obelixtim

Ah...I get it....some old fart has put you in your place some time. So...If Jaques Cousteau (you know who he was, right?) came along and gave some newbie scuba diver advice that he was not ready for deep dives, then his opinion should be ignored? You realise, of course, that the reason you don't jump roundies any more, is maybe because the guys who did jump them way back then, realised that there might be a better way to do things, and adapted accordingly? That the KAP 3 and Sentinal 2000 could be improved? (You know what they are, I take it) Or shot and a half, and two shots could be retired? (You know what all those are too....Right? ) Some of who are still around, "holding things back" Those guys? You can dismiss the experience of those who have been there, done that, yet you yourself, are not prepared to put yourself in the firing line to change things for the better. But its OK sit on the side lines and take pot shots at those that do. Just because they're old dinosaurs. Thanks for clearing that up. You've been most helpful. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

There isn't one, and since the USPA has issued its edict, DZO's have no choice but to enforce it or expose themselves to liability. As for the rest, if that sort of stuff picks at your heartstrings, you need to find a new hobby. You know what is really messed up? Not adults who have chosen to participate in a dangerous and highly lethal sport, kids, crushed and burned in cars because their parents were drunk/texting/etc #EMS, so if you want to play the gore game I'm pretty sure I've got you beat. And I'll go on to make a wager. No one reading this forum has EVER seen someone (non-BASE) go in because of a GoPro. And where do you think the 200 jump number came from? Randomly selected? That number has been generally accepted around the world, for years before USPA issued its edict. Do you know why? Designed deliberately to annoy those with mad skilz? Skydiving has been my sport, my profession, my hobby since 1974. It sort of ruins my day when someone smashes themselves up on the DZ, sometimes for no fault of their own. It really annoys me when said event occurs through stupidity or carelessness. I'm not there to babysit people, but it is sometimes necessary. I accept that. Its my job. Part of the deal. I also pretty much accepted early on that it was a dangerous activity done by consenting adults. Accidents/incidents/injuries and death can happen at any time. I've seen too many, and its my job to deal with the aftermath. I'd prefer not to have to do that, because yes, it ruins my day. Skydiving only exists because a few (very few in fact) people are prepared to take responsibility for the lives of the people in their care, on the DZ, and it has always been that way. As to your wager....you've lost. Watched a mad skilz dude at a boogie hook it in with a go pro. He was lucky (or maybe not) because he lived (now in a wheelchair) Filming his shadow!!! And you didn't answer my question. How many lives have you taken responsibility for on the DZ? I'll wager the answer, for you, is a big, fat zero. You post does nothing but enable the inexperienced, gullible or idiotic to try something that in the early stages of jumping is beyond their capability. Try walking in the shoes of your DZOs for a few years, and then come here and give your (valid) opinion. As someone else has as their avatar, "the rules are written in blood". They aren't just pulled out of someones arse. The people who make them are skydivers too. Don't forget that. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

OK, I'll bite!!! Please tell us how many broken/smashed/marmalised idiots you have picked/scraped up off the ground? You know, the ones with blood, bones, brains and guts hanging out. And do tell us how many lives you are responsible for, every minute, of every day, at the dropzone. And please tell us hardliners your foolproof method of identifying idiots, and how to make our DZs idiot proof. It would help. Your advice doesn't. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

On another note....to the OP. As a skydiver, we should always be looking out for each other on the DZ. Whether its a friend, stranger, newbie or old fart, if we see something that concerns us, especially safety wise, it is beholden on all of us to take some action/say something/bring it to the attention of someone in authority on the DZ. Skydiving is terribly unforgiving of mistakes. You've had plenty of feedback on this thread, which shows you which direction to take. The fact that this is your husband, and you owe him some loyalty, is irrelevant. This is a clear safety issue, and as such, in this instance, you need to bring this to the attention of someone in authority on the DZ, if he goes ahead with his plan and nobody picks up on it. It might, (probably will) cause a shitfight between you, but its a bit late when he's busted up in the hospital, or worse, for you to regret not speaking out. For his sake, your sake, and the sake of the DZ and other jumpers, you need to make sure he doesn't get in the plane with a camera on his head. This scenario has been played out hundreds of times before, and the outcome is often bad. As a DZO, I would be really annoyed if an incident occurred, and someone who had prior concerns had kept silent. Never be afraid to speak up. I think I speak for every DZO in that regard. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

So.....have divorce proceedings been initiated yet? My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Repeatedly having to pick up the smashed and broken bodies of the latest "mad skilz" hotshots does tend to drive one into hardliners territory. I plead guilty.... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Why am I not surprised? To OP. If you do make this app, make it smart and it's probably easier to get people to like it. For example, tracking people all the time will drain people's batteries and feel quite awkward. So my advice is set up a perimeter around the DZ. If you are outside this line below 1000 ft then it should show up on manifest computer. Also make the manifest app alarm when it happens. And then to make sure you don't get false alarms (because too many of them, then nobody will care) do not track if the phone has been on ground more than 10 minutes or so. That way people can leave the DZ for lunch without closing the app and not creating an alarm. An automatic on function of the app would also be good but that is probably harder to get working. I take it this is a dig at dinosaur thinking...... I'm not opposed to the idea. I'm just pointing out that any data/records need to be protected, so it couldn't be accessed by a third party who might use it in a way which was not anticipated when the idea became a reality. Statistics/data showing off landings would be gold to those who don't have our interests at heart, for example, when lawyers get involved in legal action against a DZ. Like it or not, there are third parties out there who would willingly use such information against a DZ.....I've been around long enough to have seen attempts to discredit or even ban skydiving, usually by governing authorities like CAA/FAA. I've fought many battles with officials over the years who have tried to limit our activities. These days, in NZ, there are a lot of places we used to use as alternate landing areas/designated DZs with no problem, which are now off limits....CAA have successfully managed to isolate/limit skydiving to a few areas, and have removed DZ status from many airfields. It wouldn't be the first time someone has come up with a bright idea without fully anticipating all the potential consequences. It doesn't hurt to point these out before putting something into use.....then protection can be built in. That is all. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Need to be careful with that. In NZ, an off landing now has to be recorded and an incident report filed (yes its ridiculous), so data could be used by CAA/FAA/CQS or any anti skydiving movement as a stick to beat skydiving with. Dead skydivers being left to rot is pretty rare. Good spotting and a good check in system works OK. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

I only bet when winning is certain...... But, if you are certain, you'd pledge the 20 to Kimmy. After all, where's the risk if you're never gonna have to pay her out? My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

So......if the SC does take the case, are you going to give the 20 to CQS? My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

That twin beech in Skies Call, with all the jumpers outside must have been close to a record. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

1967? Too early for a Dactyl. Looks like a PC. Hard to tell from that photo. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

To this day, I still believe a tandem fatality back in 1997 was caused by a hard opening. Tandem terminal, ZP canopy. TM and rider were both limp and unresponsive under canopy, and they landed under a partially open main, not hard enough to fracture lower limbs. The canopy suffered no damage. Unfortunately they never autopsied the rider, and I never saw the autopsy report for the TM, but I would have been interested to see if they both had a common neck injury. Consensus opinion from the investigation was they died on landing, but I've always had doubts about that. At the time I remember thinking that ZP canopies in a tandem terminal situation were a ticking time bomb. (ZP tandem canopies were relatively new back then) If a canopy blows up on opening, then the opening shock on the humans on the other end is much less. There is a point where design should include structural failure if opening shocks are beyond the limit. At least the jumper would be alive/awake to deal with the subsequent malfunction. Death due to hard openings is about as stupid as death from landing fully open canopies. Neither should happen. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Yeah, same Jyro....they only made one of him. NZ 4 way RW team, founder of NZ Aerosports, maker of all things Icarus. Known and loved around the world. Passed away in LA last Saturday..... Real name Paul Martyn, but has always been known as Jyro. When asked why he was called Jyro, the reply epitomised his attitude. Jump Yer Ring Out........Jyro. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Russian roulette with 5 loaded chambers. Better off just pulling silver. Low cutaways kill far more than collapsed canopies. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

The skydiving world today lost one of its special talents. A great skydiver, innovator and thinker. One of lifes special people. I've known him since he was a student skydiver, but his talent and skill left us far behind, long ago. Anyone jumping an Icarus canopy.....spare him a thought today. And thank him. RIP Jyro. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

How come then, that Arnhem vets around the world who wanted to do this solo, in every case, were shunned? Including the UK. Their previous experience counted for nothing. The British Parachute community ran for the hills when approached about this. The vets who did do a jump on the day, in other countries without exception, did tandems. The only choice they got. Even my mob were turned down by two other organisations in NZ, one being the military. These guys are connected around the world, and they talk, and I know there was massive disappointment (not to mention a sense of rejection) that they were not able to jump solo in other countries. Thats what they all wanted, and tried to organise. My lot were, of course, stoked. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Back in the days of dangle and thump, there was good reason to worry about the age of students. These days, good gear significantly mitigates the risks to older students. In 1994 I trained a group of 21 ex Paras celebrating the 50th anniversary of operation Market Garden. They all did a SL jump, The youngest was 71, the oldest 82. They did fine. No drama, no injuries, and one of the easiest groups I ever trained. They loved the exit altitude, square canopies and stand up landings, but declined our kind offer of having a few guys on the ground shooting at them under canopy...!! We had them sign a medical waiver (all students did that), because a doctors certificate really doesn't have any bearing on ones fitness to jump. I found out later that several of them had lied on their waivers when answering "no" to the list in the medical questionnaire......such is the nature of ex paras....but none were affected by this. I'm a firm believer in giving people the right and responsibility to make their own decisions, surely they are old enough to do so. These guys, (in my eyes) had earned the right to make this jump 50 years previously. Who am I to make a decision about suitability to jump, based on someones age? Arrogance in the extreme. It is one thing to do the training, but ultimately it was my decision to clear them to jump. They were left in no doubt that if they didn't match up in training, they would not be allowed to go solo. Of them all, there was one I wasn't sure about, but the easy solution was to strap him on the front of a tandem. For these guys, doing this jump was really important, for most it was something to savour in the twilight of their lives. There was no way I was going to deny them the chance to do this jump if I could possibly make it happen. I felt extremely humble in their presence, and it was a privilege to do so. Banning people based on age is a crock. It says more about the so called instructor if he has to resort to this to avoid a challenge. May as well hand in your rating....... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Just plead guilty and get it over with, then throw yourself, sobbing, on the mercy of the court!! This advice comes gratis..... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Quite remarkable how stupid some people can be. Saw an anecdote that made me chuckle. Thought it might be worth sharing. How about posting your stories of "stupid" then? My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

That's what happens when you don't fight your case strongly and allow yourself to be walked over. If you are having dramas, it is often because you are not doing things properly yourself, or you are acting as a doormat. Kowtowing is not a good policy. I would contend that the people making these decisions have no clue about skydiving, and are basing their views on quite irrational fears. And they always want more. I've seen plenty of cases where people allow themselves to be intimidated by "authority", and then got shat on. I've also been involved in a lot of similar scenarios and been able to demolish the opposition by having a sound and reasoned argument to back up my views. Most of the opposition is based on ignorance, or the views of a shrill few (take the Quiet Skies loons for example) who really have very shallow arguments. I battled CAA idiots for many years and invariably won my arguments when they wanted to impose restrictions on us. They were never as "expert" as they made themselves out to be. I, (and many others) have been fighting such ignorance all my skydiving life, and what we got didn't ever come easy. If you don't fight your corner you will lose. Never give an inch, because if you let them get one unreasonable decision against you, its the thin edge of the wedge and you are on the slippery slope. Their "threats" are usually hollow. It really saddens me to see things we battled hard for over many years, given away so easily, by a bunch of wimps who kowtow to these naysayers. Unfortunately, the horse has already bolted in many cases. Harden up princesses!. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

2/4000. In NZ the most dangerous sport is......fishing. The reaper is gonna get us all sooner or later, and when he calls it doesn't matter what the hell you are doing at the time. Lots of people die in hospitals....I try to avoid them. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

I would say A. I don't think the danger level has increased at all. Being killed under perfectly good canopies never really happened back in the day, and gear is much better today. People are always going to get injured/killed no matter what we do. That is the nature of the sport. I think poor decision making is a big part of that, and that comes from a lack of knowledge/experience. People in positions of authority today seem much more reluctant to make difficult decisions/take responsibility for others, hence the "can't do" attitude I see more of these days. As I said it may be the commercial side of it trying to maintain a "good" record, it may be the fear of litigation, but whatever it is, I don't think it is necessarily healthy. You've got to be prepared to trust people and let them off the leash after training them properly. Remember, the noobs of today are tomorrows instructors, tasked with taking the sport forward. Wrapping them in cotton wool doesn't really prepare them properly for that role.Quote My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

It amuses me how over the years, so many things which were once quite normal, are now considered really dangerous. I can remember doing beach jumps with 50 jumps in total, on roundies...no problem. Beaches are quite big, with soft sand. Back then we were allowed to do things like night jumps, demos, cross country jumps with very little experience, this was done to build that experience. We had proper briefings and safety equipment, and knew our limitations and as far as I can remember, no one got injured or killed doing these things. We learned how to look after ourselves. And became better, safer skydivers for it. I think a better approach, instead of imposing restrictions, outlining what we can't do, is to allow people to try things and show them how to do it safely. The problem comes of course from the commercial skydiving centres, who are very protective of their safety record and have allowed the authorities to over regulate things to the point where they suffer sanctions if a mistake is made. Most small operators no longer exist. It does suck. Welcome to the PC world where we must be wrapped in cotton wool for our own good! My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Ah, I thought you said one and a half shots..... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....