diverdriver

The deal is that if your gas cap is broken and won't stay on you don't go flying with it duct taped. You get it fixed and you don't fly until it is. With an improperly fitted or broken gas cap you can actually suck the fuel out in flight. With the 182 being a high wing you can't see the fuel streaming behind you. I was on a formation load (C-182s) and I came up behind a 182 that was leaking. Just got a glint of it with the sun just right. The cap had not been secured properly and was syphoning fuel inflight. We aborted and he landed with power on. Glad we caught it. Chris Schindler ATP D-19012 www.DiverDriver.com

Here is the text of a report on a 182 crash. Read the last line. Fellow Jump Pilots.....please don't duct tape your aircraft to keep stuff closed. If it's broke, fix it. NTSB Identification: FTW02LA137 Accident occurred Thursday, May 02, 2002 at Tuckerman, AR Aircraft:Cessna 182G, registration: N3146S Injuries: 1 Serious, 1 Minor. This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed. On May 2, 2002, at 1645 central daylight time, a Cessna 182G single-engine airplane, N3146S, was substantially damaged when it impacted a levee during a forced landing following a loss of engine power near Tuckerman, Arkansas. The airplane was registered to Silver Air Inc. of Wilmington, Delaware, and operated by Silverwing Aviation of Searcy, Arkansas. The commercial pilot sustained minor injuries, and his sole passenger was seriously injured. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed for the 14 Code of Federal Regulations part 91 personal flight. The cross-country flight departed from Leavenworth, Kansas, approximately 1430, for a destination of Newport, Arkansas. Preliminary information indicates that while at 7,000 feet msl, approximately 2 hours 10 minutes into the flight, the engine "sputtered," and the pilot descended the airplane below the clouds. Approximately 3 miles from a grass airstrip, the engine lost total power. The pilot circled the airplane around to the south of the airstrip to make a north landing into the wind; however, the airplane impacted a levee 60-70 feet short of the runway. The airplane came to rest inverted. An examination of the airplane, by FAA inspectors who responded to the accident site, revealed that the landing gear, the firewall, and the left wing spar were damaged. Examination of the fuel system revealed that the left fuel filler cap was loose and its clip was broken. No fuel was found in either tank, and there was no evidence of a fuel spill. According to ground personnel, prior to departing Leavenworth, Kansas, the airplane's fuel tanks were topped off, and the pilot put duck tape over the left fuel filler cap.

That I can't speculate whether it was proper or not. That is one of the things they will determine for the final report. I will say this.....in higher elevation airports, with warm temperatures, you will need to lean the engine to maximum performance. Lean too much and you will have reduced performance and MAYBE increased engine temperatures (which over time can POSSIBLY cause accelerated engine wear). Don't lean enough and you can foul the plugs and/or reduce the combustion efficiency in the engine. These are issues that will be determined for this particular flight. What I have covered here is only general info for opperating at higher density altitude airports. It has no bearing on whether this flight was conducted correctly or not. There very well could have been a mechanical problem that has not been found yet and could not have been known before takeoff. If you want to read about other Cessna 182 accidents go to my site and look in the Accidents section. Last year there were several 182 accidents. (Mostly because there are more 182s flying than any other jump plane.) Peruse the files there and see for yourself what issues jump planes face in the recent past. Chris Schindler ATP D-19012 www.DiverDriver.com

Ok, this is the preliminary report and stuff can change before the final report comes out so check back once in awhile to see what changes (if any) have been made and a "cause" has been determined. But.....it says that the plane was started and run up with some jumpers on board. The engine didn't run correctly at that time so it was brought back and shut down. Later, it was started up, run up and it seemed fine so a load was put on the aircraft. During the takeoff the pilot reported that it was producing the expected power but after liftoff they were not climbing as expected. It says he tried to return to the airport and land. They had some, but not much climb rate initially. As the aircraft came around to land they were no longer able to maintain altitude and were in jeapordy of colliding in flight with power lines. The pilot says that he elected to put the plane down before having an inflight collision and the landing did not go so well. The plane has damage. In the follow up report you will see a greater detail of the damage to the aircraft and a break down of what tests were done to the engine to determine why it did not develop full power bringing a normal climb. Chris Schindler www.DiverDriver.com

Here is the NTSB link to the C-182 crash at Skydive Las Vegas May 7, 2002. Non-Fatal. http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20020510X00659&key=1 Chris Schindler ATP D-19012 www.DiverDriver.com

Jack, Very nice post. Thank you for setting everything straight. Chris Schindler http://www.DiverDriver.com

Ok. That's where it came from. Chris

SBS....that's the first I've seen someone post that he hit a tire first then the tail. How do we know that? Are there marks? A memory? Chris Schindler

I didn't read further in the thread so maybe this question will be answered but.....Should birdmen go out first? Last? Always? I know of an operation putting them out first and it seemed to work fine. Kind of like a CRW load where they are short of the field and then have to fly into the wind to the airport. Any thoughts on this? Has this already been hashed out on another forum? I would like to add a section to my website on the issues brought up here. I could use some help from Birdmen. Chris Schindler www.DiverDriver.com

