winsor

Hey, I saw something shiny and lost track. This all has a fantastic level of importance, and the fact that my response could possibly suggest any level of indifference is inexcusable. Can you ever find it in your heart to forgive me?

Of course not. Again, that's just an incredibly stupid thing to say. Not as stupid as saying people would approve of human trafficking if it was done by a muslim, but pretty close. Stop talking nonsense and I'll stop disagreeing. Your fate is in your own hands. I guess you're right. The fact that rape is halal, and that the slave trade is a long and proud Muslim tradition is incredibly stupid. That I should besmirch an entire population based on nothing more than clearly stated tenets of their faith is inexcusable. You, sir, have put me in my place.

Wait - there's a difference? If I am ever to be as wonderful as you, can't I expect all the stuff of which you disapprove to disappear like the morning dew? I find it tough to go on living, knowing that you disagree with me. Please be gentle with your criticism. I'm a sensitive guy.

LOL moron Now you've gone and hurt my feelings. You have tumbled to the fact that your approval is what I live for. I want to be just like you when I grow up. You're so smart. It's odd - since the things you say on other subjects clearly show you do have the ability to think and reason, I thought you said dumbass shit like the above because you were trolling for a reaction - kinda like Ron does with every subject you've decided to do it with this one. But maybe you really do think that people would defend this guy's criminal behaviour if he was an imam instead of a minister, despite the ludicrous absurdity of the idea. Either way, you do kinda need to just grow up. You're so kewl. And you give me all this great advice for free!

LOL moron Now you've gone and hurt my feelings. You have tumbled to the fact that your approval is what I live for. I want to be just like you when I grow up. You're so smart.

If a Muslim was involved it would be business as usual, and those criticizing his behavior would be excoriated for "islamophobia." As an aside, any scandal these days is a '-gate' and anything one finds distasteful is '-phobia," and neither of these appelations has much to do with any lexical definition.

immeasurable and undefinable ***the goal of my proposal is actually to curtail the FIRST unaffordable child undefinable Actually completely draconian in a country where the Supreme Court has already ruled Constitutionally that we pretty much have choices over our bodies. Except for example, Vaccines a public health issue - what you are advocating is not a health issue - it is an economic and education issue. go fuck yourself. tired of people telling me to go somewhere else - you go somewhere else. Go to China or N Korea if you think this should be public policy. I live here and have every right to be here. I CHOOSE to be here and I will stay and fight ridiculous ideas like yours. immeasurable and undefinable every goal should be 1. definable 2. attainable 3. measurable your ideas are neither of these 3 Nice try. Statistics regarding single teen mothers, and the relationship between progeny and poverty, are publicly available. Their review is left as an exercise to the class. Statistics regarding illegal immigration are publicly available. Their review is left as an exercise to the class. The goals are thus definable and measurable, and the history of motivational regulations indicates they are entirely attainable. The fact that you do not find them palatable is another issue entirely. Your solution is...?

You can read his idea, which is far better than yours here: http://art-bin.com/art/omodest.html We're familiar. Can you come up with a better way to dissuade the indigent from using children as a cash crop, or people relocating to the U.S. outside of existing law?

