diverdriver

Well, hard as I might try....looks like I may have not been clear on one point. This was NOT an instructional dive. I said he was on the instructional staff but did not give more specifics because I didn't want to clue in to who it is before the family is certainly notified. My fault for being a little vague there. This was just two licensed jumpers going out for a fun jump. It was not a Free Fly paid coaching jump. Just two friends going up with one trying to impart some knowledge to the other. Chris Schindler

It is with great sadness that I must post about a fatality at Skydive Chicago on Saturday. I do not know if the family has been notified so I will not post a name yet. I would also like to thank the DZ.com family for not jumping on this before details were known. I know some of you have sent me PMs asking if it were true. I wish it was not true. But here's reality: On Saturday at around 5pm an experienced jumper (~700-800 jumps and is on the instructional staff at SDC) went on a 2-way freefly with a low time (~35 jumps in 3 seasons) jumper. They went out launching a two way head down. After questioning about the incident what has been surmised is that the deceased dove hard on the other jumper after their two way launch was released. The low time jumper did not stay stable in the head down position and transitioned to a sit. At that time, the deceased struck the foot of the low time jumper and was knocked unconcious. He fell unstable until impact. No handles were pulled. The Cypres installed did not fire. The low time jumper was not able to reach the deceased in air before he had to save his own life and deploy his main. This information came from a staff meeting at SDC last evening (Sunday). Roger has said that the FAA has called for him to come pick up the rig for inspection. Roger then reminded them of proper chain of evidence procedures and told them that they had to bring it to the master rigger at the DZ and stay while the rig was inspected to observe what was being done. The Cypres will be sent away for analysis to determine if it was on at all for this jump. This is very disheartening for me as a jumper at SDC. I know you all know what the stats are for the past 12 months. At no time does this staff take safety lightly. We care about one another who jump there regularly and who visit from out of town. Lessens to be taken from this incident: Always check your gear before putting on your rig. Make sure your Cypres is turned on before EVERY jump. Do not assume that because it was on last time it will still be on for this jump. Cypres will turn itself off after 14 hours of being on. If you power it up the night before and start jumping it again the next morning it will turn itself off at some point during that day. (This is not the theory for this incident but it bares repeating because it is possible. It's believed that the rig was just picked up and the Cypres was not turned on.) 2. Just because you have a lot of total jump numbers does not mean you have enough to go on every jump. (an analogy: A jumper could have 1,000 jumps but only 100 Free Fly jumps. Are they qualified to do a 2-way head down coach jump? I am not suggesting that this is the case here. The deceased, from all accounts, had many more Free Fly jumps than just 100 to his credit.) Think about it for yourself in every situation. Am I putting myself in jeapordy or the other person in jeapordy by designing the dive in this manner? Or going with them at all with the conditions that are present? I hope this knowledge I have posted here will highten the conciousness of another jumper somewhere so as to not make the same mistake. There seems to be no fault between either jumper. The surviving jumper is having a hard time with this because he feels responsible. Roger has told him that he is not responsible. Yes, he was involved. But it was an accident. And that's all. Blues skies JV. We will learn from you. We have to. Chris Schindler ATP D-19012

Yes, there is a spoon and it just thwapped me in the eye. Chris

Well, actually, tightening the pop top does not build up the pull pressure as fast as you might think. Yes, keep honking down on it and it will build pressure. But, the mechanical advatage of the reserve cable and pin overcomes a lot. A big deal was made years ago that someone could spin the cap and it would increase the pull force to an impossible pull. If I remember correctly it was something like 35 complete revolutions when it was closed properly before you could make it a "hard" pull (greater than the 25 pounds force max required). I'm just going on memory on that. And don't care to revist the arguement. You're right about the directions on tightening it. Just want those directions to go out to others who were reading this too. It does say only the rigger who packed it can tighten it. It's just very important that people who are not familiar with the system not go honking down on the closing loop string. Seen it done and then they bent the pin. They even wanted to keep jumping it and I through a fit. I got them convinced to have their rigger look at it and then he agreed that it had to be replaced. Ooooops. Chris Schindler

