mustard

So you know you will make a good jump if you are not afraid you will spin? I am sure, then, that you need to have what I call a "magic feather" -- something you can do in case the spin starts again. I am assuming already that you are doing what billvon has suggested: looking in the direction you want to go, over your arm, rather than looking in the direction you are spinning. Another thing: if I had to guess, I would bet that you are rather tall and not very heavy -- because the more arms and legs you have and the less body mass, the more that the tiniest little asymmetry will cause you to turn when you don't mean to. I suspect your legs because they are bigger than your arms, so if the spin begins, stick your legs out like you were getting ready to track, and see if it stops. Then, if it does, you know it's your legs. If it doesn't stop, then bring your arms back like you were going to start to track. Once a spin starts and you don't want to spin, it's really hard to relax everything, but that's just what you need to do. One person mentioned feeling the wind on his legs with light shoes made the difference for him. You will find out what you need, and once you have found your "magic feather" you will never have a problem again with turning. The body just naturally wants to follow your eyes if you are relaxed and having fun. You don't even think about how to get from here to there, you just do it. That is what awaits you! I look forward to hearing what happens next weekend! *** DJan

First of all, you are *not* a bad student. I will tell you a story: a few years ago I had a student who had a spinning problem, worse than yours. He could keep from spinning, like you, unless he did a solo exit. then right on exit he would start to spin and spin until he pulled. He did this on Level 6 maybe 7-8 times, each time it was the same. I had not jumped with him but now it's my turn to see if I can help, so we talked for a long time. He really wanted to stop spinning, but he was expecting it, and he knew he could pull while in a spin, which he did for several jumps in a row. I talked with him and told him about an old trick that used to be taught about how to get out of a spin: go into a track. Forcing your body into a tracking position should stop any and all asymmetries. Well, we went out of the airplane as usual. He went into a spin, and pulled. When we got onto the ground, I asked him why he didn't try to track out of it, and he told me that he didn't even try, once the spin started, he went back to what he knew would stop it: pulling. So I told him we would go back up and repeat it, and he would try to track out of it. I can still see him in my mind leaving the airplane: as usual, he started to spin. I saw him bring his arms back, trying to stop the spin, but it was a struggle. Then his legs came out, and the spin stopped just like magic! He never has spun again, and how he is a coach with lots of jumps. This is a technique you could try, if your JMs think it might work. Frankly, it surprised me how well it worked. And psychologically, if you *think* you are going to spin and you don't know any way to stop it, you will spin. So you need a tool, maybe this will work for you. Talk with your JMs and show them this post. I can also be contacted if they want to talk to me about it. And good luck! This person had 23 jumps, only AFF, before he graduated to solo jumps. You can do it too. *** DJan

I teach the pull/no pull scenario. If you pulled something, and it's not deploying, cut away and pull the reserve. *** DJan

Absolutely. Once you get a lot of jumps under your belt, you get kind of used to the feeling of the bag coming off your back, and then sitting up, and then looking at what you've got overhead. But once in a while a lazy throw will result in *nothing happening* because you threw it into your burble. A couple of times this has happened to me, and I throw, then... nothing. Usually I think OMG and put my hands on my handles, which is enough to get me head down and my main deploys. This happens once you've got enough jumps to forget how important it is to throw that pilot chute like it's a live snake. But then it deploys just like always. I find my adrenaline level to be high enough to have me almost unable to stand up because my knees are shaking when this happens, but then you don't do it again for hundreds or thousands of jumps... *** DJan

Nope, it's still 20 jumps. Come September 30 this year, it will be 25 jumps. You do have to get that proficiency card all filled out, though! *** DJan

Thanks for that! However, I have to say that if I had known, or even had a clue, that this issue would end up being the mess that it's become, I'm not sure I wouldn't have rather stayed anonymous and simply submitted. Bigun (somewhere around these threads) asked me to state, as a public figure, what I *do* stand for. It's become clear to me that I've had a very sheltered life as a skydiver up to this point because of having had the same job for 23 years and up until now not been asked to prove that I am not guilty. But, now that it's happened, I believe that there's a dichotomy between those who are used to being drug tested and those (like me) who are not. I find it personally offensive -- but it's not my livelihood, I have a real job that pays the bills, and I skydive and teach students as a hobby. A very rewarding one, but still not my livelihood. And I have other places where I can teach students. If I owned a DZ or was the manager at one, I think I might do just what Mile Hi is doing, given today's political climate. But I can also state that I don't want to submit to drug testing and should be allowed to object and not just submit to something I find offensive. It's my right, as Hook stated. Why am I now being persecuted for that stand? That's what I don't understand. What's happening here? This firestorm is finally beginning to die down. Hopefully we can all get together and make a jump and smile at each other in freefall. That's why I do this, because my fellow skydivers are the best -- but we come from such diverse background that I suspect we need something to bring us together in a common goal, as Sangiro has done here with DZ.com. Let's keep on with that spirit and not attack each other for diverse viewpoints. Whaddya say? *** DJan

