rigging65

PM me with your email addy and I'll send you across our course outline with prices and such. It looks like the next one we'll be holding will be from the 14th to the 22nd of March. A Senior Rigger's ticket is a great way to be at least educated enough to say "I don't know what's wrong with it, but I know it's not right...let's go find someone who knows more about it." It might save someones life! (and that someone might be you!) "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

When I was learning to skydive at Perris Valley (on a VERY accelerated program) I started to ask around about how reserve deployments worked. I'm a very technical minded person and I like to know how all my toys go together and what actually goes on when you enter a input. To make a long story short, I was new to the sport so I didn't know exactly who I should be asking about this, so I asked my Coaches. They basically shrugged and said "You pull the handle and the reserve deploys." This wasn't good enough for me. I took a bit of time off and after a few months got myself into a rigging course, mostly just to answer my own questions about function. Who knew I'd end up running a loft, Managing the facility and teaching rigging courses? Truth be told, most of the people who come through our courses have the same questions as I did (they just want to know how their stuff works), so that's the way we teach the class. It's been VERY productive for the overall learning cycle in the classes! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Great job on responding to what you considered an emergency and executing your procedures! Appropriate action sure beats the alternative... Not to undermine your decision process AT ALL, but keep in mind: Your reserve is the last canopy you've got. Being able to fix a minor problem on on your main, while maintaining Altitude Awareness, gives you more options to work with. In the future, you might consider doing some riser flying or single-break flying to give you some experience in situations like these...it'll buy you some more time to work through the problem. You don't have to land in that configuration, but at least experience it! Again, good job on being pro-active, now finish the job by extending your education! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

I don't know Chris, they've already got their canopies, but I told them we're holding their new suits ransom until we get the 21...Besides, aren't you a Beezey a bit OLD for something like that "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Try Keeping the lens open until you actually leave the plane, then open it under canopy. If it's really cold, drilling some small holes (like 1/8") along the lens piece right in front of your nose helps...maybe three to start. That helps air flow over the lens and clears it up. Also, try to make a conscience effort to breath in and out through your mouth in freefall... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Without a doubt, I couldn't agree more! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

There are some pretty serious shape changes to it...much more like the original that the last style was. It has a rather flat "forehead" section, but other than that, it certainly harkens back to the original. I bet if you send Jeane at Bonehead an email she'd send you a pic of it. The one I have of it is way too far back to see anything worth while. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

One way to accomplish this (although it works better, we found, when built into a rig as opposed to retrofitted) is to build a fishmouthed Cordura pouch with elastic tape fitted inside the opening. You stretch the tape out a bit and stitch it in place, when you release tension, it gathers up the opening of the BOC mouth like a ruffle (or something). With both sides/edges sewn into place, the elastic tape pulls the mouth tight against the rig, but the pouch still has room to hold a pilot chute (whatever the size, if you cut the pouch right). It also gives a nice continuous look to the bottom of the rig. Like I said, I think it works better when designed into the rig (like on the old Reflex H&C), but I suppose with some skill you could retro one. One the other hand, as someone else stated, it takes about 10 minutes to change out a standard BOC. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Round reserves worked too, are square reserves a marketing gag? Internal riser covers? Cypres's?, Velcro-less toggles? Mai and reserve pin protection that works? The list goes on and on. This is just too close to "we have always done it that way", a line sure to put my blood pressure through the roof. *** Ok, this thread has obviously turned itself into a monster, so I'm going to try not to feed it much more, but I have to agree with some things that Hook said. New isn't necessarily better, but then again, just because "it's always been that way" doesn't make it best. Just like RSLs, AADs, etc., this is a matter of what your comfortable with. Personally, I don't think you can beat a rig with dual riser covers, a pull-out, RSL, Cypres and soft handles. But that's me. Jump whatcha like, but at least have the open minded-ness to think and consider other ideas before dismissing them with a wave and "I don't like it." I choose to jump what I do because I feel that the information I've collected about all of the options on my rig lead me to the decisions I've made...not hype or yard-talk. I'm the type of person that needs to know what's going on technically with my gear and the skydive itself...that's why I became a Rigger, and then continued on to become a Master Rigger. That's why I work for the largest loft in Northern California. That's why I'm an AFF/I. Gather information from reliable sources and make your own decisions...that's the last I'll say about it. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Amen. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

