're confused...everything is based of a specific A-line to start with. Since line wear tends to be consistent between mirrored lines, you would expect that a line on one side of the canopy should match it's mirror on the other side, but many canopies (especially anything slightly elliptical...like many canopies are now) change line length as they move in towards the center. It's still mirrored from side-to side on individual lines thought.... Just because your lines match side to side doesn't mean they are "in" trim. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Most lofts will be more than happy to let you come and hang out and watch what's going on. If they won't, you might want to find out why.... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Actually, what I like best about triples is the feel you get for what the canopy is doing. Of course, you have to be flying with a pretty good wingloading and have the experience to feel it, but.... When the breaklines run through the riser-mounted rings the risers dampen some of the movement and vibrations felt through the lines. Triples take a bit to get used to though and it's important that you flare with both arms the same way (ie- toggles mirror each other's position as you engage them) or you'll end up sliding off your line on final...something which can be useful for putting yourself back on your line if needed... As for the price, your existing risers can be converted for much less than what you quoted. Any competent rigger can add triples, in about 45 minutes. Personally, all my rigs have removable triples on them so that I can convert if I need to (Larksheaded 1000lb Spectra for the third leg, with a permanently attached loop at the bottom of the riser...this also allows you to stow your breaks conventionally as the Spectra stays out of the way)...although I don't think I'd take them for many reasons. One point to watch: If your lower-break lines are built in the two-piece style (ie- a cat's-eye loop with a toggle attachment section hanging off of it) you may find that the cat's-eye hangs up on the ring of the third-leg at the most inopportune times...like when you're finishing your flare. It doesn't really retard the flare, as the third legs moves along with you as your toggles, but it sure feels funky. On continuous break lines, like on the Xaos, they work just perfectly though! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

True, rounds do require a bit more information to work with, but don't make the mistake of thinking you won't see them out there...and not necessarily on sport jumpers. There are more and more pilots that are taking rigs into the air with them, and those rigs have to be repacked every 120 days as well. At our shop, we have a hard-line canopy life of 30 years, we just won't work on them if they're older than that. The military uses a 20 year life for their canopies. We figure that, after 30 years, that system has been stored in less-than-ideal conditions at some point, maybe has been subject to fumes and/or petroleum products, sun, moisture, etc...basically, it's just old. pH tesets and thumb-punching will solve a lot of questions about material degradation, but can't always confirm thread constitution, line strength, etc. Being in California, we don't run across many reserve that are more than about 8-10 years old. A few that are 12-15 years old maybe...although we do have a couple of original Swifts out there. I know that a buddy of mine that rigs in the midwest sees stuff significantly older, but he tests them and makes his own decision on a case-by-case basis...as a good rigger should "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

...and it's easy to do! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

They're easy enough to make field convertible too, as long as you start with a soft pud for your throw-out handle (also easily added). Just add a larkshead-able loop to the top of the bridle and you can larkshead on another looped piece of TY IV with a #0 and PUD bridle assembly on anytime you want. I have convertibles on all my rigs. I'd rather use a pull-out, but throw out seems to work better for me with my wing-suit. All are built on a 9 ft. bridle, keep away from 7 ft. bridles and throw-outs...bad juju. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

I tend to agree with Rob on this. Students do stupid-unexpected stuff. That's why they're students! One just hopes they do less stupid stuff as they get more experience.... ...on the other hand, it sure would be nice to reduce future canopy accidents with really good initial training and realistic canopy sizing for weight.... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

way cool! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Personally, I think they're WAY over engineered, to stiff, hard to pack, and that elastic-freefly-strap thingy is so much more than is needed, not to mention adds something else to maintain to the rig! And, of course, with over engineering comes inflated prices. Hey full page 4-color and that much Balistic cloth isn't cheap!! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Why don't you do a jump or two on a 170ish canopy first to get back into it? Once you're ready to move back down to the 150, don't dwell on the 13 pounds difference, just fly the canopy until it stops moving. Too many folks get tied up with numbers and the such and forget to feel what the canopy is doing and fly it accordingly. Many jumpers will find that there simply isn't that big a change by adding or taking away 13lbs....you might feel it more with limited jump numbers, but my guess is that if you just concentrate on flying and not worrying about it you'll do just fine! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

