jbscout2002

No, we don't. We are concerned enough to require driver ed, licensing, vehicle registration, vehicle testing in most states, strict rules about vehicle design and safety features, DUI laws, eyesight tests... The comparison is a very stupid one designed to make unacceptable outcomes seem acceptable. I have actually, several times pointed out where you have lied or made stuff up. With a level of pettiness rivaling even that of yours, right here. Simply untrue. Many states do not require drivers Ed at all. It wasn't even offered in my school.

So is it false that you get a gun permit and then are allowed to have up to 3 personal firearms per person? Then in addition to this, every male from the age of 17-35 is in a conscritp Army functioning kind of like a National Guard and that each member keeps their service weapon at their house? Do you have gun clubs that hold marksmanship classes and sponsor sharpshooting competitions? Is this even in the ball park? I was all ready to narrow my collection down to 3 and start looking at property there

How about we do what other countries are doing who don't have this problem? What are they doing differently that causes the stark incredible difference in violent gun death and incidences? Switzerland. They have it figured out. Per capita, they have the highest rate of gun ownership in Europe, but the lowest rate of gun violence. There is a culture there of introducing children to guns in a controlled environment and teaching them about shooting and gun safety. Instead of trying to demonize guns, kids start joining gun clubs as young as 12 years old. Guns are common, available, a major pastime sport, and NORMAL. Here we demonize them. We try to keep hem away from everyone. Some people want one just cause they can't have it.it is nice to see Switzerland cited as an example but this is not really how it works. Trying to find where I got that from. Was a whole piece comparing all the European countries. But just saw this HOW GUN CONTROL MADE ENGLAND THE 'MOST VIOLENT COUNTRY IN EUROPE' http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2014/09/24/how-gun-control-made-england-the-most-violent-country-in-europe/ Let people read that if they want. I'll look at it in the morning. I have a good list of things to look into for tomorrow.

I see your point, but point number 2 is dancing with the devil. Stir up enough come scare and there will be national gun reform, eve if by executive order. The Obama grab your guns one, NRA didn't even have to say anything with that. When he was pushing gun lesislation on the hill a few years back, the immediate reaction was, anything you've been thinking you might want some day, you better buy it before it's too late. I ordered an upper receiver for an M4 in 2013 and there was a 16 month wait fm a company that usually ships in 2 weeks. Now the common joke at the shooting range is that Obama was he best gun salesman this country has ever seen.

And then a bunch of getting caught up in a childish game of defending myself from personal attacks by this joker who thinks he is the copy paste polic

Yes I have been amusing myself with sarcasm. I goal was to debate whether gun control was the answer to the violence problem. I have tried to offer up ideas for plugging holes in he system, standardizing and streamline the way guns are bought, sold, transferred, ect. I have also made attempts to point out a lot of the gun problem is simply outside he realm of the law. Other strategies need to be used. It isn't as simple as make the guns illegal. Nothing is ever that simple. I've tried to offer up better gun control and accountability methods that gun owners would be completely fine with, that would achieve the gun control objectives. In doing is, I've attempted to show why I feel this ideal to hold truth by looking for numbers that support it. I've tried to debunk that catch-all phrases and explain my thoughts on why hey are wrong. I also got fat rated and reverted to the other sides catch-all phrases. I copy/pasted or posted links to articles that explain numbers to support it. Any ideas I have tried to offer for solutions are off the cuff that would maybe speak an idea in someone else who is better at constructing them than me

Yes I have been amusing myself with sarcasm. I goal was to debate whether gun control was the answer to the violence problem. I have tried to offer up ideas for plugging holes in he system, standardizing and streamline the way guns are bought, sold, transferred, ect. I have also made attempts to point out a lot of the gun problem is simply outside he realm of the law. Other strategies need to be used. It isn't as simple as make the guns illegal. Nothing is ever that simple. I've tried to offer up better gun control and accountability methods that gun owners would be completely fine with, that would achieve the gun control objectives.

Only thing is, logically, he NRA stands the most to gain by figuring out laws that will curb violence. They should do everything in their power to find every number and statistic of very kind and figure out ways to put a dent in it. The would take a lot of pressure off of the gun rights part and cast a little good PR on em that they could undoubtedly use.

It's a perfect example of why nothing ever changes or gets fixed. Both sides come to the table with good intentions and well thought out plans, and 5 minutes later they are calling each other poo poo heads clamming up in their shells, then they come out of it with us posed about some dumb modification we have to make to our guns and they are pissed because no real restrictions were applied.