We don't use either. Never needed them and I don't see any reason why we would in the future. We don't even teach their use in our Rigger's Courses. Reserves can be packed without weights or clamps folks, and done equally as clean and quick. Plus, it's one (or several) less things to leave in a rig! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Actually, I did read the post, and at no time did I EVER say that Bill was either supportive or against either type of handle. All I stated was that grip strength was not an issue. People argue that they want to be able to "snag" the D-handle. I argue that anything that can be snagged should be re-thought. People argue being strong enough in the hand to operate a soft handle, Bill Booth's post addresses this with numbers, not just "thoughts". These are simply my observations and what I consider a logical argument that soft handles are actually safer than D-handles. That said, I don't care what ANYONE jumps! You make that decision - not me as an AFF/I nor as a Master Rigger nor as a Gear Manufacturer - but you! You should be jumping what makes you most comfortable, given that you have all the facts of the case....seems to me that the grips strength test lends to an argument for the soft handle as being no harder to pull, and they're obviously less prone to snagging. It seems that most people who argue against soft handles don't have much data to back up their claims, only "feelings". Give me numbers, people!! With those I can more clearly see the forrest AND the trees! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Ok, but if the pillow is made properly, with some sort of re-inforcement to keep it standing out (as most all soft handles are now) that issue should be sorted. And that is a very sensible position to take, given what you've seen in your career. Well, than you're much luckier than I. I've personally put two floating "D" rings back into their pockets in freefall. Both on other people's rigs. Both rigs were very well maintained and did not have any velcro wear issues that would cause the handle to get kicked out. I've also had my own "D" (when I had one) get pinched out in the door as we jammed up an 8-way. I was able to get it back in before we left, but only just. Not to mention the premature reserve deployment we had here a few years back. Freeflyer in Head-down gets his "D" snagged by the other guys camera lens and gets dumped out at 9K. Damaged the reserve and he ended up smacking in hard enough to break his pelvis in a few places (Ouch!). Now, I don't really hold this event very meaningful in this discussion because it could have been avoided (although this was a controlled contact with some excessive movement, not a full-out collision), but it still happened and would most likely have been avoided with a soft handle. Like I said, personal frame of reference is a sound way to make decisions, but people (not aimed at anyone in particular!) should be more open to ideas of evolution and change. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Which is why I said "the best way to confirm proper sequence." What you did, you did by training and because you understood the necessary sequence, not because of the handle type you had. Why? What did it being metal have to do with anything? You said you felt down the MLW to the handle. You obviously knew which MLW to move down, and found the big lump sticking out of it, so why does it matter what that lump is made of? You couldn't see it, so you used another (good) way to find it. Read Bill Booths last post here http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=141612#141612 In a nut shell, it says that his test showed it doesn't matter what type handle was used, grip strength and the ability to pull were not changed by the handle type. I think there is a stigma against change (as this linked thread suggests). Someone said "Why fix it if it isn't broken?" and there is truth to that, but there is also truth to the idea of an evolutionary design (We'll keep this contained to mechanical design...I don't even want to touch the whole Creationism argument!!) "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Very true, and certainly a good point...as is Bill's about the 'different feel' of handles. My argument against the ease of 'snagging' a metal handle with just a finger is just that, it's easy to 'snag' it on a finger...or anything else for that matter. As for the 'feel' of a handle: If your're not looking at the handles (or at least trying to) then you're doing something wrong. Trained properly, it doesn't matter how bad the spin is, you'll still try and look for the handles. Sight is probably the best way to confirm proper sequence. Following the logic that the 'feel' of the handle is important, wouldn't the 'feel' of how it's attached (ie- inboard on the harness) also be a possible way to differentiate the two handles? Granted, a soft handle is not as tactile as a "D" ring, but it also doesn't have the snag characteristics that a "D" does. 6 of one, half dozen of another? Maybe... One needs to remember that you're constantly playing the odds with skydiving anyway. My preference is to guard a little more heavily against snagging, given there is good training (and good currency) with emergency procedures. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

So how does that work for a canopy that is packed in a sandy environment versus one that isn't? A humid environment? There are too many variables to simply put dates on the lifespan of a canopy. Riggers are paid to inspect gear and make a decision on it's airworthiness, period. There are tests that can be performed that are far more accurate than simply setting a date. That being said, our shop works on a 30 year limit because we figure that anything that old has probably, at some point, found itself in conditions that cause deterioration...if nothing less than cumulative UV exposure. Nothing is set in stone though. On rare occasions we've been known to pack equipment older than 30 years old after doing extensive fabric testing on it. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

If a metal handle is supperior, why doesn't everyone have one for their cutaway? Same comment/question for soft handles? Both have advantages and disadvantages. Learn the facts about each, make an adult, informed decision and get the proper training on either set. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

They had a nice display at PIA and Ian spoke very positively of the new designs. The rig looks ok, not fabulous, but certainly nice and solid. Their three-ring adaptation was interesting. I sat through the spiel that Ian gave about it. In a nut shell, it allows the system to be built with less accuracy and still be within tolerance. I was sitting with Kelly from VSE and Bill from Mirage, all next to Bill Booth. After the session was over we all looked at Bill (Booth) and said "Well?" He seemed relatively indifferent about it, but said there was certainly merit to it. The studies that were done on the new system aren't complete. They show load at the release loop only and don't take into account several other issues that will change pull forces. The increase in performance is basically about a 1.5 pound reduction of pull at the loop. Certainly a slight improvement, but not huge. They were also being tight-lipped about the price of the piece. I'm sure it won't be cheap (comparatively), but we'll just have to wait and see! "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Action Air Parachutes holds several week-long certification classes per year for Senior Rigger candidates. If you're interested, contact sales@actionair.com and they'll give you the info you need. There's a course upcoming in about a month or so. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

...I love it when logic wins, thanks bill. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

Teams are teams, and for the most part, they will almost always be better than even hard-core jumpers... Sponsored athletes tend to be like that I'm not sure why anyone (except possibly teams) needs something better/faster than what's out there now. Almost no-one if fly X-braces to their potential yet, so why do we need something new?...unless it packs itself... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

It really should fit right...and it sounds like 19 inches is too long for you. If the MLW is too long you can run into problems getting the to toggles/slider/etc. On the plus side, any good Master Rigger can modify/replace the MLW for you for a relatively painless price. We charge about $150-$200, sometimes less (if it's non-articulated). "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

To be honest, I'm not sure. We're going to keep it close to home for a while to do a second round of Beta testing on it...to check for any unexpected wear points, etc. We really don't want to grow too big, too quick...and, if I do say so myself, it would be very easy with this rig design to do just that. We'll just have to play it out as it comes. "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

It also lets the instructor hear/see what the student is saying...like an exit count, among other things... "...and once you had tasted flight, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward. For there you have been, and there you long to return..."

It's not like one Cypres uses more battery than another, right? So, if you backdated the installation date on the box, I don't see why it would matter as far as battery life. I don't think there would be anything "illegal" about it, unless you told them they were new batts. They're still good, just with less life in them.