Hey! I resemble that remark! Oh, I'm doing it again. Anyway.....Typically you will find operations want about 500 hours total time, Commercial, Instrument. This is usually an insurance issue. My suggestion would be to find a job flying students that also has an active aerial photography business, and does site seeing trips, and is located between some Cessna DZs. When you get your time up flying students and other stuff then you might break in as a weekend Jump Pilot in a 182. Get to about 1,000 total time and about 100 multi-engine and you can start looking for that Twin Otter, Skyvan, Casa job. By that time you will have learned more about the industry and can decide on what you are looking for in an operation. If you want to know more about flying skydivers I have an educational website with its' own posting forum. The site addy is: http://www.DiverDriver.com Chris Schindler ATP D-19012 www.DiverDriver.com

It's funny cuz he's alive but I can hear people adding to the list of reasons to buy a cypres as "Yah, if I'm knocked unconcious by another jumper or the jump plane after I exit." Sheeeesh. And he still has no memory of cutting away and deploying his reserve? Wow. Just amazing. And thankful that he's alive. Chris Schindler

Bill, can you confirm or dispute the info that I have been given by some people that the body of the aircraft has wrinkled skin just below the leading edge of the horizontal stabilizer and goes from top to bottom of the fuselage? Is it believed that the skin of the fuselage was wrinkled because of impact of the jumper or due to stress from the impact on the horizontal stabilizer? Chris Schindler www.DiverDriver.com

Hey Sebazz, you can't count that 206 Jess has. That's a ballsy Cessna. We were doing loads of 5 to 12K in 12 minutes. That's a nice monster engine on there. If I were starting a DZ I'd get a 206 just like it with the IO-550 engine. Nice cargo door with slide up lexan door. Shoobi mat. With Shoobi bail out SQUARE reserve. Sweet setup. Chris Schindler www.DiverDriver.com

As cliche as it sounds this is a wake up call for pilots and birdmen alike. I'm glad we have both people involved alive to give accounts (however much is possible) so that procedures and advice can be given through the community. This is something that needs very wide dissemination around the world. The popularity of Birdman suits is growing and all info would help greatly. I just recently got corrected on the descent rates possible with these suits. I thought the slowest speeds were about 60 mph vertical but I was told it's down to 35 mph. With that huge decrease from normal BTE freefall that energy has to be translated somehow and horizontal speed and glide ratio is where it's going. As a pilot, I've been pretty far behind what these suits are capable of these days. Who knows what they'll be able to do tomorrow. Let's make sure we educate pilots and birdmen on how to handle these issues. Chris Schindler ATP D-19012 www.DiverDriver.com

Nice annonymous post. Post something like that you should have the guts to sign your name. You may be correct but you lose all credibility by having an annonymous profile. Chris Schindler

Sangiro....your service to society (jumpers in particular) is beyond any thank you we can give you. But.....Thank you sir. Chris Schindler ATP D-19012 www.DiverDriver.com

Funny. I haven't seen an FAA report on it. Major wrinkled skin? Are you sure about that? Maybe it'll come out today since it happened so late on Sunday. Chris Schindler ATP www.DiverDriver.com

Ok BRIAN GOFF. Sheesh. Excuse me for answering your question. I don't have time to click on every profile. If you ask a newbie question then you get a newbie answer. You know who to call dude. I'm sure TF will be able to find ya something. Chris

The updates to the Accidents Section of www.DiverDriver.com has been updated with about 30+ reports. Many were from the years 1990-1997. The new reports for 2002 have been added up to but not including the Conway, AR 182 crash. That will be added soon hopefully. I am in the process of learning how to do updates on my own so hopefully updates will come more often and in more real time. Thanks for reading. Chris Schindler ATP D-19012 www.DiverDriver.com

There are many different types of accomodation. You can stay at a local hotel (most are within 4 miles of the DZ) or you can bring a trailor, you can tent, or you can reserve a place in the bunk house/trailor.....I would contact Mainfest at Skydive Chicago at 815-433-0000. Chris Schindler

No flame throwers here. You obviously been around awhile. I could care less if people choose WFFC or Summerfest. I'll be at Summerfest most likely. I just hope everyone keeps an open mind about WFFC. But, you have more history to draw from on this issue. Chris

Guys, you have a commitment to a team and free coached training. With your low jump numbers I think it's better for you to build your experience before joining the crew on the DZ.com attempts. That's why we talked about having multiple dates so we could jump around and see some different DZs. We'll all make plans to be out there again and be part of this fun family: DZ.com. Chris Schindler

I think you should give WFFC a little wider chance this year. They are opening at a new facility on relatively short notice for the size of event. There are bound to be issues that have to be ironed out. And I'm sure that next year the WFFC will build on the issues from this year. I speak from experience on how best intentions for a large event can quickly go sour through no fault of your own. Many people hated the SDC when we first moved over to the new airport. SDC now 2002 and SDC 1998 are very different places. Vastly improved. Yes, I used to be full time pilot at SDC. Still jump there. I just think giving the WFFC a better chance this first year is in order. Chris Schindler

You think running a twin otter is cheap? With only 2 people on board? Man, more up-jumpers thinking that DZOs are just raking it in off of 20 bucks a lift ticket. Running planes is EXPENSIVE. Chris

It might help if we knew what questions you have that need answering. Your first post is rather broad and hard to answer easily. I think my fingers would fall off actually. Chris Schindler