This is two years old. Next..... Here you go. 2014 data - the LATEST for which data are available. Murders per 100,000 population from the FBI www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/table-6 Chicago 15.1 LA 5.4 Kansas City 16.7 Miami 19.1 Detroit 43.5 Baltimore 33.8 Jackson MS 35.4 Memphis TN 21.4 How does that crow taste? So from the data you have shown here, one would obviously reach the conclusion that from 2013-2014, the murder rates in Chicago have dropped from 15.3 per 100,000 to 15.1 per 100,000. This conclusively shows a correlation between the CCW permits being issued in early 2014, and the decline in murders until the point of this data being collected. See? I told you that you had it in you. Just be honest with yourself, be objective, and present the facts as they are. And now you have proved my 22 page argument to be right. That was 2014, the last complete year the FBI compiled its data. AS I STATED AND AS YOU REQUESTED. 2015 has seen a surge in gun homicides (and not only in Chicago). SOURCE: www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/07/09/us-cities-homicide-surge-2015/29879091/ SOURCE: abc7chicago.com/news/chicago-violence-strategy-to-track-illegal-guns/1011155/ So with over 100,000 CCWs issued, we now see homicides and shootings rising. Just like I stated previously. See how easy it is to back up your claims with sources. You should try it sometime. Ok high speed, 2015 isn't over yet so nothing for this year would be conclusive LIKE YOU SAID. You are starting to undo your progress. You're backsliding. I'm going to go ahead and end the lesson. Continue to talk at me, about me, make stuff up, act like you didn't notice this thread started off with someone exaggerating a body count. Never mind that tho, it make guns look scary right, you have 15 post pointing out that my number of months was off by what, 3? I believe I actually said 12-18, and the best Numbers I can find put it at 9 months which you insist at first wast immediate, and then 8 months. You keep try to cach people in wording and all you have done is dig little holes that out are twisting your own ankle in. Really, stop backsliding.

Billvon, on the link you provided I kinda skimmed it quickly but it reads like almost all the available material. This one reads like a conspiracy theory that the NRA is forcing the hand of the Senate to bully the CDC by using budget against them. The next one will have scientific research that conclusively shows this and that and this is why guns are good. Even being the poster child for gun owners, I try to find real data and three lines in it's like, ok obviously they are convincing me we need to destroy all guns, but the next one starts out a little more positive and then dwindles into some of the NRAs rhetoric. Maybe I should set out to do a thesis doing everything I can to prove the theory of stricter gun control and find my opposite to try and prove gun control would be counter productive and ineffective and see what we both come up with at the end.

One last thing. Little Jonny, if you need someone else to fact check, post numeral uno. I noticed when something fits your agenda, you just silently hope no one notices. Get em boy. My sharp new butterfly spread your wings, use your new imperial data to set the non believers straight! And do some of that fine fact checking. Why are you reply to me on something written by someone else? Confused? I know you're confused. I've already blown your mind today. Go ahead and take yourself a recess break

Nuh uh. I want to prevent mass shootings. I disagree that the majority of the proposed gun control strategies will fix it. I believe, in my heart of hearts, due to stigma, lack of understanding, and a focus that is slightly off target are going to, for lack of better words, screw up my gun rights. Gun control advocate think I'm unreasonable and say this is a compromise we can all live with. So now I can't own a pistol, which sucks, because they are fun to shoot and there great pistol competitions set up that I like to compete in. Then I can have this, then that, then that. Now I'm out here jumping through hoops, paying extra fees, getting permits, doing whatever so I can own my one allotted musket. So after the damage has been done to me, if we ever realize this was the wrong approach, too bad. Historically, gun laws stack up really slowly, but once they are there, they don't go away. For the most part. I know the Brady bill had an expiration date, but generally Anywho, after all is said and done, I think the mass shootings are still going to happen. They will happen with the illegal street gun or ghost gun (haven't seen this boogyman gun yet).

Stop all production and sales, ban everything. Successfully stop anything from crossing the border. Close all machine stops. Ban all ammo. A rough estimate is 80 million Americans owning 300 million guns. Demand total confiscation. How many of the 80 million will keep one or two tucked away or simply not line up to turn them over? Gonna go door to door and search every house? You don't care about 2nd Amendment, but now you're really letting your rights go. Looking for my guns they are going to find your little bag of weed, your wife's giant jackhammer dildo, your illegal pocket knife, the expired muscle relaxers you were saving just in case your back flared up again. (This is not you personally but you get what I'm saying) I'm afraid to make a positive change you are going to have to work WITH us and not AGAINST us.

There are guns sold in countries all over the world. Sneak one across the Mexican border rather than legally importing it, and it is completely untraceable. It is illegal because there is no record of it, no paper trail, it was never legal to begin with. They will come in even if we have a total gun ban and confiscate all "known" guns in the U.S. Same applies with a ghost gun. A machineist can carve plastic templates and build an exact replica from scratch. Do this without obtaining a BATF&E document assigning a serial number to that gun, it is a gun that a 14 year old banger is taking to school but doesn't "technically exist". Take every gun out of America and people will make a fortune build these in their basements.

