Treejumps

No implication of a seedy cover up. Sorry if it sounded that way. Truly just very surprised that this was the cause. BSBD

No offence is intended anywhere with regards to Paul's incident. It sucks when someone goes in but I find it far more tragic when it is something so preventable. I was truly shocked to hear the about the pullup cord/PC. I thought after the rubberband incident (disputed or not it certainly brought that issue to the forefront) that the practive of using anything (OK, a clamp would be damn hard to leave on and stuff in you pouch) to constrict a PC for stowing would have been considered bad juju, and abandoned by at all. I guess with the constantly growing number of new folks getting in the sport and the further and further distillation of knowledge that even simple things like this are still going to be out there, and worse yet, taught to some unknowing student. Unlike the random "shit hapens" 180, bad opening, or unstable launch, this incident is 100% preventable by some very easily learned and practiced techniques.

Littlestranger. PM me for details. There is a dispute as to the previous one, but if you saw the video it would be quite conclusive to you.

Hey Elliot, Paranoia will keep you alive; crazy, but alive.

I just read on Blinc that Paul's pullup around his PC was the cause of this fatality. This is the second fatility due to people using an assistant (rubber band, pullup) to pack a PC. If you must use something, use a clamp. Frankly, you don't need anything other than your own 2 hands to pack a perfect pud. If you can't pack that way I'll be glad to teach you. This isn't that difficult folks: Dont put anything around you PC that if you forget, will kill you. To the folks teaching people this method: STOP! It just killed again. How lame are you that you need a crutch to perform the simplest of tasks.

Wow Jimmy, that is really cool. Do you have her little sister lined up for your next target, uhh, "student"? At 17 she's a little long in the tooth for you though. I heard to be really rad these days you had to have a 15 year old girlfriend.

Sorry to hear that it happened, but cleary surprise is not one of my reactions.

Because a tailgate doesn't affect a slider up deployment? As I acknowledged above, I understand that there are folks who believe that the TG is beneficial on slider ups. I can't see it hurting anything, but the slider is there to reef the canopy, and the TG as a backup isn't going to do a better job than the slider. Or did you mean the false sense of security? A false sense of security is better than none at all. (this nugget of wisdom courtesy of Yuri) Cya

Any security would be a false sense of, which is better than nothing, but in reality it won't help. If its your gear though, do as you wish. Cya

Finally some drama to break up the monotony of Just Another Annoying Poll.

The tailgate was designed for slider down deployments. It has no real effect (although some have started putting it on for good measure) on slider up deployment. Are you really having that much trouble keeping the lines in the middle, or are you just worried about a random line over?

Is that real? We should hand them out to business owners in Oak Hill & Fayetteville.

This has got to be one of the worst polls ever. Are you sure Jaap didn't steal your log on on write that?

Speakinig of the TF Chamber of Commerce, have you seen their 2006 publication "Images"? It has a jumper (sort of, it's Heather Singleton) on the cover and a very nice article about the growing popularity of base in TF. Very nice to have a town that appreciates us. Cya

Labor day is no good. Thats the day you aren't supposed to labor. Memorial day on the other hand fits in perfectly with the Manship Memorial Ironbase Comp idea. Besides, Ironbase is all about jumping rain or shine. Strong winds? Suck it up and jump. Anyone can jump hard in nice weather, isn't this Ironbase? You can do Tutubase comp on Labor Day for the softies. Of course this has nothing to do with the fact that the entire local crew is already booked to out there on May 24 - 29, nothing at all. If it works out for Mem. day weekend I'll be glad to give a trash packing seminar for those needing to trim some time off thier packjob. It will only last 10 minutes though. Cya

Amen to slider up.

I really wanted to let this thread die, but I had to post JS's velcor article from their technicle archives. This is from 2000. High cycle/Low tenacity Velcro has an average life span of 700 jumps vs. 300 jumps for tuck tabs used in the same application. Not only does Velcro outlast the average tuck tab - it's easier and less expensive to replace. Most importantly, Velcro opens when it's supposed to, and will not hinder square reserve bag extraction as some tuck tab designs do. Riser cover tabs and stiffeners can snag lines, cause uneven riser deployment and spin deployment bags resulting frequently in line twists and malfunctions. Recent field reports indicate that Riser Cover Tuck Tabs are a major cause of eliptical canopys spinning up on opening requiring a cutaway. Tuck tabs are acceptable in certain applications - but inappropriate in many others. Change for the sake of marketing purposes is unwise to say the least, when it affects the integrity and functionality of life saving equipment. Re-examine the New Velcro - it works. This is the best part: "Change for the sake of marketing purposes is unwise to say the least, when it affects the integrity and functionality of life saving equipment." I bet you all didn 't realize that velcor lasted 700 jumps and that all your tuck tabs were worn out after only 300. Shucks, both my rigs have over 1000 jumps on them, and I didn't even realize my tuck tabs were worn out. I guess because they never open accidentally and never require maintenance I didn't notice. I haven't changed Mike's mind and he hasn't chnaged mine, but I think this thread has been very useful for a lot of jumpers who maybe don't take the time to learn about their gear. Its important to undestand what you are jumping and the implications of a new piece of gear. Opinions do vary, so know what they are and which ones you believe. Your life depnds on it. Cya