A lot of folks out here use single or two piece DiveSkins (basically like rash guards for surfing or diving). They're VERY thin and seem to provide a good base layer. One item of interest that bears discussing though...if you're going to wear thicker gloves than normal (or if you don't normally wear gloves), FOR GOD'S SAKE PRACTICE PULLING ON THE GROUND!!! It seems like once every winter/spring we have someone have a total because they can't find their main deployment handle with their gloved hand. Since not a lot of people wear gloves here during Season, when they do it sometimes proves to be a problem. Personally, I wear gloves all the time...saves my knuckles from my slider. Plus, this way I'm already used to the feel of everything while wearing gloves, so the winter isn't such a big deal. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Ok, since were on the SDC line, does anyone have numbers on injuries there during their FJC jumps? There's a girl here who learned there, then moved away and now coaches for us that said nearly 1/4 of her FJC class of 10 or 12 (I can't remember which) had to be helped out of the field after their first day of jumping. Mostly turned ankles or road-rash-ish stuff. I trained another guy in one of our Rigger's courses about 2 years ago who said something very similar. Now, both of these individuals are now very capable canopy pilots, but does a 25% injury rate sound high to anyone else? Can anyone substantiate this? "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Numbers are just numbers. You've got to take in all sorts of other issues: Density altitude for one, landing are size for another...the list goes on. For true first timers, playing it as safe as you can seems to be pretty smart...AFF students have this nasty habit of flaring waaaayyyy to high and thudding in. We let the control lines out a bit on our student canopies, effectively "detuning" them so they can't easily stall under normal working conditions...this saves students from stalling the canopy at 40 feet and plummiting in under a stalling main. The trade off is slightly less flare at landing, so we keep the canopies conservative (about .8 or so) which helps make up for the detuning. Just to play devil's advocate though...what happens when these guys and gals are off student status and are thrust into the sport world? How fast are they downsizing and would learning under something a little faster make them more ready to move into the current-use market?? Could we reduce canopy fatalities by teaching jumpers on SLIGHTLY smaller canopies sooner, with more intense training??? I'm just posing this as a question, as I'm interested in what folks think... Maybe some sort of a progressive canopy program that gets them flying something around 1.2 by the time they graduate (~20 jumps)? Remember, this is a forum for thoughtful discussion, not a flame-athon. Have at it! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Bill's right. There are a lot of things that are "law" not because they WILL kill you if you don't follow them, but because they MAY kill SOMEONE SOMEDAY if they're aren't followed (usually they already have). Or, the rule simply keeps someone from taking the next step beyond it, which may have dire consequences. Facts are these - many people aren't smart enough to keep themselves from getting killed without some sort of guidance. The unfortunate part is that many of those people still sue...even when it was their own negligence that got them in trouble in the first place! "It couldn't possibly be my fault..." Responsibility? What's that?? "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

BUY a tool bag??? Come on folks, part of rigging is sewing, and sewing a kit bag is a great way to practice and at the same time make something useful. If it takes making two or three, so what? You need the skills! We used to provide basic outlines/guides to people going through our rigger's course as part of the sewing block. They worked on tool pouches for their tools and (eventually) put them together by building them into a "soft briefcase" design. This was all done under the guise of their sewing project and seemed to work quite well. It's not hard, just find something that works well for others and copy it. Rigging is more than just folding parachutes, and there is nothing worse than a technician who can't do all of their job requirements well "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Risers aren't TSO'd, do anything you want to them...check that, ask your rigger what you can do to them, then ask HIM to please do what you'd like with them. We use old hard housings with an end pounded flat and ground down, then tacked in place...stay away from plastic inserts, they can crush or kink! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

We do 30K jumps twice a year out here (SkyDance SkyDiving, Davis CA) and have full pressure Oxygen on for 1 hour prior to take off to reduce the Nitrogen in your blood. Caravan ride takes about 45-55 minutes. We've been doing it for some years now, it's great fun. Requires a med. cert and a chamber ride...both of which are great to have anyway. Information is generally available on their website www.skydance.net "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Absolutely, and you could probably get a bunch of other really useful info at the PIA Symposium too...like most everything you ever wanted to know about how ANYTHING in this sport is built. Of course you'll also hear about 10 different ways to do anything, but that's great too...more information to make your informed decisions based upon! If you can make it, you shouldn't miss it...and go ahead and pay the extra $$ to hear the lecturers, it's WELL worth it! Some of the most active, most up-to-date folks in the industry speak every time. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