yes, there are many in fact. the issues you raise are all seemingly valid, even if stats likely do not support all of them. we are overpopulated in the world in general, but jumping to the conclusion that forced sterilization as the probable cure when so many dozens of other things are already proven to be effective is like jumping to the conclusion that god made everything just because we have not explained everything in the universe yet. Reading skills, sir - 'forced sterilization?' My point is that, in order to have someone else shoulder the responsibility for one's self or one's offspring, one need relinquish the prospect of producing further offspring until such time as one can afford the (comparatively inexpensive) reversal procedure. Hardly draconian. If it is so overwhelmingly important to retain near-term breeding capability, that is the option of the individual involved. Obtain support elsewhere. If you are not here legally, a condition for release into the community is, again, to relinquish the capacity to generate offspring through a reversible procedure. If you're not cool with that, fine, you get a free ticket back home. Again, not particularly draconian. There are a lot of places one can go besides the US of A to get relief from the oppressive regime du jour, and if we can persuade you to go there instead, so much the better. The goal is not to sterilize people. It is to get people who can't afford kids to avoid having them, and to encourage people who are seeking a place to go outside of established procedures to pick another destination. In Kennisaw, GA a citizen stormed in to the Sheriff's office and insisted that he would not adhere to the ordinance requiring firearm ownership. The Sheriff said that was fine, the point was not so much that people had to own firearms as to provide the perception that everyone did. If the citizen who objected was working under the assumption that everyone had to be armed, so were the people considering burglary and robbery, and they would likely go somewhere else. The Bouncing Betty was designed by the Germans as a psychological weapon. They found that a mine with a kilo of TNT would vaporize a soldier that stepped on it, but 18 year olds would still take the chance, since they would either luck out or cease to exist instantaneously. However, a small charge designed to go off at testicle height right behind someone, while their legs were spread to take the next step, tended to do no lasting damage other than castration. The same 18 year olds who would grit their teeth and walk through a minefield full of antitank mines would walk for miles around an area suspected of having Bouncing Bettys - which was the goal in the first place. Thus, the goal of my proposal is actually to curtail the FIRST unaffordable child, rather than to prevent further offspring once the commitment to poverty has been made, or to dissuade people from blithely zipping across the border without following procedure. If the recommendation got the attention of the people on this forum, I assure you it would be taken into consideration by people considering these actions. BSBD, Winsor

What you do or do not find palatable has nothing to do with the point. A) There are too many people. B) Fecundity is inversely proportional to affluence. C) To reinforce the cycle of poverty, have kids you can't afford. Repeat as necessary. D) Destitute people coming here illegally and following step C) are not doing themselves any favors. E) Having criteria whereby those who are behind the economic power curve address the issue by curtailing their reproduction is beneficial to everyone involved. If it is important enough for them to go it alone, that's their call. F) If you are insistent upon coming to this country illegally, and consider it important enough to stick around that you give up your ability to have kids, fine. Otherwise, you get to go back home where you retain said freedom. Your call. If you come from a society where you have to have 12 kids for a couple to survive to adulthood and work the farm, that's cool as long as you stay there. That has been shown to work badly here, and the tuition for that lesson is paid in full repeatedly. Do you have a better idea?

If, when LBJ announced the War on Poverty (tm), he had included the caveat that public assistance would not be available to fertile individuals, the rate of poverty today would be a fraction of what it now is. At the present time, reversible sterilization changes the ethical dilemma of reverting to economic Eugenics; if you can afford to reverse the process during your childbearing years, and it is truly that important to you , there is the CHANCE you can afford to raise a kid. If you can't afford the reversal, you sure as hell can't afford more children. I know it sounds harsh, but we do it to other species all the time. Also, if it is so important to breed at the drop of a hat, then by all means accept responsibility for the family you want. If you cannot shoulder the burden of the offspring you have already generated, you should relinquish the opportunity to generate more. If you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em. Along the same lines, people fleeing the political and economic strife in their homeland of Outer Shithole by entering this country without permission could be given the option of either submitting to complimentary reversible sterilization or return to place of origin. Subsequent reentry without permission would remove the optional and reversible part of the deal. The Mitzvah to 'be fruitful and multiply' should include a 'Mission Accomplished' criterion. With all the grousing about population-induced ills, the third rail in the discussion is how to limit the population. In the more successful segments of society, the population is self-limiting. Students at Stanford and Yale do not tend to have anywhere near as many siblings as do kids on the dole. If we are not willing to actively address the fundamental issues we face, we're fucked. Since we are burdened by a surfeit of denial on most of our major concerns, the issue is not so much if as when and how bad. BSBD, Winsor

347 IIRC, but I was a SP-4 by the time I got it (I dropped out of High School and joined when I was 17).

BHO is trying to solve the bathroom "crisis" created by people such as yourself. Just yesterday I realized how much trouble I could have been in had I been in North Carolina. A 5 year old boy in my care HAD to use the loo, and the only one open at the gas station was the ladies' room. As it was, we were able to avoid arrest.

Religion is, by definition, a communicable form of psychosis.

See you and raise you. Al Gore.