Hi Tweaked, I had to go through the course twice before I could pass it, and I found it to be the hardest thing in skydiving I had ever done. Now, though, I've been an AFF evaluator for a couple of courses and can tell you that you can't go wrong looking at this guide that Rick Horn has used for ages: http://rickhorn.com/affpc.pdf It's a PDF file, so I hope you can download one. PM me if you need help opening it. It will certainly start you in the right direction. Good luck! BTW, there will be a course (and a pre-course, which I cannot recommend highly enough) at Mile Hi Skydiving in Colorado in mid-May. See the rating calendar on USPA's website for further info. *** DJan

Jeremy, you're a lot younger than I am (you may have noticed :-) Because of that, I figure once you get to my age you'll have opinions based on experience, as I do. It seems to me that if you are thinking that my stand against random drug testing shows that I am against safety, then there's something really really wrong here. One day far in the future you may look back at these times and notice that America took a turn toward a police state somewhere around the end of the twentieth century. This may actually be OK with you, because you come from a different era than me; you are used to surveillance and piss testing, but I'm not. One thing that I will always cherish is the freedom of expression and the freedom of choice that we have in America. My choice comes from deeply held convictions. Basically I don't have to submit. I have choices here, too. I will continue to support Mile Hi, but not as an instructor. I will continue to pay attention to significant and relevant issues in skydiving, especially in our region, because it means everything to me to make a difference in the skydiving culture, however small. This is one way I choose to make a difference, by standing up to a rule that is personally offensive to me. Hope this helps you to understand. *** DJan

Bummer! I was there that day, and I remember that the winds were getting weird late in the day. It sounds like you hit harder than you thought, I've done that too. You are a good canopy pilot from what I've seen, so it's good to hear that your basic "can't possibly get hurt" philosophy was tempered without anything much happening to you. Man, this weather does suck, doesn't it? I'm looking out at 20-degree grey skies, and I was going to be doing video today! *** DJan

I totally agree with not chewing gum. Imagine a student opening his/her mouth and then choking on it. Yikes! I don't let my students do it. I have heard several students complain about not being able to breathe in freefall, which always puzzles me since I've never experienced it. Tend to think it must be mental, as pointed out here. I also tell students to take a deep breath and then let it out on exit. It's great to see a student doing that, and I've got nothing but good feedback from that technique. Exiting the airplane tends to make people very tense. Then if you're holding your breath, maybe you have a visceral reaction when your body says you've got to take a breath and you notice you're not breathing? Anybody got any ideas about this? *** DJan

That was a wonderful description, billvon, of why you skydive. Everything you said resonated with me. I never had dreams about flying, as some have said in here, but I think that was because I was raised believing I am smaller than I really am -- that reaching for the sky was beyond me. And I bought it, as a woman growing up in the days of Leave It to Beaver, I thought my role was growing up and getting married, having lots of kids, baking bread, and basically not reaching up for anything, just take care of everybody else. Skydiving changed my life in so many ways, but the biggest way it changed is that I was empowered by that first tandem in a way that I've seen others be empowered when you skydive. And no, I cannot tell anybody who is not a skydiver exactly *why* I skydive, but every skydiver who reads my words knows why. Now I have thousands of jumps. I am younger in my heart now than when I started jumping, and I keep myself fit so that I can continue to skydive and help others through the narrow doorway of skydiving for as long as I can. Skydiving images are so powerful to me now: I was waffling about going to the DZ today because it's cold and supposed to get cloudy. Skratch looked out the door and up in the sky and said, "they're out!" And even though I knew nobody was jumping and he was kidding me, I felt the power of those words, they spoke to me, a skydiver. There's no doubt that when I was in my twenties and thirties I was a skydiver in my heart, but I didn't know it and didn't know how to reach out of my humdrum life. Then one day I saw somebody jump out of an airplane at an air show, land in front of me like a bird, barefoot and smiling. I made a tandem... and the rest is history. *** DJan