There's a very simple tool called a "through-the-bag-cord" or just "through-bag-cord" that is made just for that. It's basically a doubled length of cord with a ball-lock slider on it that you can use to tighten down the two halves of the bag once you get the reserve in place, thus maintaining the "crater" in the middle of your packjob. The right tool for the right job makes life soooo much easier. Before you put the packjob in the bag, loosen up the ball-lock and slip the end of the cord down through both grommets. You can either tie a nice fat slip knot in the end to keep it from slipping back through or larkshead a ring onto it. Once you've got the canopy bagged and the safety stow fastened in place, put your knee right over those two lined up grommets and rock the sides of the bag up and down. This burrowing your knee into the back will replace the pilot-chute "crater" in the packjob that's started to fill out with canopy "ear". Now, simply push the ball-lock down the cord until it hits the bag and lock it. That'll keep the packjob proper until your ready to slip the actual pull-up cord through the other end of the loop and pull it back up through the packjob (after taking out the slip knot or ring, obviously). It's simpler to show/do it than to explain it, trust me. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

If it cycles all the way down, Airtec says it's good to go! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

So now we're just hoping that each DZ is going to take it upon themselves to make the world a better place and teach canopy safety? I love the idea, but somehow I doubt it's going to happen.... Bill, I LOVE the idea of everyone being in-tune enough and wanting to help each other out and taking the time to teach and yadda yadda yadda, but I can't imagine the whole community getting behind this in way you seem to suggest. Of course, many of us will continue to try and make it better on our own DZs, as we can, but don't you think we could accomplish more with a large scale program (leave the money issues out of this for the time being...)? "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Not to stir up the pot too much (as I am in agreement with the idea of Canopy Check-outs) but who is going to have the authority or experience to give a check out? Lots of Instructors fly conservative canopies at low loadings because they choose to...how does that qualify them to check out someone on a hot-rod? I'm a Canopy Instructor for both HP and CReW at our DZ (as well as an AFF/I and other stuff) and I basically designed our advanced canopy curriculum (by stealing others good ideas and adding my own). I've been flying HP canopies for a good bit of time and I can tell you that it takes someone with quite a bit of experience to teach a skill like HP canopy flight, let alone potentially checking someone out to fly a particular canopy. You wouldn't let someone who does nothing ever but Tandems take out fresh AFF students, would you? Sure it's all falling through the air, but we all know it's not the same... Also, if this sport is about freedom and the ability to do what we wish (within reason) what if a dz simply isn't up-with-the-times when it comes to HP canopy flight? Folks who want to jump HP canopies can't jump there?...do you really think drop zones will give up jumpers that easily?? This is still a business folks, and DZs are in it to make money...which is the same reason why the whole Stiletto-Waiver idea failed...there will always be someone willing to do what others aren't to make business work. I'm not condoning this, but it's the way it is. Established gear dealers HATE trunk dealers for this very reason...undercutting. In my opinion, and thats all this is, I think we should enact canopy ratings just like we have licenses. I know, I know, no one wants more controls put in place, but the facts are pretty clear... There are simply too many folks getting killed under working canopies because they don't know how to handle them, or how to handle them when it all starts to go downhill fast. This idea then prompts the introduction of Canopy Instructors (USPA?) and we go down the AFF-style instructional road. Now, the real question is, are you each willing to pay the extra money in dues or licenses in order to enact this and save lives....???? Wanting change and effecting it are two totally different ducks.... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Wait a minute!! What do you mean a non-rigger cannot sew on their own D-bag??? There is nothing ANYWHERE, that I'm aware of, that says ANYTHING about work being done on non-emergency parts. You can buy aftermarket pilot chutes, d-bags, risers, whatever...and they're all perfectly legal to use. None of those parts are certified, which means they can be made by ANYONE, yourself included. Continue that line of thought and you can certainly sew on your own d-bag...but not your freebag, as it's TSO'd. If you're so inclined you can jump a bedsheet tied on with shoelaces...as long as the system you're intending to use a your back up (ie - not used intentionally on this jump) is TSO'd and packed in accordance with the mfg. instruction by a properly rated rigger! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."