Nope - he cut and pasted a long article from ACRU without giving any credit. The link in his first sentence was to something else altogether and was actually part of the article he plagiarized. He didn't put the cut/paste job in quotation marks. He didn't put it in a Quote box. He didn't put it in italics, another way to suggest it wasn't his own writing. He made NO reference to its source. He didn't even say it was from somewhere else. He just posted it as if it was his own writing. Finally, and only after being called on it and first denying it, he posted the link . Apparently YOU didn't bother to read what was posted OR to check your facts either. I have also not seen one post from you where you offer a single number or statistic with any hint of a reference. I have also not actually seen any contribution to the discussion at all other than to try and say I'm lying. N From the article you quoted... The countries that have gun control but high death rates are the likes of Brazil and Estonia. Most intelligent people would compare the U.S. to the developed Western countries. The comparison to russia (murders 4 times the rates of the U.S.) included the period when Russia was transitioning from the Soviet Union and the Mafia were all over the place. Perhaps comparing murder rates to the time America was being colonised and the Indians were being murdered might be more reasonable. Currently Russia has about twice the number of murders as the U.S. does. But Russia is also a country where those who are well connected or have enough money for bribes can literally get away with murder. I would suggest that if all people faced consequences of their crimes in Russia, the murder rate would drop very significantly. The article is flawed, is selectively picking statistics to support the point of view that lots of guns do not equal more deaths. We have mob killings in the U.S. also. There are still Indians being murdered today, both Native Americans and people from India. What is gun control in Brazil, no more than one gun per hand? Using the honor system to enforce it? Probably not a good example of "low" gun violence

It would be really interesting to see factual data of gun related homicides, where the gun being used was legally obtained and possessed. Like if the only law being broken during the incident is the homicide itself. What would he numbers be? There will still be some, people will still want to strive for a number of zero, but what would it be? But good luck with that study. Gun control advocates don't want to portray numbers that way because it takes he wind out of their sails. Pro gun rights people will skew it the same way.

common street crime is also a problem well defined by the easy access to guns both legally and illegally. stop pretending that common street crime with guns is not a problem. it is. and it is a gun problem as well. common street criminals did not have such easy access 50 years ago, they used knives and baseball bats and the numbers of deaths were far lower than they are today. I don't disagree with this. While there is no way to estimate numbers of illegal weapons on the streets, I believe that a much higher percentage of gun violence takes place with the use of illegal guns than legal ones. By illegal, I'm referring to these ghost guns, stolen guns, and guns that have been smuggled across the border. With that being said, the gun laws for the most part would be effectively thwarting gun violence. Penalties are so harsh hat average joe law abiding citizen won't dare break them. So if these guns on the streets being used in drive bys and traded on the corner for a chunk of crack are outside of the laws anyways, the refining laws, or changing laws, or adding them won't do anything. To stop that is like stoping drugs. It's all illegal, but it is big business and hey are constantly changing hands. It would take undercover "stings" or "a war on (illegal) guns" if you will.

One last thing. Little Jonny, if you need someone else to fact check, post numeral uno. I noticed when something fits your agenda, you just silently hope no one notices. Get em boy. My sharp new butterfly spread your wings, use your new imperial data to set the non believers straight! And do some of that fine fact checking.

I know I'll never reach all the hippies, but I know that if I can show just one of them the light, that I have done my job. I can now go to be knowing I made the world that much better. I am so proud of you. With that, I bid you farewell.

That is how learning is done teacher. No child left behind. I don't just simply give you the answer, I encourage you to put in the work and draw your own conclusions in pursuit of the answer. Some students just take a little more guiding than others to reach the final answer. Like they say in the Army. 10 percent of your Soldiers will take up 90 percent of your time.

You do realize that you are commenting on your own post. That is the biggest comedy here. Yes, in order to avoid cluttering up the DZ.com server the endless pages of quoted quoted quoted quotes of quoted quotes.

This is two years old. Next..... Here you go. 2014 data - the LATEST for which data are available. Murders per 100,000 population from the FBI www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2014/crime-in-the-u.s.-2014/tables/table-6 Chicago 15.1 LA 5.4 Kansas City 16.7 Miami 19.1 Detroit 43.5 Baltimore 33.8 Jackson MS 35.4 Memphis TN 21.4 How does that crow taste? So from the data you have shown here, one would obviously reach the conclusion that from 2013-2014, the murder rates in Chicago have dropped from 15.3 per 100,000 to 15.1 per 100,000. This conclusively shows a correlation between the CCW permits being issued in early 2014, and the decline in murders until the point of this data being collected. See? I told you that you had it in you. Just be honest with yourself, be objective, and present the facts as they are. And now you have proved my 22 page argument to be right.

Pictures I can understand. I figured it was like Cypres = Chevy, Vigil = Ford, and M2 = Toyota or something. If you grew up on one, that is the best one. So what is the best altitude then?

This guy is a comedic gold mine. Talk about writing itself. I can take a print out of this on the road and fund all my jumps with it.