mustard

Oh yeah, Winsor, and don't forget your slot! Find out exactly where you're supposed to be on the dive, right? It helps if you can fly as well as Winsor, too!! When the entire dive built and he looked around at where he was supposed to be, he moved pretty quick!! *** DJan

I actually don't favor a check dive at this time because I cannot see how it can be done equitably. I cannot figure out how to implement it without all the problems mentioned earlier becoming impediments to a fair evaluation. The best kinds of program changes come from the grassroots, and I really like the idea Jan put forth about some DZO deciding to use a check dive as a marketing ploy. Then others will see it and if it is actually helpful, it will multiply. I'm convinced this problem is smaller than 5-20%, and that there are many DZs that have no problem with their instructors at all. Out of the 18 AFF instructors at Mile Hi, there are only two I can think of who might need it, and it's really because they don't work with AFFs that often. I'm sure that if they prepared for a check dive they would do fine. So -- again we have no solution for the problem, which seems to me should be addressed locally, bottom-up, rather than top-down (from USPA). I learned last year that I cannot simply state my opinions as a private skydiver because of having been elected to the BOD. However, that said, I am a civil libertarian who believes deeply that mandatory drug testing is a violation of civil rights. I also believe that a DZO needs to know and trust his staff, and then any questionable staff member can be cut loose. *** DJan

OK, I apologize for using the phrase "a lot" because that's not fair and not descriptive. But it does happen. It happens when people are independent contractors who make just barely enough money to get by and consequently shortchange the student because they have other students waiting for them. Realistically, this shouldn't happen. The student should get whatever time and energy he or she requires, but I myself sometimes have to make a choice between a student who requires lots of continuing instruction and those who have waited around all day and I know will do well if given a chance to skydive. It also comes from burnout, which I'm sure you have seen with instructors who work all the time and can no longer get themselves excited about an endless stream of students needing instruction. Instructors are people, and people do this without realizing it. I didn't mean to slam anybody. It's an observation from ten years of teaching and watching others teach. Instructors check in to see how long before the First Jump Course will be done in order to line up Instructors. This is normal, but as you know we have to teach to the slowest student in an FJC, and so often the class is later than at other times. Ground preparation is, in my opinion, the most important part of the skydive. If the student gets good instruction on the ground, and it is imparted to them so that they "get it," they mostly do well in the air. *** DJan

Excellent point. What we successfully teach them on the ground will be reflected in the air. However, that said, I eyeball my student carefully and watch what they do on the ground, and if I am taking out a Cat D and that student is 6 feet tall and weighs 160 lbs (for instance), I am going to be extra vigilant and "dress for success" by wearing my slowest falling suit. I've had them spin away from me in a heartbeat. Now if I have prepared my student for the eventuality of loss of control, I can expect correct response before I have to correct them myself. Most students do fine when given the chance to learn. If a JM is all over the student before they've had a chance to learn on their own, in my opinion the student has been cheated. It's a fine line, Mark, but at our DZ, the new AFF instructors all seem to think their student is going to be like the evaluator in the course. They haven't yet learned the difference. All the skill in the world cannot make up for experience that is only learned through doing the real thing. The new AFF instructors at our DZ are learning by mentoring by the more experienced instructors. Ground training of the student varies considerably depending on the instructor, but everybody has a different technique that works well for him/her. The biggest problem is the "revenue unit" mindset that a lot of DZOs and instructors have who want to make as much money as possible. This leads to students and instructors learning poorly. *** DJan

I agree. Jan and I have both been asking and checking out what options there might be in order to make a recommendation at the next BOD meeting in July. We have at Mile Hi a sudden surplus of AFF I's. In past years, those of us with ratings have worked whether we wanted to or not, but right now Mile Hi has 18 current AFF instructors. And now we are fighting for the AFF business. I have never before seen this problem! The DZO can pick and choose who works each weekend. In a way, this is similar to DZs that have low demand and small staff: how to keep current enough to be safe? You cannot do AFF once in a while and do it well. When I have had a layoff for whatever reason, I limit myself to "klingon" skydives until I feel up to speed. (That's Cat A and B or Levels 1 and 2). Then I move to the scary ones, Cats C and D, which are the ones tested at AFF certification courses, the first release dives, because a student can do anything and you need to be skilled enough to help. However, that said, I believe that the best instructors have the fewest rollovers and student deployments, because they have successfull taught the student these maneuvers on the ground. The student then puts these into practice. I know an AFF I who says it has been five years since he has had to roll a student over, and two years since he's had to pull for a student. So how could he have video of a successfull rollover, etc.? Just because he did his job well he should not be penalized by having to show video that he did it! The current AFF I's that I work with feel that the DZ should be the one to filter out the weak links, by putting them in situations with current instructors. I agree with Buzz that if we require this from *every* instructor, no matter how current, it is swatting a fly with a sledgehammer. How about this: we require some check ride system every couple of years for those who do not do more than, say, 50 AFF jumps/year? Since the standard is very low (15), could we have a system of checks and balances that is agreed upon by instructors.? Just wondering and anxious to hear what instructors think. On top of all these AFFs, we have another certification course happening next weekend in the area, and I spent some jumps helping a candidate get ready for his course. It was good for me -- and I wonder how we can certify people to be the ones to say, "you're still good enough to take out AFFs." *** DJan

