skypuppy

Yes this is true Jessie Sansone has a criminal record (for a non-gun related crime when he was a young adult), he served his time and yes he is prohibited from owning firearms. Well all indications are that he has attempted to reform his life and least in my mind owning a nerf gun is not a crime. I didn't bring up his past because I was not aware that having a criminal record allowed the authorities to violate Mr Sansone's civil rights. Want more? Bruce Montague purposely allowed his firearms license to expire in order to challenge Bill C-68 and how did the Ontario Government respond? They confiscated his house. Mr Montague never used his firearms in a crime and yet here the government was confiscating his property because he had the nerve to stand up to them. Then again the Ontario Government is not exactly the model for a well run Provincial government. Want more? I can't remember his name but there was a terminally ill gun collector in Toronto's who failed to renewed his firearms registration while he lay sick and dying in a Toronto hospice. What did the police do? They broke down the door of his Toronto home, broke the locks of his secured gun lockers and proceeded to cart all these firearms away. Oh and want to know the real crazy thing about this story? Who was there to report what the police were doing on live TV? Oh it was none other than a CBC camera crew. The cops told the CBC about their confiscation plans ahead of time so that the CBC could be there to tell the story about what a horrible this man was for having all those guns in his home. The man has since died ... so he no longer has any use for his collection. But these are just a few samples. But I am sure these examples are not good enough ... It seems to me though, that he had heirs who wanted at least some of the collection, and they weren't allowed to have them. I have also known others who had guns given to them by their parents which were confiscated due to complaints by their exes (unsubstantiated complaints)./ If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

Here is a link for you that should eliminate the hyperbole of soapbox posturing. You may judge for yourself regarding the interaction between Mr. Sansonse and the police. http://www.wrps.on.ca/sites/default/files/Publications/SansonseReport-Final.pdf Thanks for the link, that report clears up quite a bit of my questions about that case. If I were that teacher I would of probably done the samething if I thought one of my students could possibly have access to a gun. I would of passed the info on to the cops just like they did with the child's best interests in mind. Now what the cops did with that info is another matter all together. Mr. Sansonse also gave permission for the police to search his house so no need for a warrant. To me this was all a huge misunderstanding that got blown way out of proportion and as soon as people realized it everything was dropped. Again I will ask is there any cases that someone can reference that saw police or an "inspector" enter and search a legal gun owners home just because he is a legal gun owner? That is probably the scariest statement ive read here, that you agree a 4 year old drawing a picture of a pink bubble gum on a chalkboard (which was erased without being photographed before any of this even went down) is justification for taking kids away from parents, detaining without explanation a pregnant woman etc. There are lots of cases, from neighbor disputes to divorces, where unsubstantiated allegations against a legal firearm owner have led to unwarranted searches and even confiscation of legal firearms without justification. Just down the road from me the cops through a flashbang through a window and entered a house with guns drawn for no reason - the guy inside didn't even know the guys were there. He was held for a few hours before being released, and it may still be before the courts. The guy who just got acquitted of firing warning shots was charged when people actually threw molotov cocktails at his house was actually charged with unsafe storage, even though he'd just fired the gun and then put it down inside the house while waiting for the police. This is assinine. Another case, a guy getting ready to go hunting near thornton was putting his rifle in his car and someone called because he lived close to a school, SWAT showed up and arrested him, roughed him up and strip-searched him in the driveway! That's two from within twenty miles of my house. How many you want? If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

depends what you classify as a real crazy weapon. The AR15 is the most popular sporting rifle in the nation. I don't believe a majority support banning it. If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

Maybe not, but I'm sure that intentionally piloting a vessel in an unsafe manner probably is illegal... If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