The information that you are failing to consider is that as a result of the breaking strength of a stow band where the bag lock can stay that way, rubber bands fail and allow the bag to open because the pilot chute has four times the pulling force of the failure point of the rubber bands. If that always happens then why do people experience bag locks on main bags? Are you saying that nobody ever has baglocks? Yes, even with rubber bands people have baglocks. If a rubberband knot is locking a bag shut, then the force pulling on the band is distributed on both sides of the knot, doubling the breaking force. *** Wow, so much for things like the skyhook, HMA lines etc. being substantiated then. Guess all of the major manufactures need to hire you as a consultant since they are not doing that? I'm not sure what you are saying here Mike. You suugested that I post data of whatever tests I had done. I suggested to you that it isn't I who needs to prove anything, as I am not trying to convince skydivers that I came up with a new reserve bag design that is safer than existing designs, claiming that same existing designs is unsafe, and that everyone should take my word for it because my tests, performed solely by me prove I'm right. If JS had anything to really back this up there would be proof (data, videos, something). So far all there is are just unsubstantiated claims. Where are the side by side test videos of a high speed deployment where the safety stow results in a bag strip and the speedbag saves the day? Do they exist? Other than the 2 incidents listed which don't even mention a bag strip, there is nothing that suggests that the saftey stow is anything but reliable. JS, and you, are basically asserting that safety stows are unsafe and that the speedbag solves the shortcoming. To date this assertion is completley gratuitous. When you can prove that, and I seriously doubt it can be, I look forward to hearing from you.

Mike, Just because you will not acknowledge the added risk does not mean that it is not there. You do a good job avoinding the real issue, which isn't factory testing or whether I have done testing. The real issue is that a speedbag has 10X the lock potential of a safetystow bag. No testing needed to make that observation. Its simply numbers. If it can happen it will, sooner or later. Neither you or I have posted industry acceptable test data, but since you have brought up the topic of test data, were is JS's to support the claims they (you) make about this design. Assuming I know nothing about gear, there is no shortage of jumpers who question the speedbag's design or the problem it supposedly solves. Where is all of the data that demonstrates JS's claim that without the speedbag we safety-stow jumpers are in jeopardy? Surely if they would demand a waiver just to purchase a replacement safetystow bag they must have some really convincing data to make such claims. Were is that data, Mike? When I start re-inventing proven designs for gear I'll post that data, otherwise, I would be the one be making wild unsubstantiated claims.

The factory has said that they were not able to duplicate the issue that was brought to their attention. Perhaps they should look at the picture posted above. FYI that pic was taken in the loft of a very highly regarded master rigger/DPRE. Now for that word “potential”. Potential is what this entire discussion is about. a bag with 10 locking stows has 10X the opportunity to lock than a safetystow bag. Thats the end of the discussion for a lot of people because in skydiving, anything that can, will eventually happen. Eliminating possibilities is one of the only effective ways to reduce risk, and that is why the industry quit using rubber band closed reserve bags 20+ years ago. I really just don't see any benefit (unless there is a rash of bag stripped reserves blowing up I haven't heard about) and the added risks are obvious.

I do a double wrap for all jumps. Hasn't killed me yet.

Not that I'm competing anymore (at least not anytime again soon) but I weigh 245 walking around, and exit at 270+. Whats an oversized swooper to do? I'm sure there are others. Three words: Trim Spa baby!

This speedbag discussion was had 3 years ago when it came out. Nothing that has occured in the interim has changed skydiving in any meaningful way. No other manufacturer has adopted a similar design, nor is it likely to happen. Why? Jumpers don't want it. Other manufacturers clearly don't agree with it. When one person, or company is doing things differently than the rest they might be pioneering new ground, or they may, as someone pointed out, doing things differently only to be different (because they didn't invent it the safety stow). To answer a few posts: Line dump is a misnomer, otherwise every base opening would explode the canopy. In case you aren't up to speed on this 25 or 30 year old technique of freestowing the lines, no line stows are used. Just a single locking stow is all that is required. Furthermore, how is it that people are using bags with (gasp), no stows. Search berger bag or stowless bag to learn more. At 250#, i am within the design parameters of sport gear built to 23c. Yes, I am aware that 10 years after every other gear mfgr stopped using velcro, JS finally realised that they were wrong. Many of you will remember that JS was equally sure that they were the only ones who "got it" with regards to velcro, and that those nasty tuck tabs would wear out too quickly, stay closed when you didn't want them to, and open when you didn't want them to. No velcro on new Racers you say? They use tuck tabs now? Oh my. Give JS another 10 years and the speedbag will be where their beloved velcro is now, the trashcan. Or maybe I'm wrong and every gear builder will be building velcro laden wondehog rip offs with round reserves, and of course, speedbags.

I don't believe in line dump, (otherwise freestowed lines would always "dump", but they don't) although I do believe that a canopy that starts inflating before it hits line stretch is a serious issue. That being said, the line stow pouch and primary stow on a freebag or tail pocket (base) are exceedingly reliable. The speedbag solves a problem that simply does not exist. When I received a reserve speedbag as a replacement for a lost freebag, I thought it was a really poor, 30 year old design. Reading about locked bags on this thread confirms what I thought. I had to sign a waiver to get a standard bag. Jump Shack seems to have a really odd history of building outdated (albeit confortable) gear using outdated material (velcro), and now, with the speedbag, outdated, decades old designs. Of course they will tell you that they have done thousands of tests that show that they are smarter than the other 95% of the industry who tend to do things similarly. Are the other 95% sheep? Hardly. Is Jump Shack leading edge, pioneering new designs that others haven't figured out yet? History shows that is clearly not the case. Anyone who has packed a speedbag would surely see the pitfalls of it's design.

Maybe I saw a different clip, by I give Jimmy a standing ovation. Its about time time people started handling their own PR. We can't just sit back and wait for the media to do make up shit about us when we can make up bad stories on our own. Jimmy is showing great leadership for the sport by getting the good word about base out to the masses. Way to go Jimmy!