I notice that on the first release dive (usually 6), students tend to get a little freaked out about not having somebody holding onto them, and try to "swim" (read: flail) a little bit upon exit. If you trust your body position, then even if you get a little unstable at exit, it will settle out. I suggest that if you are "floating" (which simply means hanging on outside the airplane), take your forward leg off the step so that you'll catch the air, look toward the prop as you leave, and then as you leave the airplane, take a DEEEP BREATH and let it out, then look at your alti. By the time that's done, you should have regained stability. Let me know if it works. As you're quickly finding out, tension doesn't help us skydive well. Pretty soon you may find that you actually *like* to have unstable exits. *** DJan

AND he was under a big canopy, I think it was a Triathlon 190 -- and he still died. *** DJan

So he told me, probably 3 times, that if I did happen t "Don't," he said, "Don't stop your pull to go back and wave off." Naturally, 5500 hit, and I reached for the ripcord, touched it and thought, "Damn, I'm supposed to wave off!" Waved off and pulled. I was quite surprised he passed me. That's so funny! When going through the AFF certification course, the Course Director will mention how much more efficient it is to suggest what you *should* do and avoid the use of the word "don't" because it almost always ends up with the student doing what you did. If someone says, "don't think about [whatever]," it's almost impossible to get your unconscious mind to think about anything else! With students, I usually say, "if you forget to wave, just keep going to the pull, that's what's the important part anyway, not the wave." And sometimes they wave, and sometimes they don't, but they (almost) always pull. *** DJan

Some JMs do get a bit carried away with "helping" a student, so it's a fine line as to whether to put a hand on the handle, but if somebody's looking for it, and I'm right there (shadowing the pull), then I can help if it's needed. I do know some very bullheaded instructors who think it's their job to muscle the student's hand onto the handle. But frankly, that's the exception. Most JMs really want to see the student pull on their own, with their own awareness. Makes for a *lot* less anxiety on subsequent jumps. I'm sure you did a lot more right than just pull, but that is the most important part of freefall. *** DJan

I think it's smart to go bigger rather than smaller when you don't have many jumps. I know I put 400 jumps on a PD 210 (and I weigh about the same as you) and I made some very stupid moves under than canopy. If I had been under something smaller, I probably would have hurt myself. As it was, I got away with it. Now I jump a Sabre2 135, and I love it. But it is definitely not the forgiving canopy I had in my early jumping days. For you, a 170 is perfectly fine. People who counsel others to go smaller are usually just not thinking of the learning curve. They already learned it (maybe) and forget that others haven't. In skydiving, this is a dangerous trend, but I don't think it's done out of malice, just ignorance. Which kills people just as dead as malice aforethought. *** DJan

I had to laugh when I read the above. I cannot tell you how many times I have seen 3 perfect PTs, and then when it comes to pull time, grab, grobe, panic! And sometimes I cannot help the student find the P/C because all that adrenaline sets in and makes them impossible to (a) control, and (b) help with the pull. Then I need to pull, and the student does the level again. We only have 2 chances to see good body position if they pass the first 2 levels. Sometimes I cut a student slack if I see that they were altitude aware on his/her own awareness and then justs cannot find it. But if the knees are dropped and they go head down groping for that handle, I cannot in good conscience expect to hand this student over to the next JM and say they did good. *** DJan