The best that could come of this would be if Trump convinced Christie Whitman to be his running mate, got elected, and let her make all the real decisions. Trump would be the ideal person to freak everyone out and take the heat for it, and she would do a great job of actually getting things done. If Douglas Adams' observation that the presidency was too important to give the president any real power was taken to heart, we might have a chance. At this point, however, we are beyond fucked. It was fun while it lasted.

It would be a lot more fun to watch a number of people with viable policies and programs vie for the top slot. The assemblage of cretins, morons and second-raters that has floated to the top like rotting sewage makes it tough to enjoy the process this time around. Hillary is basically Gilbert Gottfried in drag. Trump is not an idiot bully, but he plays one on TV. Sanders is very appealing to anyone who has never been much of anywhere, and never had to balance a checkbook, much less a budget. Since we're beyond the tipping point, we might as well have the most despicable among us at the helm as we slip under. It was fun while it lasted.

Indeed! WHAT THEN? Seriously? Who gives a fuck? Unless anyone hasn't noticed the Olympics mean very little. In fact, the ONLY time the Olympics has ever meant anything at all is when some oppressed group has risen to the occasion and shown themselves to be equal or better than their oppressors. http://www.olympic.org/jesse-owens The Olympics are very important indeed, and have much to do with giving a fuck, as you so tastefully put it.

United Gun Group Auction has the following listing, with a high bid of $63,109,000.00 from "Racist McShootface," so it does not look like George is in for any great windfall on this go around. "Prospective bidders, I am honored and humbled to announce the sale of an American Firearm Icon. The firearm for sale is the firearm that was used to defend my life and end the brutal attack from Trayvon Martin on 2/26/2012. The gun is a Kel-Tec PF-9 9mm. It has recently been returned to me by the Department of Justice. The pistol currently has the case number written on it in silver permanent marker. Many have expressed interest in owning and displaying the firearm including The Smithsonian Museum in Washington D.C. This is a piece of American History. It has been featured in several publications and in current University text books. Offers to purchase the Firearm have been received; however, the offers were to use the gun in a fashion I did not feel comfortable with. The firearm is fully functional as the attempts by the Department of Justice on behalf of B. Hussein Obama to render the firearm inoperable were thwarted by my phenomenal Defense Attorney. I recognize the purchaser's ownership and right to do with the firearm as they wish. The purchaser is guaranteed validity and authenticity of the firearm. On this day, 5/11/2016 exactly one year after the shooting attempt to end my life by BLM sympathizer Matthew Apperson I am proud to announce that a portion of the proceeds will be used to: fight BLM violence against Law Enforcement officers, ensure the demise of Angela Correy's persecution career and Hillary Clinton's anti-firearm rhetoric. Now is your opportunity to own a piece of American History. Good Luck. Your friend, George M. Zimmerman ~Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum~"

Put another way: "The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong. That is, however, the way to bet."

Bernie Sanders

Who runs our nuclear armed military? Oh yes, the government. And they bombed a couple of cities with them just to show that they could do it. Dr. Strangelove was a documentary.

There were rather a few ardent Nazis who were every bit as egalitarian as the muslims you cite. Except there weren't. There were Party members of convenience, but that's not the same thing. Wrong. There were those who were able to rise to levels in the military that would have been impossible under Prussian tradition without a "von" in their name, and they owed it all to the Party. They did not, however, adhere to every tenet of that particular ism. I consider Islam to be significantly more evil than National Socialism, and am less comfortable working with Muslims than Nazis. BSBD, Winsor

There were rather a few ardent Nazis who were every bit as egalitarian as the muslims you cite. That is no recommendation for either hate group.

The problem the anti Muslim crowd have is that now is putting their money where their mouths are. They can talk all they want about the horrors of electing Islamic politicians when their aren't any, but if 4 years of Mayor Khan doesn't turn one of the major western cities into a mini caliphate they really don't want to draw attention to it! Since islam and National Socialism were very much in lock step, the Godwin factor is marginal. National Socialism had an awful lot more to recommend it than does islam and its adherents. In precisely the same sense that card-carrying NSDAP members were often competent engineers, physicians and civil administrators, your odd muslim can turn out to have be quite competent at a variety of things. If he turns out to be a decent mayor, good for him. This has nothing to do with his being a follower of a perverted psychopath. BSBD, Winsor