Edited: I got to jump with two of you guys, BoostedXT and n32X (one was graduation from AFF, the other licensed). Boosted: what absolute fun! Glad you got your solo too. N23X: Aha! So you posted all that about your A license jump! Yes, I was also relieved when I saw your opening, but the difference is that I *knew* it was going to open. I have to say, your grin in freefall belied the terror you must have been feeling about opening. It's funny, when we're in freefall, all that other stuff just goes away until it's time... It was as much fun for me as it was for you. Lovely, fun, actually privileged to be the one to make you a licensed skydiver! Thanks, Jim!! Next weekend I buy, OK? *** DJan

It's funny that you had 666 this weekend. I was out at Brush on Sunday, and Roger (a jumper whose last name I don't know) got us all together for his 666th jump, which we made, with a plan to make 6 points on a 6-way on his 666th jump. He said if we got it, he would buy all the slots. Well, it was fun, but one person went low on the first point, so he smilingly said it saved him $140! We had fun though. *** DJan

See my thread on "Reline on a Sabre2" somewhere in this forum. I had off-heading openings without much end cell closure until I got a reline. Now it's a different canopy altogether. I haven't got enough jumps on the "new" canopy to say whether I like it or not, but the landings are much improved. I had lost full flight because of brake line shrinkage. Now I have end cell closure like crazy. But I do have to say that the off-heading openings improved a lot once I had 100 jumps on the canopy and it wasn't so slippery any more. *** DJan

Oh, I can make it inflate all right. But I have to work at it. While I was getting the work done on my canopy, I jumped a Spectre 150, loaded at 1:1. At first it felt like I was driving a truck instead of a sedan, but over 20 jumps I learned that I could land that canopy on a dime in no winds, high winds, all kinds of conditions. It always opened reliably, on heading, and could float on rear risers forever! And then back to the Sabre2. And a new canopy. It was PD that relined it and inspected it, and changed the lines from less than full flight to very loose brake lines. I actually like the landings better, because I had gotten used to a shorter line set, so now I take a wrap and look at the brake lines as I'm getting ready to land, and boy they respond much much stronger and better. What I notice most is that the partial/half flare brings the canopy to a full planing out position, whereas the previous line set wasn't as obvious. So I just stop the flare when I'm planing out, and ... hey, is *this* what those guys do when they are swooping? This is fun! *** DJan

I now have 4 jumps on my relined Sabre2. It originally had 550 jumps, and although I loved lots of things about it, I really didn't like the off-heading openings. Once it got a couple hundred jumps on it, it calmed down a lot. And I decided to send the canopy in for a reline. Then I got a call from PD: what could have damaged (contaminated) your canopy? You've got some *bad* damage here. It turns out it was probably fertilizer from a nearby field in March when I landed out and slipped and slid all the way to the DZ, getting some nasty stuff on my canopy on the way. I thought it was mud, and I didn't worry much about it. But I had noticed for a couple months that my brake lines had shrunk so much that I no longer had full flight. Time for a reline and a canopy inspection. So now my canopy is back, with 4 jumps on it, two packed by my favorite packer, two by me. It has one complete topskin on #8 cell, two rather large patches, and new lines. I jumped it yesterday. Whoa! Not the same animal at all! This is what I notice the most: on heading openings. Not only on heading, but S-L-O-W, with the slider creeping down the lines. But I am pleased, the flare is much better, much more responsive, and boy am I happy. What a difference! What a different canopy! The openings are like butter. But with MY pack job today, my first one I thought was going to have to chop: only the center cells inflated. Not only the end cells are not inflated, but neither are the ones next to them. The canopy is in a turn, and I am losing altitude like crazy! So I grabbed the brakes and pulled them down, let them up, and the canopy is normal. I've lost a couple of grand during this experience, I am at 1800 feet and decide I'm OK. So I pack it again, worry and worry, but everything was OK. Again I opened on heading, soft, slider came down, but the end cells are definitely nowhere near inflating, so I worked with it. I can live with this, but what I'm wondering is, is this normal with a reline? The canopy lands differently, flies different, and DEFINITELY opens differently. I'm going to grab the rear risers next jump, ready for anything, and open a little high. Any suggestions here? The only other canopy I jumped long enough to need a reline was a Spectre, and it didn't perform any differently after the reline. The Sabre2 135 I'm loading at 1.15 is like a totally different canopy. *** DJan