Do NOT tug on that string unless you know EXACTLY what you are doing. Not directed at you Pilotdave specificly but others that may be reading this. You can bend the pin if you do not tighten it correctly. Some people who are used to packing Racers pull long and steady on the string to tighten. This is exactly how to mess it up on a Reflex. Consult the Rig manual on how to pack the reserve or have your rigger do it. Then check to make sure the pin was not bent while doing this. Bent pin might mean hard/impossible reserve pull. Same as any rig. Just be careful. Chris Schindler

If your rigger does it correctly then you shouldn't need to retighten the closing loop. I see this all the time. It's mostly due to the fact that the closing loop was incorrectly made so that the finger trap is laying across the grommet in the cap instead of being centered. Once it's centered and tightened it should not move at all. I was one of the first to have a Reflex at Skydive Chicago and have never had a problem with the pop top moving around. I've seen others that leaned up on one side. This is usually due to the rigger not centering the spring over the flaps before closing. I love my Reflex. Mfg. 1997. Ridden reserve once with Catapult installed. Very easy to catch freebag in flight. HIGHLY recommend not doing this with Catapult installed. It's TWICE the drag when caught! Yikes! I caught it with my foot so it wasn't anywhere near my lines. Don't know anything about the new company making the Reflex again. You'll have to get info from others on that. Chris Schindler

Oh screw all those questions......yeeeesh....started answering and then realized how many there were. Ah well. And then Chris learned to spell after he uncrossed his eyes from all the questions.

A legend in my own mind.

Yah, but Leemo is on that four-way team Booty Surf. Maybe if I just go and land out behind the trees she'll follow me down and land out with me. Oh eeeneR? OK, this thread is officially hi-jacked now. Chris

Oh yah 32 is SO OVER the hill. Whatever. Anyway, you can get into whatever you want to. If you want to get paid for it you need to get back into the FARs. As for the required amount of IFR/VFR flying you have to do it's all right there. Look at Part 135 requirements for flying and look at the requirements for ATP. Many times you will need the equivelant to land a job that pays a descent amount. If you get into flying jumpers make sure you are also doing cross country flying somewhere, somehow. You need night, and IFR flying. Some of it can be accomplished in a simulator which is cheaper to rent than an aircraft. Hope that helps start you out. Chris Schindler ATP D-19012 www.DiverDriver.com

BB, I think this is boardering on stalking. Easy girl. Chris

That's 200+ acre landing area and you're right. Has NOTHING to do with it. Just ask Roger. He never misses that big lot right? It's ALLLLLLllllll just luck. Mmmmhhmmmm. I got your number mister. Come on....let's get you up in the air......I promise you won't "accidently" land off. Chris

Not necessarily. My Garmin GPS III Pilot has a data field that shows me off track in tenths and feet. I can adjust JR from one to the other for cross drift. I just always put in Direct To the center of the airport then use the moving map with the four fields to the right reading "Groundspeed, Distance to waypoint, distance x-track, time to waypoint". Works great so I don't have to keep moving the imaginary waypoints around. Chris Schindler

That's cuz I'm gooooooood. Actually, I like flying cross-wind JRs for that very reason. Chris Schindler

Trey, good points and I don't see anything unsafe with that. You are correct about a flailing FF drifting further or sit flyers going first. Remember, we are trying to put together what works most of the time. You have pointed out a good exeption. As long as everyone understands what is going on. Chris Schindler

Dooooohhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What eeneR left out from the story...... She bought WAY more beer and alchohol than the customary "case". She did a textbook cutaway. She has about 70 jumps. AND brought both handles back. She asked a lot of questions BEFORE she had a real reserve ride. AND she cutaway from a canopy that some might have tried to fight longer than they should have. The canopy was over her head at first but didn't respond like typical line twists. She couldn't kick out of it even though she was under it. She was alititude aware and hit the hard deck and chopped. Golden rule: Land safely under an open parachute. Well done eeneR. And nice job on your "return" jump. Kudos also has to go out to her rigger (sorry, Nylon American) who had her reserve packed back up almost completely by the time we got the main back up there on a SATURDAY! And we found it fast. Chris [proud boyfriend]

Zennie, what you stated sounds like a good plan. Here's why biggest to smallest group helps.....The last Flat flier goes out....then the biggest Freak group climbs out....takes longer to get set, and then goes....you now have added some seperation to an already good situation putting flats first then freaks. Make sense? Chris Schindler

Hey Richard. Take a look at Kallend's site. I linked to it a few posts ago. Do you have power point? Take the tour. It is a real eye opener and has really been hashed out by some of the greatest minds around. "Catching up" to an RW group vertically (being on same level) is not as bad as having someone "catch up" to you horizontally (being in the same collum of air). The only problem that ever exists is when we transition from Flats to Verts or Verts to Flats. If you truly know what is going on it is possible to put the Freaks out first. But......we want a "rule" that will work in most (99.99%) of the time with little effort. That rule is Flats first, Largest to smallest, then Freaks second, Largest to smallest, high pullers, students, Tandems. I'm not lieing to you Richard. This is what years of thinking, practicing, phylosophising has brought about. But, down the road if the disciplines change somehow then this might need re-evaluation. But for now. The safest thing to do is to follow the rule I stated above. It's for your safety and the safety of the people around you. Chris Schindler ATP D-19012 www.DiverDriver.com

And for those who don't know who "Kallend" is go to his website on freefall drift. It is all mapped out there. The site address is: http://www.iit.edu/~kallend/skydive/. He is a professor of engineering at Illinois Institute of Technology, Illinois, USA. Scroll down and look at the freefall drift links. READ EVERYTHING. If you want back up on your ideas. It's all there. Been mapped out as to why exactly FreeFliers first is an accident waiting to happen. Chris Schindler ATP D-19012 www.DiverDriver.com

You have to make it small. I actuall switch when I bring my rig as carry on. I use my gearbag as my clothes bag and check it. Then I use my "wheely" as they are called for my rig and small items. MAKE SURE you do not put your hook knife in your carry on items. It will get confiscated. This method has worked great for me several times.

Hook, if you're banned from the DZ then you don't want to be at that DZ anyway. However, I ALSO believe there is a proper way to bring up safety issues and that is NOT (at least not right off the bat) yelling and screaming around the hangar about an issue. If you have an issue then bring it up with the person involved. If that doesn't seem to take effect then take it to the DZO. If you do not have a satisfactory result and you really believe in what you are doing then you might ask some other jumers that you trust in their opinion to give a straight honest answer. If they say that you are on the right track then it's easier to persue your issue. If they don't agree with you then maybe you asked the wrong people. Following what your gut tells you can save your life and maybe the lives of the people around you. I've left DZs before due to safety (and other) issues. I've had friends killed in multiple jump plane accidents. Build a spine and say something. Persue it if you think it needs persuing. What I don't like is when I see people posting here about what they perceive as a safety issue and they don't really know what they are talking about. They make their judgement and don't persue the issue with the DZ or DZO at all. Maybe there was a good explanation for what happened. It's a double edged sword. This place can give a lot of good info. And it can also be used to further someone's personal agenda for slander. I've posted things before that I got slammed/flamed for and after thinking about it I agreed with them and wrote a follow up on how my opinion changed. The posts that got me to thinking the most were the ones that did not talk down to me. That explained their view point and then left it up for me to decide. Chris

LOL. Yah think? Hey, if it's good enough for the tractor is must be good en'uf for de aero-plane. Chris (no....the other one.)

So, so true. You can see the attitudes on the ground sometimes and you go "You know...I just don't want to be in the air with this person ever." The first question is always "How do we identify the chain?" But the most important question is: "How do we break the chain?" Do you ground the jumper? What if you don't have that authority? Do you scold the jumper? Do you chastise the pilot who cut it close on fuel and landed dead stick (ok, no metal bent) but needed a little help at the other end of the runway? Do you just leave the operation and turn a blind eye to the situation? The question is: "How are you going to get involved to make a difference?" Chris Schindler

It's a form DT50m. In quadruplite (for better hold). LOL. Chris