ManBird

Of course, but it doesn't seem to be in the same way. When flying with Zaz, our fall rates stay around 40 MPH until about 6,000 feet. My fall rate will stay at 40 MPH until pull time, yet he will start to float on me. My fall rate at lower altitueds, for the same body position, decreases by maybe 2 - 4 MPH at most. His fall rate by the time I pull (usually 4,000 feet) is probably somewhere in the low 30s. I have some theories as to why this may be, but they're probably wrong. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

I think what I'm lacking is the explanation of "why" we fly that pattern. I usually don't tell people "why" about anything, in skydiving or otherwise, unless they ask. Getting off of the line of flight makes sense to everybody, but people don't really expect to travel that far, and are used to magically ending up over the drop zone as long as the green light was on when they get out. The other part of it is how enamoured people get with the flight (especially when they get a good fall rate on their first flight). I work like crazy to get their attention, on up to grab their hand and pulling them along with my turn, but when they're really stunned by the flight, it doesn help much. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

Thanks for the tip. I check this out every year. They had Dan Barlia doing wingsuit BASE on 'Cold Fusion'. The amazing story is that they didn't seek him out at all. They went to ski some crazy mountains and just encountered him doing his thing, were really impressed, and got him on film on that trip. It will be nice to see Loic's flight on a big screen on film. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

Anyone been over two minutes in their Pantz yet? I just got them, but got 92 seconds on Sunday (dumped at 3k), and I think Grasshopper got closer to 100 seconds while he was up here, and may have done better by now. I'd guess that somebody's done it by now. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

Just some disconnected thoughts on the matter... DISCONNECTED THOUGHT 1: Would a suit that is slow enough to land be as fun as suits we are flying now? Would it just be a different type of fun? In flying along with Zaz in his VX, I know that those flying really high performance canopies are going about the same speed, both down and forwards, until the air density increases at lower altitudes, where a wingsuit flight doesn't change much, but a canopy's flight changes a lot (at least in terms of descent). So our Skyflyer 3s already match high performance canopies, more or less. DISCONNECTED THOUGHT 2: Canopies were headed once head in the direction of getting smaller and smaller and people believed that large wingsuits and small canopies would eventually meet in size. As canopies shrunk and wingsuits grew, we encountered limits. A canopy could be too small to perform well, so the canopy pilots and manufacturers backed off of going smaller. Wingsuits are still getting a bit bigger, but we are running into issues of endurance. I think I've already dislocated my thumb a couple times as the resistance on the wing causes the loops to try to sever my thumbs off my hands. DISCONNECTED THOUGHT 3: It seems that the goal for wingsuits is docility through performance. This is very ironic compared to all that we know in skydiving. Docile canopies are usually less enjoyable to fly than high performance canopies (for a lot of people... yes, this is subjective). As performance goes up in wingsuits, so does docility (in regards to the goal of landing a wingsuit). The more slowly you can go in a wingsuit, the more amazed you are (in terms of fall rate). Will this irony hold all the way through to this goal, or will a suit docile enough to land safely be less enjoyable than a "faster" suit? DISCONNECTED THOUGHT 4: If this goal is met, will the payoff conceptual, or tangible? When you land a wingsuit, what will be your reward... the experience or the fact? Will this be something you will want to do time and time again for the love of it, or will you do it once or twice just so that you have done it? "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

I didn't take it as bad mouthing at all. I agree with you. It's obvious that when you say "better", you are referring to the canopy's performance, primarily when swooping. I'm getting a nice fat swoop out of my Sabre2 (around 250 ft in no wind), and it will only get better from there. However, I wholeheartedly believe that if I was jumping a Crossfire 2 at the same wingloading for the same number of jumps, I'd have faster and longer swoops, as well as the advantages of harness input, than what I get with my Sabre2. No two ways about, the Sabre2 is, and is designed to be, a canopy with a huge performance envelope. The Crossfire 2 is, and is designed to be, an aggressive canopy. If I could afford a second rig, I'd have a Crossfire 2 in it. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

Yeah, I don't doubt that technically I had 12 hours a bit earlier. Before my camera sploded, I was able to capture a fairly good number of jumps for the real times. The one's where I really pushed got up around (and sometimes over) three minutes. I think my thumbs have been dislocated like seven hundred times now. I started flying a wingsuit at 260 jumps, and I know that there are people out there that are getting into the sport specifically to fly these suits. As the suits and training get better and people get more inspired and committed to start flying earlier and sticking with it, I won't be surprised if we see someone get their twelve hours in less than five hundred jumps relatively soon. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

Jump #595, an 84 second tracking dive in my Pantz, put me at 43,263 seconds of freefall... that's more than twelve hours in less than 600 jumps, thanks to wingsuit flying on more than half of my jumps. I bet the USPA never saw that one coming when they were establishing freefall awards. ;) Good thing freefall time isn't beerable. Though my 600th this weekend will be... "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

Hey, didn't imply that it was. CF2 is definitely a higher performance airfoil. I really enjoyed flying one, even at a lower W/L. My Sabre2 107 is great for wingsuit stuff. I jumped the Crossfire 2 with a wingsuit about twenty times without issue, but don't plan on doing that all the time. I can definitely see a Crossfire 2 99 (or the equivalent at the time) as my next canopy in couple years or about 400 jumps (whichever comes first). (Edited to fix typos) "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

The only person I've ever seen nail the navigation on the first flight was Randy (Zenister on dz.com). He set his first alarm to go off at 10K to remind him to go back to the drop zone. I should have all future new birds do that if they have a ProTrack. Hell, they can borrow mine. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

The Crossfire 2 is a step up from everything that isn't crossbraced. ;) I'd like to see more of the Katana. The videos I've seen so far aren't really selling me on it. BTW, I actually think the Sabre2 is a step up from the Stilleto in terms of distance on a swoop. The recovery arc on the Sabre2 seems to be about 50% - 60% longer than of a Stelleto (which, I guess, isn't saying that much). It seems closer to the CF2 than the Stilleto in that respect, but not much else. I love my Sabre2 and its hot, hot heat. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

I call bullshit. There is a TON of flare in this canopy, and it will stay inflated and pressurized until you put it on the ground. I accidentally popped up about fifteen feet when I hit the brakes too hard to clear the lip on the pond, after swooping the whole thing. As a side note, this canopy is so much faster than the one I was jumping before I borrowed it (keep in mind that this Crossfire 2 was ten sq ft BIGGER and was loaded at 1.3:1), that I still hit my foot on the lip (very hard). The necessary reaction is much higher for this canopy. It's a kickass canopy. After I get about 400 jumps in on my new Sabre 2, I'd like to move over to a slightly smaller Crossfire 2 or equivalent. Just for a bit of perspective, I'll have at least 1,000 jumps by the time I'm putting myself on highly elliptical nine cell at it's optimum wingloading. And not to toot my own horn, but I'll probably do well with it pretty quickly because I will have just put 400 jumps on a canopy that was only 8 sq ft larger and less elliptical, much like I just downsized from a canopy that was square and only 13 sq ft larger after putting 400 jumps on it. I'm getting dirt-water-dirt on our pond after only 15 jumps on my new main because it is only slightly off of my old one. I can focus on performance and safe swoops instead of worrying about whether I'll have legs when I'm done with it. It definitely makes you a better swoop to pace yourself. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

The Crossfire 2 will perform well at just about any reasonable wingloading. I borrowed a Crossfire 2 for 25 jumps that is 10 sq ft bigger than my previous canopy. I only loaded it at about 1.3:1 and was getting about a 220 foot swoop out of it in no wind (and I'm far from any sort of pro). It's true that you will get better performance at about 1.7:1, but a canopy that performs best at that wingloading is not made for someone with 200 jumps. With your jump numbers and your current canopy experience, you probably shouldn't move over and down that quickly. The Crossfire 2, at any wingloading, is a very high performance wing... one step away from cross-braced. You should only move one direction at a time. Either fly a higher performance airfoil at the same wingloading, or fly a similar airfoil at a higher wingloading. Going from a square seven cell loaded at 1.1 to a highly elliptical canopy loaded at 1.4 is simply not acceptable, and you will more than likely injure yourself. You obviously want to break out of the square seven cell mold, so I'd recommend changing shape before changing size. Something like a Sabre 2 (semi-elliptical nine cell) at a similar wingloading is advised. If there's no stopping you from going to a Crossfire 2, at least get some training specifically for flying an elliptical canopy and don't load it too much. The performance of the airfoil will more than make up for the lack of wingloading. Even at less than 1.3:1 it will still be very fast and you will need to be very, very careful. Talk to your S&TA and the most experienced high performance canopy pilots at your drop zone. They've seen you land and will make a better recommendation. If they say you shouldn't get one, then they are right. At 190 skydives, you probably aren't ready for a Crossfire 2 of any size. No offense, I just hate seeing people rush and get injured or killed. It's OK to have goals in terms of what canopy you'll be flying (I'm at least a couple canopies away from I'd like to see myself 900 jumps from now), but don't rush it. Have fun, be safe, and make the right decision. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

Pretty much the number one thing I hear from everybody about their wingsuit flights is their fall rate. Fall rate is not the ultimate guage (I think we all know this by now). Any fall rate under your "normal" tracking fall rate should give you the feeling of flight. When I'm taking someone on a rodeo dive and we fall 90 - 100 MPH, the first thing they talk about when we get down is how slow it felt. However, most people can't help but want to improve their fall rate and be the best out there. There is help. If you aren't satisfied with your fall rate, this is what you do: 1) Stop comparing yourself to others. 2) Get training. 3) Work out. 4) Lose weight. 5) Build proper muscle memory (see step #2) on the ground. 6) Stay current. It's that easy, and that hard. Optionally, you could put fall rate aside and strive for the many other goals you can accomplish with a wingsuit such as: Forward speed Glide ratio/distance Aerobatics Formation/flocking Freeskyflying (aerobatic flocking) Diving (and the subsequent low speeds after dive recovery) Canopy/wingsuit relative work/buzzing Getting new birds in the air Modification experiments BASE Landing with your legs still zipped up (if you really run out of things to do) In other words: Have fun, do your personal best, and explore all that these amazing suits have to offer. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

I was in the mid 50s for awhile on my GTi, but after getting my S3, flying it a lot, and working my arms out in order to fly it, when I revisit the GTi I get high 40s to low 50s, with the occassional fifteen second sweet spot down to the low 40s, and very temporary (ie, after a swoop) points under 40 for a few seconds. I also have about 180 GTi flights. General, all-purpose GTi flying for those that have less than 100 GTi flights will usually find themselves anywhere in the 50s, and often the low 60s. This can vary depending on one's build. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

I had a PC in tow with a 9' bridle. This was primarily because I dumped in full flight. While it's not the best idea to dump in full flight all the time, there are situations where I like to fly hard right down to pull time (like going for personal distance or time records, or doing canopy/WS RW). The main reason for going up so drastically from 9' is that it's easier to start big and work my way down then it is to start small and lengthen, if needed. Now that I know how well the BASE pouch works, and that bridle length seems to be less of an issue, because the PC is introduced into the air stream and inflates immediately (you can feel it getting ripped out of your hand), I'm going to have two feet chopped off. Not the two feet on my legs, though. I use them sometimes. Thanks for the info. Would the presence of a deployment bag and kill line have had any affect in the situation with that mal? These, of course, would not be used in BASE, but with a d-bag, a kill line, and the same length bridle (and a canopy half the size), do you think that situation would be just as likely? I did express concern to TALONSKY before I first jumped it. I hadn't though of the bridle preventing the canopy from opening completely, but I had thought of it ending on the wrong side of the canopy, both during deployment and during a fast turn (turns ended out not being an issue at all). I also saw horseshoe potential, but hell... no PC in tow. I think 10' will be perfect. That's what Robi has his at, as well. Also, I do know about the whole F-111 and kill line calibration problem. I only use this setup on certain jumps, and I will replace it after 100 uses. I want a kill line so that I won't run into issues with the PC and bridle after the canopy opens, but I also want F-111 so that I can have a PC with a lot of surface area (to prevent a PC in tow), but without the snatch force of a ZP PC of that size. I still use my 9' bridle/28" ZP PC BOC for most jumps, including three of the wingsuit jumps I did yesterday. If this setup does present problems or potential, recognizable problems, I'll have no problem switching it out, eating $90, and writing this off as an experiment. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

I hear max of 90 all the time, but I'm really starting to believe that, even without a tailwind, we're seeing triple digits as we all figure out how to fly these things. That figure was first established when the S3 was still being tested. For max forward speed on the S3, the way to fly now is not really how anyone flew the S3 prototypes or Skyflyers ten months ago. Most people flew for max lift, or a good combination of forward speed and lift, by really rolling the shoulders and throwing in a slight d-arch. That gives you more lift, but also gives you a "fatter" profile. Whereas flying really flat, but slightly head-low with the arms (very) slightly swept back, will up your fall rate a bit, but will significantly increase your forward speed. It also depends on the flyer's weight and leg length (and therefore tail size). Kirk's tail is about as big as my entire suit. OK, not really, but it is significantly larger than mine, absolutely and proportionately. Maybe that handful of test flyers did not have a suit shaped like this with a flyer having the dimensions of the many people out there. It's not unlikely that the suit was developed with an unknown potential. Did anyone ever think that the S3 (prototype, in this case), would be flown for over two minutes from a cliff? I'm really starting to believe that even though the S3 was design without the expectation of exceeding 90 MPH forwards in no wind, that limit is becoming a thing of the past. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

Nice! Lots of first flights this last weekend all over the world. Took a friend of up for his first two flights, and am letting him borrow my GTi this week (he works at the DZ). Another addict. He was so enamoured with the flight that he forgot to do... well... anything. He did his practice pulls and had good on-heading deployments for both jumps (the most important part of first jumps), but on the first one, he just kept flying in a straigt line, the opposite direction of the DZ. I'd fly over to him, point to the right, and turn right, but he kept going straight. I did this three times. I popped up to keep an eye on him while giving me enough altitude to make it back after he deployed. He dumped and I hauled ass back to the DZ. Good thing we had a Sabre 170 on him. He dumped almost two miles away from the DZ (upwind), but made it back no problem. He did much better on the second flight (in terms of both blight and navigation). And the flock continues to grow. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

Where can we find results for distance and accuracy? I saw speed, but can't find the others. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

All hail TALONSKY as your new distance god! Jumped with Kirk (TALONSKY) a couple times today. I need to get another video camera to capture the insane distance on video. I was really, really impressed by the massive glide ratio. In terms of forward speed, he's doing some amazing things. Try to catch him. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

So I've put my BASE PC pouch to use. 32" F-111 PC and 12' bridle. The bridle length may be excessive, but I'll be damned if I get another PC in tow. This setup allows me to dump in full flight, even if my arms get tired. I love it. It's just too damn easy. I had the shrivel flap stitched to the bridle permanently. The (slight) potential for horseshoes or messed up openings is definitely there otherwise if the shrivel flap is not bartacked or stitched down. I've switched back to my 9' bridle and 28" bridle to do some Pantz stuff and hop and pops and high pulls tomorrow (just got a new canopy and Pantz, and it is as addictive as my WS). Switching bridles, even with with just one d-bag, is quick and easy enough to make it worth it (and safer) to go with the two setups. Now that I'm able to push my flight right down to when I deploy, I'm adding a good ten or twenty seconds or to my time in the air. Though, foregoing aerobatics is recommended. I found that as I went to deploy, I'd only get the PC about halfway out before it would get yanked out of my hand (pulling from the BASE PC pouch puts the PC into the airstream immediately). If you're on your back and any PC is exposed, I could imagine it slipping out (as the BASE PC pouch is not spandex). Also, holding onto to PC too long, at least with this size, caused some heavy drag on the right side, inducing a line twist. Letting it go right away was not an issue. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

Did I call it or did I call it? Damn. I should have put money on that. Edited to add: Thanks for the XLS. That's pretty damn nuts to average 60+ MPH across the entire distance. Too bad Luigi had a vertical. He would have been up there otherwise. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

Maybe you're not flying a wingsuit hard enough. ;) Doing 40 down and 90 forwards does NOT feel like doing 80 to 90 in both directions. A track, even a good one, feels a lot closer to normal freefall than a proper wingsuit flight. A crappy wingsuit flight can feel like a good track, but I have yet have the pure flight feeling I get from wingsuit flying matched by a track, and my fall rate is pretty much always between the high 70s and the low 90s (depending on what I'm wearing, of course) on non-wingsuit flights. No offense, I just disagree. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

RealTV only pays $800 (for ownership). No royalties. There are a few people whose lives, IMO, are worth 800 bucks, but I think most people would put that value on themselves. Regarding the the fall rate of the guy on the motorcycle... 35 or 40 MPH is incorrect. Falling fifteen feet doesn't put you at 35 MPH down. It's more like 10 - 15 MPH. While the forward speed is definitely nuts, the reason why your friend can walk away with with no more than road rash (if anything), is because they are not meeting with much resistance. If they had collided with a solid object while moving that fast forwards, they'd be seriously injured or killed. The only resistance with which they are meeting is the air at their high forward speed and the ground at their low fall rate (give or take a bit due to spinning, angle of strike, etc). "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click

That seriously sucks that Luke is out. It's no surprise that he took distance in the qualifier. Dammit. I bet he would have taken distance for the whole thing, as well. Weren't Eames and Andy Farrington in there, as well? The whole Xaos team rocks at distance. I also won't be surprised if Heath takes speed. That is, if he wins for speed... not that he takes speed, er... shut up. "¯"`-._.-¯) ManBird (¯-._.-´"¯" Click