And for heaven's sake don't pack it for a slow opening. Spectres can take more than 1K feet to open. I always ask the packers, and me, for a brisk opening, which with a spectre usually means 500-700 feet! *** DJan

That's funny, Mary, that you remember that moment, because I sure do too! That was the first time I had ever heard that line and I was astonished at your panache. And Jack! He would go out on the coldest day of the year and do his swimsuit jump, and I will *never* forget the first time I saw that! *** DJan

Yeah! That's one big reason I love to teach: the contact high I get from the students. I have experienced it again and again. And Kaylyn, thank you so much for your kind words (above). I really am amazed at how much good has already come out of the thrash we've been going through. Every once in a while I think I hear in the distance that unmistakable laugh of Jeff's echoing through the hangars... Years ago, 13 of them now, I began jumping at Loveland. One of the people who inspired me back then was Mary. I remember her family coming up to the DZ (the kids were little then) and wondering how I would ever fit in to the skydiving scene. People all seemed to be in their own cliques. But Mary let me jump her rig (it was a PD 210!) and I was overwhelmed by her generosity. To me it was a huge deal; to her, she was helping a newbie. I am amazed at how the smallest little thing of reaching out to another at the DZ can be interpreted as a major affirmation by the recipient. Getting outside of my own bubble of concern and empathizing with the journey of another has always made me feel better about things. There will always be people at the DZ who are less experienced than we are, who think they don't fit in because they can't [fill in the blank], who will someday look back and laugh at their early days in the sport. sdgregory, I truly hope this will happen to you. *** DJan

Hi mailin, I know it might be construed as being sexist, but I think women have a much harder time landing canopies and feeling comfortable under a parachute. I started jumping 13 years ago, and everybody would come out to watch me land -- for entertainment -- because I could not figure out landing patterns, or any way to land except in a cloud of dust. I never got the hang of PLFs because I never had my "landing gear" under me: they were always out in front of me. What helped me get more comfortable under canopy was (1) once I was on final, I would say it out loud: "get my landing gear under me" and feel my legs relax downward. (2) Put my ankles together. (3) Start the flare and *trust* that it would stop my forward speed. (4) Be ready to tuck and roll. (5) Flare all the way down! And you know what? I eventually (and I am talking a thousand jumps here) got comfortable under canopy. I remember so vividly a day when I had a wonderful skydive, and I opened up and there over my head was my friend, my beautiful canopy. I looked around and saw snow-capped mountains and gorgeous clouds, and I could not have been happier. I watched the canopies below me land, studied the wind sock, set up and landed like a feather in the middle of the peas. This only came about because I kept at it. I never stopped jumping because I couldn't land like the cool ones. If you keep at it, this will happen to you, too. And you won't have to wait for thousands of jumps, because you are getting help right now when you need it. Nobody helped me because I wasn't help-able back then. *** DJan

Oh man! I was really happy to get him into the peas to teach PLFs! Those military guys have taught me a lot. This guy just started AFF last weekend. Says his wife is happy to find out he's taking up something safer -- he's parachuted at night into Iraq at 800 feet. And he's probably going to be done with AFF before the week is out. *** DJan

At Mile Hi we usually jump a King Air with some hefty engines and 5-foot wing extensions. It climbs to altitude at 5K field elevation really fast. We also have a turbo 206 that we take up during the week or when overloaded in the summer with tandems. It takes us a *whole lot* longer to get to 11,500 AGL in that 206 than it takes us to get to 12,500 AGL in the King Air. I would definitely recommend turbo just to make it to 10,500 in 15-20 minutes. It's that last 1000 feet that take forever. I can hardly wait to jump at Moab! I hear from everyone who's been there that it's spectacular scenery. *** DJan

I stand corrected. I was informed that the SIM states that, although there was a time when only freefall jumps counted toward a license, in the 2004 SIM, on page 12, the requirement for an A License reads simply "completed 25 jumps" without specifying freefall jumps. For license purposes and rating prerequisites, static line and tandem jumps count as jumps, and droguefall counts as freefall. I am sorry to say that I have as recently as this past weekend discounted S/L jumps toward an A license. Now I have a question, since this student had 125 S/L jumps in the military, once he finishes his AFF training proficiency card, he is good to go for an A? *** DJan

Hi Kramer, The S/L jumps do not count toward your 25 jumps for your A license. They are considered a parachute jump but not freefall jumps. But any tandems you do definitely count toward that license. *** DJan

I found myself hesitating about reading this, because I knew I would have to think about it -- but I did, and I was very happy to see Brian's comments, and others, since this issue of dealing with upper winds is huge in Colorado. Anyway, I read it, and laughed and puzzled about what to do in strong uppers. I told Skratch that hopefully some brilliant new minds out there will figure it out and share it! *** DJan

I have a Sabre2 135 loaded 1:1.1. Now that I've got 500 jumps on it, I have an occasional off-heading opening. But when it was new, I really had to fight with it: off-heading openings, usually 180 to 360, then a dive, sometimes one way, sometimes the other. I tried everything with packing, and found that folding 4 cells inward on each side and opening the center cell, leaving the slider quartered and pulled out slightly more towards the nose helped a whole lot. Now it's simmered down to the point that a seriously off-heading opening is rare and gets my attention. I love the landings and control characteristics. When it goes in for new lines, I hope it won't come back ornery again! *** DJan

Whoa! I'm being brought up in this thread! You know why I broke my pelvis at 2400+ jumps? Because I learned to fly a canopy back when nobody was taught anything, and I didn't even *like* to fly a canopy. It was a necessary adjunct to freefall. So, in essence, I really never learned to fly it. I learned to do what was safe and predictable, and never once (this is a true statement) flew in deep brakes with thousands of jumps. I just zoomed around to lose altitude, usually trying to stay out of the way of other canopies. Why? Because I wasn't canopy savvy and had too much experience and too many jumps for anybody to walk up to me and say anything about my lack of canopy awareness. I was lucky. I didn't die, but I learned a very hard lesson: learn to fly your canopy in all circumstances and in all control modes *before* you need them. I am now a good canopy pilot, not great, I never will be an intuitive pilot. But I know what my front & rear risers do, what deep brakes will do, what situations call for me to do UP HIGH, not just before impact. I would never have taken it upon myself to teach anybody canopy flight before my accident. In order to come back into the sport, I had to humbly admit to myself what I didn't know. I had to learn it at least well enough to keep from hurting myself that bad again, because I knew I would not survive another one of those. But now, guess what, I teach canopy control to newbies. Not advanced canopy flight, but survival skills that I didn't have then but now I do. The desire behind my eyes to save my friends from my fate helps them to listen to me. Now, after reading all the WL Take 4 posts, I've wondered how Derek's ideas could be implemented. I believe that whatever happens, it must be gradual and incremental. A WL BSR doesn't fix things, it just makes a rule that tries to make people stop hurting themselves. Slow and steady, with lots of input from the jumpers. Isn't this just what USPA has begun to do with its new SIM recommendations? And USPA did this because of your letters and emails to them. They recognized the need and put forth a recommendation that can take form through forums like this one. *** DJan

I voted for Instructors myself, but wondered if it would be a good idea to have a place for dialog between instructors and students, rather than a separate forum for each. I like the fact that the forums get separated out, and find that since my time is limited, I go to "Incidents" first because it has the fewest new posts and read what's on there, then move to "Safety & Training" and if I still have some time, on to "General Skydiving" -- and I leave "Talk Back" and those hugely popular places alone. But that's just me. *** DJan

Pops walked into Tent 3 the day he died, just to say hello to all of us he had jumped with the year before. He made at least 25 jumps in Tent 3 in 2002 but "graduated" to Tent 1 in 2003. He spread out his canopy and began packing it, when Lee from Lodi jumped on Pops' back and hugged and kissed him (much to Pops' disgust, although he took it well). Later I realized what a wonderful last memory Lee has of Pops, and that his last interaction with him was so positive. Pops was a very special person, and he touched so many of us with his humor, wit, and generally all around good vibes. He will be missed as long as we are around to miss him. My sincere condolences to his friends, family, and skydiving community. *** DJan

Well, I've been working at actual work too long -- looking at this thread and see I'm still not on it, and I'm running Tent 4!!! Add Mustard onto the list, please! *** DJan

Tipping for AFF is much less common than for tandem, but that said, I received two tips from AFF students this last weekend. It is a wonderful feeling to be recognized, and tipping has that effect. i got a $20 from one student, and $10 from another. But even though I've done more than 50 students so far this year, those were only the second and third tips I've received since January. Your AFF instructor doesn't expect it -- which is one reason why it's so lovely when it happens. *** DJan