"Coaching" for the ISP ostensibly means those who are still students and who have not yet earned a license. However, Riddler's point is a good one, as is Yorkster's. If someone is off student status (i.e., has an A license), they still need to work on their skills, and this is a perfect situation for a junior coach. Work it out with the person as to who pays for the jump. If you are just going out to watch them and don't actually end up spending much time on the jump, it could be that you end up paying your own slot. Skratch does this all the time -- he's going out to lurk a big-way or just look at the scenery, and there's a young jumper on the load. He ends up establishing a rapport with the person, and they jump together. This starts a relationship. *Then* you can decide if a coach jump is appropriate, and they buy your slot. I myself feel that you need to be very up front with someone who is buying your slot. Remember that most of the time they don't have gear, so they end up on a solo jump paying $45 for it. Add in a coach's slot and it's $65. Add to that the $10 for your time, and it's a $75 jump. Now it could be worth it to him/her, or not. Depends on the coach, how much you teach and how you debrief and follow through. Some coaches in Colorado get many more than 15/year -- and some don't get any. You don't have to get paid for the jump, or even jump with an actual student, to call it a coach jump. Coach somebody who needs it (and we all can use help in the early days). Mark it in your logbook as a coach jump, and when you get renewed, you shouldn't have any problem showing 15. The younger a coach is in the sport, the harder it is for him/her to feel their own worth to another. I have no problem saying up front, this is what we will do, this is what my time costs. But then again, I've got more than 3K and almost a thousand jumps with students. When I had your number of jumps, I was looking for people to pay for coaching! So, times are changing. You will learn from each coach jump you make, and by the time you are ready for renewal, you will be a different person. You'll know what you teach well, what you need to improve, and with each jump, if you are honest with yourself, you should see improvement in both the coach and the coachee! If USPA had wanted to have already developed coaches, they wouldn't simply require 100 jumps and a course. You'll see! And I hope, really hope, you have fun doing this. That way, you'll transfer that joy to those you jump with. *** DJan

I've seen more than a few jumpers who decided to go professional end up being crappy instructors because suddenly it was a full-time job and not fun anymore. I really have to watch it, since I put maybe a third of my jumps with students. And when it get to be much more than that, I'm not as effective, or having as much fun. Skratch calls it making sure I get my "nutritional" jumps, ones that nourish me and have nothing to do with making a living. *** DJan

Well, there are good coaches, not so good coaches, and then there are the ones who think they should be coaches, go through the course, and don't bother to apply what they learned. They don't usually (I'm finding, as a Coach Course Director) renew their rating after finding that it really isn't just free slots -- it is work to teach somebody something they don't know already. And if the *coach* doesn't know it, they just make a bad name for others. It doesn't take long for the newbies to figure out which coaches are worth the money and which aren't. *** DJan

I remember when I first started. It was in the fall, early winter in Colorado. And I was so afraid that if I went uncurrent, I would quit, because the fear gets so huge when you haven't made a jump recently. So I jumped every weekend, or every other weekend at the outside, and made 300 jumps my first year. It was an obsession, but I also knew that if I got far enough away from jumping, I might not come back. That didn't seem to be an option, because skydiving was like the shot in the arm that all of get once in awhile, falling in love, taking up skydiving, it's all the same life-changing event. Now I'm 60. Wow, how did that happen? I was minding my own business and here came skydiving and changed everything forever! I don't know when I will have to stop jumping, but I hope it's not for a while. I'm having *way* too much fun! *** DJan

Please remember that the 170 is the much better choice with your number of jumps that then 150. You can get a smaller one later. But give yourself more leeway with the bigger canopy. I jumps at 4000, 5000, and 6500, I weigh 125 lbs with 3100 jumps and am very happy to have the extra canopy over my head when it's 90 degrees F outside with no wind. And remember the 170 will be very easy to resell when you are ready to downsize. OK? No 150 will take care of those times when you find yourself in a bad situation. The 170 will help with that!! *** DJan

Well, I've got more than a hundred jumps on my Sabre2, but I still miss the Spectre pack jobs: I could trash pack that think and it still opened on heading and soft. My Sabre2 is very sensitive to packing errors. Other than that, though, I love my Sabre2 and wouldn't go back. *** DJan

Well said. I think the new Coach Course is a pretty good way to find out how to teach skydiving. But some people go through the course and are not any better at teaching, partly because they don't put into practice what they learned. Teaching anything well, it seems to me, comes from a desire to reach the student with important knowledge. It makes me really happy to see somebody "get it," and I try to figure out what worked and why, so I can help the next person more effectively. *** DJan

Totally cool! Even though I have a S/L instructor rating, I went through AFF. I've only made one S/L and that was to get that rating. I only had two graduates in one year, since almost everyone else went AFF (as did I at the same DZ). Then I moved on to get an AFF rating. There haven't been a lot of S/Ls in my area, a few from the FJC course but then they move on to AFF if they want to progress. I loved hearing all the little details, so don't stint on those, thinking you are getting too long. What you remember and wrote about tell me so much about your progress, and it makes me thrilled for you. Whatever way a person can progress through, you've already made it, so what does it matter? But I loved hearing a true story from a S/L student who is in love with skydiving and is continuing. "Bluefingers?" Is there a story there I missed? *** DJan