Man, you have some weird ideas. This is not true at all... Where peaceful protest of any kind ends and terrorism begins is highly subjective. I guess we could call the idiots at the tea parties who carried guns while Obama showed up terrorists and the non-gun carriers as peaceful dissent. Unless what the gun-carriers are doing is illegal. Now if they're waving their guns around pointing them at people, or verbally threatening them while they're there, then yes, maybe you could call them 'terrorists', but if they're obeying the laws, they're not. If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/20/2758871/floridas-welfare-drug-tests-cost.html http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/18/us/no-savings-found-in-florida-welfare-drug-tests.html 108 of 4,086 is "a lot"? That's 2.6% by my math. I'll grant you that 2.6% is "a lot" in certain circumstances (manufacturing error tolerance, for example) but in this case, seems pretty darned low. But it's a good thing the good taxpayers of Florida aren't subsidizing those drug users anymore. It's definately a higher percentage than the number of homicides done with an AR15, and we're trying to ban them! If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

Self defense. So that's a good thing for Americans. We can invade Canada any time we want and pillage their vast resources of moose. I think the last time you guys tried that we pushed you back and burned down the white house Myself I am neither for or against, but one thing that stood out to me in that story was the girl saying that she lost friends over her guns or that people didn't want to be her friend in the first place because of guns. We as Canadians are pretty easy to get along with and I have never meet anyone who has lost friend's or failed to make friends because they own guns or shoot. I think that girl has other issues as to why she is not making friends, and I doubt it is because she owns or shoots guns. Not surprisingly, I suppose, I disagree. It may very well be something that wouldn't come up if you make a point of not talking about guns at work, etc. But if you're really into it and do talk about it, for sure there are people like that. I'm sure it could have something as well to do with being heavily involved in sports. Even skydivers when they get heavily involved in the sport often seem to have less and less non-jumping friends because of the time commitment and other things, but that doesn't mean there aren't people that won't be friends with someone who promotes a gun culture, just like there are people who won't be friends with a democrat or a republican... Look at Toronto -- they felt so strongly about guns they wouldn't allow them to have anything to do with city buildings, a move that caused the Toronto Sportsman Show to have to relocate after 62 years. Closed down a gun range in Union Station that had been there for years and was a training range for many competitors. Why? There's no logical reason. It's emotion. Guns do indeed seem to bring about a visceral reaction in many around urban southern ontario and toronto, and I'm told, in parts of quebec as well. If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

my wife made the mistake of telling some people at work last year that we'd cut down 10 or 12 trees around the house. You wouldn't believe the moaning and groaning! How could you do that, don't you need a permit, are you gonna plant some more trees to make up for what you cut?> Sheesh. They don't seem to realize we live in the middle of a frigging forest - and that's just our 28 acres. For crying out loud I;d have to go a mile away to find a spot open enuf to land a parachute here, even around the house. But that's not good enuf for the greenies here (unless you maybe wanted to build a windmill). As for the deer, I should probably be shooting them too after what they did to my garden last year. At least the bears haven't been around again since they killed my cat year before last. Around the house, anyways, they're still in the area. If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

Self defense. Why? The odds of me coming across a polar or grizzly bear are pretty slim. what about a rabid fox or racoon? Hasn't happened yet, nor have I heard of any reports of there being any in my neighbourhood. Been a while since I have heard about a rabid fox or raccoon attack. Maybe I should start preparing for that zombie attack too. well, had a rabid fox around here a couple of years ago. Went after a neighbor's pet and he shot it. It had been hanging around for a few days, I'd seen it acting strangely in the middle of the road one afternoon when I was on my way to work. Wouldn't have been a stretch to see it going after a child instead of a neighbors pet, and fortunate anyways that he was home and got it. just because you don't live in a rural area doesn't mean others don't, and it's nice to have the ability to defend your livestock, crops, or household when you do. If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

Self defense. Why? The odds of me coming across a polar or grizzly bear are pretty slim. what about a rabid fox or racoon? If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

While I can see where you're coming from, I have to disagree. I believe the 8 million figure is probably pretty low. I know one buddy who at one time had a collection of over 100 guns (pre-registration). I don't know if he has that many now, but I doubt he registered more than a couple, if any. I also don't know that the 8 million includes guns on first nations properties or reserves -- I have an idea not many of them got registered either, and many may come over the border between new york, ontario and quebec without going through any customs agents. As for being defensive, I mentioned the range I used to shoot at on the university campus ended up being closed down. It's no secret that david miller enacted legislation banning gun clubs or ranges in toronto, resulting in even the gun show having to relocate to a different site after 62 years, and which also closed a long time gun range in Union Station. Miller's ban was later overturned by ford's adminitstration. I know of several hunters in and around this county assaulted and abused by police for having their guns available when anonymous and unsubstantiated complaints were called in, the father arrested last year when his kindergarten aged daughter drew a picture of a super-hero with an imaginary gun. The persistence of the firearms officers in attempting to continue to collect data despite the repeal of the lgr, and openly criticizing the feds for repealing it. Yes, definately there is a huge movement in canada to take away gun rights. I would suggest that out west you may not have the fanatical anti-gunners we have here in quebec and ontario, so you don't notice it as much. If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

I thought this doc about the canadian gun culture was pretty well done. It saddened me a little that when I went to university near where this was shot we had a gun range right on campus, down in the bowels of one of the buildings, but it was closed some years ago. http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/TV+Shows/The+National/ID/2338858905/ If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

one of my buddies in the mid '80's. He was 14 at the time... If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

Basically I agree that the FEW mass shootings we have by mentally ill people are a problem while keeping in mind, like Drew said, there were only 18 out of the adult population of the US that did such in 2012. I don't even know if all 18 of those were done by mentally ill people, or were consequences in some cases of other motives. I also believe the system would have worked better in many cases if the people who did know shooters had acted on concerns they had sooner (Lanza's mom, for one, the psychiatrist in aurora for another). If they HAD reported concerns to the authorities it is quite possible that actions might have been taken to resolve the situations before the shootings. So I guess the main solution I would have is education of the public to keep a better eye out on their close family or friends for abnormal behavior, and report anything alarming when/if they see it. I think by far the majority of homicides are carried out by criminals because that is the world they live in, and that will continue despite increased gun control. Therefore I don't see mass shootings by the mentally ill as as big a problem as you seem to. It would be nice to have an easy solution, but there isn't one. And taking away the rights of many in order to target the rights of a few (while not even enforcing other laws that may already prohibit these few from having guns) is not acceptable. If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

Maybe you should look up some stuff about Egypt before the arab spring. It was pretty much seen as a huge success story. As was sarajevo when it held the olympics, before civil war broke out... The ancient brits probably thought they had it pretty good before the romans or the vikings showed up. Doesn't take much to push any country into a crisis, and then you should be prepared. I don't need to look up some 'stuff' I've first hand experience you should try it some time works wonders. My bad. I guess I assumed if someone has as much first hand experience as you say you do, they aren't so quick to judge people from other countries like you seem to in the first posts.... If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

are you on drugs? what the hell does this have to do with anything being discussed here? If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

Canada got rid of their registry for the following reasons In the years it was in place no information from that registry helped solve any crime and it was costing them billions And crime rates have been dropping So the number of guns does not make crime go up So whats the real point? Canada did indeed use the registry to confiscate guns when the police decided to 'reclassify' weapons that were initially legal to make them 'prohibited', and also when collectors passed away and the weapons couldn't stay in the estate. There were also cases of weapons which were confiscated or turned in ending up in the private collections of LEO's, and cases of the registry data ending up in private hands where it was available to public, furnishing a nice shopping list for someone who might not want to actually have to pay retail prices for weapons. Even though the federal gov't has done the right thing (finally) and abolished the long gun registry, we are still having to fight against the left's forces of evil as some provinces and their police administrations attempt to create back door registries against the spirit of the new federal regulations. amazing isn't it? Yet so many want to do it here when ALL the history recorded on the subject does not end good I have been following the continuing war up there Did the one province win the court case to keep the data on its people? Still under appeal I believe. I heard last that it would probably be 3-5 years in courts before it's settled and the feds would have to hand over the data. In that case, given that many gunowners are quickly trading weapons among themselves, all the data on serial numbers, addresses etc. will be out of date. But they will still have the addresses and contact info of many owners. That said, there is nothing to stop individual provinces from starting to collect their own data regardless of the outcome of the federal long gun registry anyways. If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

Maybe you should look up some stuff about Egypt before the arab spring. It was pretty much seen as a huge success story. As was sarajevo when it held the olympics, before civil war broke out... The ancient brits probably thought they had it pretty good before the romans or the vikings showed up. Doesn't take much to push any country into a crisis, and then you should be prepared. If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

Probably the gov't in egypt and syria actually thought they were doing everything for the people in their countries as well. You have a problem with standing up against people taking away your rights? then again, I guess chamberlain folded pretty easily, too. If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

Canada got rid of their registry for the following reasons In the years it was in place no information from that registry helped solve any crime and it was costing them billions And crime rates have been dropping So the number of guns does not make crime go up So whats the real point? Canada did indeed use the registry to confiscate guns when the police decided to 'reclassify' weapons that were initially legal to make them 'prohibited', and also when collectors passed away and the weapons couldn't stay in the estate. There were also cases of weapons which were confiscated or turned in ending up in the private collections of LEO's, and cases of the registry data ending up in private hands where it was available to public, furnishing a nice shopping list for someone who might not want to actually have to pay retail prices for weapons. Even though the federal gov't has done the right thing (finally) and abolished the long gun registry, we are still having to fight against the left's forces of evil as some provinces and their police administrations attempt to create back door registries against the spirit of the new federal regulations. If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

With perhaps a few exceptions, the majority of gun deaths since newtown have probably been gangbangers, drug incidents or robberies. Are we to assume that all gangbangers are insane because in their world things are settled with guns? In their world, settling things with guns could probably be termed 'normal'. If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

As I said, in the example, the point was that 99 out the hundred might not be loonies. In fact, some people might argue that even someone who had sort of fleshed out a plan (say in the guise of a fiction assignment, etc.) or gotten ahold of weapons, might not necessarily carry out any attacks on society, and therefore not merit losing any rights. That has happened many times as well. And again, how long do you bar their access? 5 years? 10 years? Life? If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

I think the point I was trying to make is that 99 out of the 100 aren't necessarily loonies. But I guess you missed that. Maybe you would be more at home somewhere where you can lock up whoever doesn't think the way you do. If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

Negative. Please do a thorough search and quote where I've ever said anything even remotely like that. No. There is a multi-dimension range of mental illness and I've never said all were violent. I've never even suggested it. However, there is, without a doubt in my mind a slice of mental illness that can be diagnosed as having violent tendencies. There is another slice where they simply do not know the difference between reality and fantasy. There is another slice who get sexually aroused by the sight of small children. There is a collection of slices which includes these and others that are not fit to own a weapon of any sort because of the danger they pose to society. So You can identify them? No. I'd leave that to the professionals. I've said so in the past. As a society, we leave it up to professionals to determine if people are fit for any one of a number of tasks. Why would this be any different? I've heard the professionals, and the ones I've heard say they cannot predict who will carry out mass murder. To give an example. Many children are bullied. Some children who are bullied grow up to get a gun, go to school, and shoot up a bunch of others because either they bullied the kid specifically or they didn't stop the kid from being bullied. Let's say that it's one in a hundred bullied kids that does this for sake of argument. The professionals say that while most or many school shooters may fit this profile, most kids who fit this profile do not grow up to do this. So you are ok with taking the rights away from the 99 out of 100 bullied students, in order to prevent the 1 out of 100 who might try to carry out a mass murder? All the professionals I've heard talk about this say the same thing. Many or most shooters have some characteristics. But many many people in society also have those same characteristics, and most do NOT go get a gun and shoot up a school. So for a professional, absent evidence that a shooter has already begun to form a plan and carry it out (ie made threats, made maps of a target, bought or made weapons) it is pretty much impossible to form an accurate assessment that the subject will or will not be violent. In Aurora, the shooter actually had started making plans and buying guns, and it seems the psychiatrist was aware of this, notifying campus security BUT NOT THE POLICE. If she'd notified police, perhaps the shooting could have been avoided. But generally, such mental health professionals, like medical professionals don't want to take away people's rights unless they absolutely sure there is immenent threat. If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone

I wasn't commenting on harper or federal programs. I was commenting on the green energy plan brought in by the mcguilty liberals in ontario to bankrupt the province.... If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone