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I don't think you'll get much sympathy from Kallend: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4688706;search_string=auto%20correct;#4688706 Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Right...Elementary school teachers should be expected to know what a bomb does or does not look like, but it's absurd to expect a U.S Secretary of State to know that wiping her private email server doesn't include using a cloth. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

These forums aren't really known for giving people the benefit of a doubt. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

I dont care to think about things like that why don't you just ask the NSA, Secret Service, FBI, and who ever else you just alerted with that comment if they know. Of course that's not what I meant. What I meant was, what would it cost our Nation if a President was assassinated? By chance, does a secret service agent happen to have a gun to your head right now? Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Trump just reinjected the stupid. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-says-vaccinations-are-causing-an-autism-epidemic-10505087.html Ben Carson alluded to the fact that there is no proof that vaccination causes autism - but perhaps he should've taken it a bit further and drilled Trump about the dangers of implementing policy based on such anecdotal evidence, but he just agrees with Trump in that the timing of vaccinations should be spread out a bit more. Personally I think Trump, Carly and Carson have formed a reality show alliance - it's brilliant. A rich business man, a powerful woman and a doctor who just happens to be black - all bases covered - The politicians don't have a chance... Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

...and that has a lot to do with CNN. I think the first question was "do you think Trumps finger should be on the button?" Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

At what point do you stop rejecting and start believing? I don't necessarily disagree, but I wouldn't say that it's entirely about power and control. I'm sure that with a bit of objectivity one can find both a positive and negative perspective - as with anything. Well, it's far more of a "Stop believing and start rejecting." Not that it matters, but over the years I've always been unclear as to what your position is. In this thread you've stated that your spiritual beliefs have evolved...that you far more reject the creation story than you do God. You also bring up the idea later in this post that there is "nobody" in control. This confusion leads be to believe you might be agnostic... if so, what is it that's holding you back from straight-up atheistic rejection of God? I was "raised" Catholic, went to a Catholic school...not very religious tho - Maybe we would go to church, maybe not... I'd say I believed in God, but He always seemed to be put on the back burner of my mind...nothing very practical/applicable. By the beginning of my adult life I probably would've related to agnosticism if I actually even cared to consider it at the time. Catholicism and the bible didn't really make much sense to me. I didn't understand, neither did I care. As time progressed, I'd say I grew more contemptuous of religion. After some pretty traumatic experiences, nothing made sense anymore. I felt that perhaps maybe I missed something. I felt that now that I'm a bit older, maybe I can re-evaluate this Christianity thing and make sense of it. The harder I looked, the more I understood. Probably very true...but that really has nothing to do with me and my faith in God. I heard Hitler ate sugar once, but I'm still pretty fond of cookies. Usually it begins when looking at creation - it's beauty and organization that inherently point to a creator. From that comes an appreciation and respect for the one who's given us life. The next question would be how is one to live in light of this realization? I've found the life of Christ to be the perfect example of this. I don't think there is anything more noble than sacrificing your life for another person - and I don't necessarily mean by physically dying. It's most likely because the belief in God through creation is an inherent human characteristic. It's also probably the reason why some agnostics will never crossover to atheism... Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Yeah, because the cops created the entrapped person and implanted him with the desire to steal cars. Great analogy bro. I'm not the one who brought up the cop entrapment analogy...this was just an illustration to show how silly it was. btw, God did not create people with the desire to reject Him as much as it was a choice...there's a difference. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Ya, some of those who believe in God reject much of the bible...I was just asking at what point did he actually start to believe. Some reject the creation story - "that's ridiculous..." The same people reject Jonah and the whale - "That's absurd..." They reject Noah's Arc - "That's Perposterous!" Jesus rises from the dead - "Ah yes, finally - that makes more sense..." Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Well, the level of teasing and tempting in that so-called "freedom of choice" is enough that, as Professor Kallend pointed out, if done by modern day cops, would easily be tossed out as entrapment. Teasing? It's not like it was an apple tree in the middle of a desert. It was one tree in a garden of abundance...it was one measly law, big deal. It's doubtful they would've gave it much consideration at all. You even agree that they were "entrapped" which by definition means to induce someone to commit a crime they'd otherwise wouldn't commit. Furthermore, God didn't tempt anyone, so this idea of "entrapment" is a bit of a stretch. At what point do you stop rejecting and start believing? I don't necessarily disagree, but I wouldn't say that it's entirely about power and control. I'm sure that with a bit of objectivity one can find both a positive and negative perspective - as with anything. I don't particularly subscribe to "Big Religion" whether it's Catholocism, or mega church Evangelism. There will always be extremes so obviously it's important to find a healthy medium. I've found it most beneficial to gather with smaller close nit groups of like minded believers where our focus has nothing to do with money, power, control, politics - whatever. I may attend various churches at times for a different perspective or to gain more insight into scripture, but for the most part it's about sacrifice and service to others so as to be a positive influence in their lives. That's primarily what the life of Christ has taught me through scripture, and therefore have no need to disregard it. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Funnily enough, it was the church's inner workings that proved to me what a farce the whole religion thing is. It is disgusting how people are taken advantage of. That's certainly a legitimate concern...I can relate. It's sad how some of these people can not only steal your money, but also your faith. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

