Bignugget

Lol he tea bagged her grave. She was probably a nice enough old lady before she died. Too bad her son is such a tool.

Epic. Well done Satan worshippers. Not a phrase you get to say every day.

Okay, let's begin the discussion there. Yes, firearms are designed to end life. My turn to make a point: Ending a life (human or otherwise) isn't necessarily a bad thing all the time. It can actually be a moral, justified, and beneficial action. Your turn. Let me start by saying, I don't believe violence is moral, justified, or beneficial. As far as ending life goes, Agreed. Hunting for food isn't (in my eyes immoral). I am for assisted and unassisted suicide, and support womens' right to choose to end pregnancy. Those are a few examples I can think of where I support ending life. I wouldn't argue with you that sometimes ending life is the most humane thing to do for someone or something. Guns are a great tool to use to end life. No argument there. They were designed for a purpose and serve that purpose quite well. Does that mean I think we should have 280 million floating around? No. My problem is the job itself, not the tool. Since the job itself (ending life, violently or otherwise) is never going to go away, in my eyes having 280 million less ways to do it, is a good thing. Some of you passionately disagree, that's fine. I would still try to help you out were I to witness someone committing acts of violence against you. But maybe its just how I was raised. And how do you propose the removal of "280 mil" guns to be carried out? Well step one is get people to agree that having 280 million less ways to kill each other is a good thing, not a bad thing. Step 2, elect me supreme dictator general. ----But in all honesty---- I am perfectly aware i am an idealist. I know they will never remove 280 million guns from the United States..... It doesn't change my belief that the world and specifically the United States would be better off with 280 million less ways to kill each other.

Ah. So your point depends on a magic wand being waved and all the unjustified violence and the need for justified responses to it disappearing. Guns are just a side issue, it seems. It's a pleasant thought, but not really one that can be argued over in a practical sense. No need to beat my head against a wall trying to convince you otherwise, then. Not at all what I said. In fact I said violence will never disappear. Emphasis added to my original comments in case you missed it.

Okay, let's begin the discussion there. Yes, firearms are designed to end life. My turn to make a point: Ending a life (human or otherwise) isn't necessarily a bad thing all the time. It can actually be a moral, justified, and beneficial action. Your turn. Let me start by saying, I don't believe violence is moral, justified, or beneficial. As far as ending life goes, Agreed. Hunting for food isn't (in my eyes immoral). I am for assisted and unassisted suicide, and support womens' right to choose to end pregnancy. Those are a few examples I can think of where I support ending life. I wouldn't argue with you that sometimes ending life is the most humane thing to do for someone or something. Guns are a great tool to use to end life. No argument there. They were designed for a purpose and serve that purpose quite well. Does that mean I think we should have 280 million floating around? No. My problem is the job itself, not the tool. Since the job itself (ending life, violently or otherwise) is never going to go away, in my eyes having 280 million less ways to do it, is a good thing. Some of you passionately disagree, that's fine. I would still try to help you out were I to witness someone committing acts of violence against you. But maybe its just how I was raised.

Well obviously I wouldn't wander out onto a battlefield....thats pretty fuckin dumb in general but even more so if you are unarmed, high, and eating cheetos.....

Opinions vary. Something about opinions and assholes... ---------------------------------------------------------- It is to obvious that he hates the tool for no reason and cant come up with a real arguement. When backed into a cornor, brings pot into a discussion that isnt about it and generally cant make a arguement and keeps going to the premise that they are bad. He has a myopic opinion that everyone goes to the grocery and buys steaks out of the freezer. I understand the want for a utopia, but I do believe as everyone has pointed out, that this tool actually helps create a better society. It appears as though that arguement is lost on him. Hoplophobia. That is all it is. Have fun skydiving, Bignugget. I am headed out to do the same. No skydiving today for me ;[ Hate might be a bit strong. I would certainly say: I disagree passionately that 280 million guns in the United States makes the world a better place. I keep going to the premise that they were designed to end life....because that's where the discussion should begin.

Well no, in my version it is Post-revolutionary war. I suppose it can be at anytime in your episode.

Nice! All the replies are pretty in line with my goal, get the brain turning. Airtwardo just quoted me in another thread were I said "I don't think that means we need 280 million guns" he replied 'opinions vary' Aptly said. That's why I think an episode like this would have been such an entertaining one, and a repeatable one. Does the United States develop more or less peacefully without 280 million guns proliferating? Does the United States still stand as the biggest arms dealer in the world, do we still go invade other countries to impose our will simply because we have the technology/means/culture to allow for it? I thought the point about WHEN the culture shift came along was interesting. That could swing the outcome pretty wildly I think. Since the founding fathers were educated and grown in Europe where using guns as a way to get your will was an old accepted practice....maybe it was ALREADY ingrained in our society before we even HAD one....That is certainly some food for thought. Would we be a society of pointy stick murderers (for you Kennedy)? Would we still have a bustling 1st world economy with many of the worlds biggest corporations calling the USA home? Or would they deem USA too sketchy to work out of? I loved that show, I was bummed when it got cancelled. I was just a kid when it was on. I think sci fi in general is neat. Using extraordinary stories to try and explore very ordinary social issues.

I figured you wouldn't understand the reference, so I edited it for you. Sometimes the weaker one loses out. That's just life. His question implied both were unarmed, and the one simply physically outmatches the other. Life sucks sometimes. I don't think that means we need 280 million guns.

On a personal note, I would love to see some dude dress up as the Joker and go into a dark movie theater with a bow and arrow (or a discus). I imagine he would do just about as much damage.

Then you claim they make the world worse? Or they have 0 impact on day to day life? I claim hammers make the world better. They allow us to build shit. A hammers' sole purpose for design was not to kill/maim life.

The fact remains guns are meant to kill things. 280 million products floating around designed to end life isn't all rainbows and butterflies I agree. I would still help you if you were being attacked, i'm not a dickhead just because I hold an opposite opinion on whether guns improve the world or not, I guess that doesn't hold true across the spectrum.

I know you guys might not realize this, so Ill point it out directly. Shooting bambi in the face, generally ends bambis life. guns have no purpose EXCEPT to end life. Thats why the Secret Service choose GUNS as their weapon of choice against a would be assassin of your beloved Obama. They are most effective at ending the life of someone/thing. Guns weren't designed to "shoot targets at the olympics" the olympic sport was developed to SHOWCASE how well people are at shooting a tiny target (you know, like the heart of an animal or person) Yep...same with javelin. The javelin wasn't developed so that people could practice throwing shit a long way. The spear was developed to kill things, and then they developed CONTESTS to compete and further the skill set of throwing a spear to kill things.

We could sit down and debate guns over a bowl of lentil soup!

Legit. I shall attempt this in the next week or so. Sounds damn tasty.

about the Cheetos? Ban guns because they are designed/built/meant to kill things. Killing things is bad, mom said it and I believe it.

Emergency preparedness (Prepare to kill people or animals) Commerce and employment (Yep, sold as a means to kill things) Historical preservation and study (I guess?, not really what they were intended for I don't think.) Obtaining food by hunting (Yep, by killing bambi) Collecting (sorta falls under preservation and study) (All these to make you more proficient at killing something with a gun) Olympic competition Sporting pursuits Target practice Recreational shooting The gun is designed to kill shit, thats its purpose. The joint is designed to relax you and make you eat Cheetos. When I am world dictator general, first order of business is collecting 280 million guns, and distributing 280 million joints (and buy the cheeto factory).

"And yes, while I'm talking olive branches, it would go a long way if firearm rights advocates would acknowledge that guns are purpose-built as weapons. They are designed to break inanimate objects and turn animate objects into inanimate objects" So you agree with me. Legit.

I am open to suggestions. What other uses does a gun have?

I've never tried lentils. Wiki says: With about 30% of their calories from protein, lentils have the third-highest level of protein, by weight, of any legume or nut, after soybeans and hemp Nifty! Mind posting the recipe you use? Might give it a twirl. Can never go wrong with pork / chicken

Its there in my reply. Eliminate 280 million things used only to end life. Thats the reason why. Force murderers to get creative.

So there was a show years back 'SLIDERS' and the premise was basically that you could open a portal and slide to a different dimension where the Earth and its inhabitants were there, but something was fundamentally different. So... We have slid into a new dimension, and instead of a 2nd amendment saying we have a right to bear arms....there is a 2nd amendment that says: No one has the right to bear arms. The country has developed without the gun culture embedded in 'our' America. How does this episode of Sliders play out? Is there a government? Are we embroiled in a crazy civil war? Do we have more/less violence? How about entertainment, are there action movies? (obviously just the start of some questions to get your minds moving, take it wherever you want) Sit down, smoke a joint, have a beer, or in Gravitymaster's case, none of those and throw out your version of America that was founded with no right to bear arms, and a culture developed around no guns. Ill go first: I imagine that LEO and the Military are still well armed, as well as National Guard or the Slider equivalent. Beyond that I imagine a less violence obsessed society developed over hundreds of years to mediate conflict without resorting to murder. Government is based less on fear mongering and more on the ability to actually resolve social issues. ---- Feel free to tear into my version but I would personally rather just read about your version.

No one is 'blaming the gun'. That is ridiculous. Reasonable people can understand that with 0 guns on the streets, the likelihood of being killed by a gun is much smaller than when there are 280 MILLION guns around. While banning all cars from the roads would have an ENORMOUS impact on the way the country operates day to day. Removing ALL GUNS from the USA wouldn't, people would continue to live pretty much as normal. There will still be plenty of assholes who want to kill people, and they will have to find new, more creative, ways to do it.