That gives me an idea for a spin-off of the Bait Car TV series, but in this version the cops would actually disclose that certain vehicles are actually bait cars. The ignitions will be turned on and the vehicles will be marked with "Bait Car" decals. The cops would then declare that anyone who steals these cars, will surely be put in jail. The first episode transcript: The Tempter: Hey man, there goes one of them bait cars, let's steal it. The "entrapped": If we steal it we shall surely go to jail. The Tempter: You will not surely go to jail, they're just saying that so you don't steal it...it's like a deterrent - nobody's even watching. The "entrapped": I don't know man, it even has one of them bait-car decals right on it... The Tempter: Oh c'mon man, people just put them on there for insurance discounts....Just take it man, you'll be like God. The "entrapped": (steals car) The "entrapped" goes to jail and blames the tempter. The tempter blames the cops and calls them "a bunch of cunts out to get people." Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Wait, I thought it didn't include the knowledge of good and evil, hence the whole serpent/apple/original sin thing... Are you saying you don't believe in original sin because knowledge of evil was god's plan all along? Surely an omniscient God would've known that they'd eventually rebel and choose knowledge over Him, right? Which would make him a bit of a cunt for setting the trap, eh? Douglas Adams summed it up nicely in "The Restaurant at the End of the Universe": https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/430537-your-god-person-puts-an-apple-tree-in-the-middle Well, with that type of mentality primarily coming from those who reject God, it's doubtful that it would've even mattered how He chose to implement the freedom of choice...they'd always think that he was just "a cunt out to get you." Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Ya, not too bad...I'd give it a 7.0 Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

So, as human beings, we're all many times worse than we were 500 years ago, or 1000 years ago, or 2000 years ago? Sure. You and I are obviously far far more evil than those fine Christians who hanged old women at Salem, and who managed the Spanish Inquisition. Those things happened because of modern interpretation. Today we have a better understanding of various cultures and language that can provide more insight into scripture... ...in most cases, that is generally a good thing. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

So, as human beings, we're all many times worse than we were 500 years ago, or 1000 years ago, or 2000 years ago? Sure. You and I are obviously far far more evil than those fine Christians who hanged old women at Salem, and who managed the Spanish Inquisition. I didn't say we were far more evil, I said it negatively affects us exponentially - like a domino effect. In the past the effects of sin were more localized - but today - a person's greed in New York can negatively affect the entire global economy and then even more evil is spawned from that, and so on and so forth... Jeremiah 17:9 "The human heart is the most deceitful of all things, and desperately wicked. Who really knows how bad it is? Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Wait, I thought it didn't include the knowledge of good and evil, hence the whole serpent/apple/original sin thing... Are you saying you don't believe in original sin because knowledge of evil was god's plan all along? Surely an omniscient God would've known that they'd eventually rebel and choose knowledge over Him, right? Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Why is it "kinda sad" to ask questions? Is it wrong to seek clarification when different "rules" require mutually incompatible responses? When correctly following one edict puts you in violation of a different one? I suppose there is nothing sad if the questions are sincere, but in most instances it's just contemptuous trolling - but to be clear - I wouldn't put you in that lot, which is why I tried to give at least a minimal effort in my reply to you... And yet, according to your system of belief God created humans "in His image". Right, and that perfection included a choice and the knowledge of good and evil, but unlike God, we find pleasure in certain types of evil - and that has negatively affected us exponentially throughout our history. So, being unlike God, we really aren't in his image at all. Well, it says God is Spirit, yet we are flesh and blood - neither are we omniscient/omnipresent...so if "in His image" means "exact replica," then no. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Actually, we were just having a discussion rather than post-whoring lame one-liners all day... btw, please stop asking me stupid questions that I've already addressed. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Lol, let's not jump the gun there dude. And hopefully there's nothing going on that makes you think you're about to be forcibly tattooed on your forehead You'd think that if you were to use the laughing emoji, you'd come up with a better "zinger" than that... Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Why is it "kinda sad" to ask questions? Is it wrong to seek clarification when different "rules" require mutually incompatible responses? When correctly following one edict puts you in violation of a different one? I suppose there is nothing sad if the questions are sincere, but in most instances it's just contemptuous trolling - but to be clear - I wouldn't put you in that lot, which is why I tried to give at least a minimal effort in my reply to you... And yet, according to your system of belief God created humans "in His image". Right, and that perfection included a choice and the knowledge of good and evil, but unlike God, we find pleasure in certain types of evil - and that has negatively affected us exponentially throughout our history. I would venture to guess that most of us are sexual deviants, but believe it or not, there are people who respond in a manner that is acceptable to God. Most people, like yourself miss the point and do exactly that... I'd say the problem is that the version of religion you prefer is just a big mind fuck. We're condemned if we do. We're condemned if we don't. No matter what we do we are crap. But, maybe with enough abject supplication God will hold His nose and let us in. That's kind of a negative perspective on grace if you ask me...but whatever. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Ya, well Christel is the one who has the problem with it, so maybe you should take that up with her... ...but then again, it's like talking to a brick wall, so I understand. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Perhaps in your religion it is the 4th commandment...who cares? Sin is sin and I wouldn't have beaten you over the head in some type of half-assed ignorant attempt to "embarrass" you on a public forum just because you didn't answer my PM... My bible shows it as the 5th...so if you're catholic or something, then that's your problem, not mine... If any one should be embarrassed, it's you... Why should I? In my protestantic church, it's the 4th .... Should be easy for you to find out. m'kay, whatever...bless your heart. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

I think a transgender male has a better chance at being the first female president... Kaitlin for President...she can be the POTUS and first lady. It's amazing how some candidates can be so delusional as to "stay the course" as if they can actually win...it kinda makes me wanna vote for Rick Perry in a stupid fuckhead voter kinda way... Too late, Rick Perry just bowed out of the race. Ya...I know, that's why I said what I said. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

I think the proper term is "objection." Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour