obelixtim

Latest is that 2 of the boys have made it to chamber 3, where they can walk out. Great news if that is correct and very encouraging, but there is a long way to go yet in this mission. They were bringing out 4 first of all, then 3 groups of 3. Hopefully the 2nd pair of the first group are OK. ETA: So they have got 4 out successfully, and the operation is suspended for 10 hours or so. I guess the most experienced divers doing the most difficult part need some rest. Apparently its raining heavily. Great effort so far. Hopefully they can get the rest out safely. Success will give them a big boost. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Good luck to them. That's a difficult dive for the best of cave divers. Really hoping everyone involved makes it out OK. Need all the good luck possible and more. Further to the point about "blame": My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

The culture of the Thai people, based on Buddhism, is very different to western ideas about blame, life and death etc. So they will accept whatever happens, with the attitude that it was meant to be. Not to say they won't be sad and upset if their loved ones are lost. But they will not apportion blame. We'll see, but I think you may be leaning on the culture thing a bit hard. With good reason. I've spent quite a lot of time in Thailand, and they do have a totally different mindset to Westerners when it comes to such things. You can see it in the responses the kids themselves have given. Nobody is blaming the coach. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

The culture of the Thai people, based on Buddhism, is very different to western ideas about blame, life and death etc. So they will accept whatever happens, with the attitude that it was meant to be. Not to say they won't be sad and upset if their loved ones are lost. But they will not apportion blame. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Heres hoping you are right.... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

The air pressure hoses will not be a problem, as you say. But if they start running things like phone lines, fresh water lines, perhaps a line to take away waste products, then things might get a tad congested in that narrow gap. With that many people in such a small area, over a longer period of time, hygiene then becomes a big problem. In their weakened state, illness can run rampant and kill them just as effectively as the immediate threats they face. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

If they do come up with a system for getting them out one at a time I wonder if they'll even bother bringing out the coach. He'll have a short life in there, but maybe a longer one than if the parents get their hands on him. The parents aren't blaming him. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Kind of like a diving bell. They will soon figure that out with compressed air and a pressure gauge. (like an alti). Could be their only hope. With regard to hoses going into the chamber, that 70 cm hole will be reduced in size by them, meaning it might be difficult for anyone to get in or out. The extra people in there with them will also be eating into their oxygen supply. A lot of problems to overcome. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

A couple of quotes I found that address some points. Its about to start raining, their cavern may quickly fill with water. There are no known "lower caves" they can drill into, even if they could get a drill in there to their location. Remember the narrowest point on the way in is just 70 cm wide, under water, a diver can't get through there without taking his tanks off. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Best I can think of is to drill a shaft down from the ground, if they can figure out the location of the trapped kids, and not come down right on top of them. I think they are 800 - 1000 metres below the surface. The Chilean miners were trapped for 60 odd days before they were able to drill a shaft down to them. The technical problems and time constraints make that an impossibility. They have very few options. I think this will end very badly. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

When you change a tyre, its easy to put a dollop of grease on the threads. Then you won't be fighting to get the lug nuts off. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

WTF is that supposed to mean? Do you think that this is some sort of joke? My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

They are more than 4 kms inside the cave. It took 6 hours to reach them. One section is 750 metres of flooded tunnel where you can only get through some parts by crawling on your belly. This bit took the experienced divers 3 hours to negotiate. 99% of experienced divers would not be able to manage this. These kids are weak and stressed. They can't even swim and are afraid of the water. Trying to get them out with scuba gear will kill them. With monsoon rain on the way till October, their outlook is grim, to say the least. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Kudos to those cave divers. You'd have to have balls of steel to do that. Made of special stuff those guys. Makes skydiving, and the dangers associated with it, look like a Sunday school picnic. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Gives you something to chew on when you are stuck up a tree waiting for rescue. Could be dangerous if you choke on one. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Best you hand in your man card.... Some things are worth it. Ah....Miss Whiplash. Now I understand. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Best you hand in your man card.... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Not Marty Feldman. Monty Python sketch. Four Yorkshiremen. You'll find it on You Tube. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

I'd forgotten about frap wraps, but the R2s and R3s were the bees knees. Couldn't think of a better system than that, then Booth came up with the 3 ring circus and that just killed the others stone dead. And time has proven the genius of his design. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Just be aware, that on the road, everyone is your enemy. Be very visible, and trust no other vehicle or driver. They all want to kill you. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

We seem to be going round in circles here. A licence is a Certificate of Proficiency and can not be revoked. The Articles of Association state, but as I very much doubt he is a current member Council would be unable to do anything until he reapplied for membership (at which time he would have served his time, albeit remaining on licence for the rest of his life). There have been bans in the past, in relation to fixed-object jumping fatalities but they turned out not to be lifetime (I'm confused as to whether that was the intention or not), but there were threats of lifetime bans if BPA Members were found to be BASE jumping afterwards. The BPA Operations Manual later changed to state that Fixed Object jumping did not come within the provisions of the Operations Manual in order to distance itself. So here's an interesting question; has it actually been prejudicial to the Association? Would people think less of the sport and the association because of the actions of a criminal? Or do they think it is the act of a psychopath who could have used a number of methods to carry out his crime? If he'd tampered with the brakes of the car would it be prejudicial to the manufacturer of the car? I suspect it is all moot as I too doubt he would ever visit a dropzone ever again. I think it would reinforce the perception amongst the great unwashed that skydiving is an incredibly dangerous activity, and so it could be argued to have damaged the sport. Although it would be unlikely to change the minds of those so prejudiced anyway. But it is bad PR, especially for those making a living from skydiving. I've spent a lot of time over the years educating the public about skydiving, so anything that reinforces an opposite view is a negative, in my mind anyway. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

He's damaged the image of skydiving and brought the sport into disrepute because of his actions. For those reasons alone, I would think the BPA could pass a motion to ban him for life, at an AGM. I would hope someone brings such a motion to an AGM, regardless. I don't think anyone would regard that as unconstitutional or unfair. I doubt he would have the balls to show his face on a DZ ever again anyway. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

His licence would be invalid after 18 years anyway. And he won't be forgotten. But it would be an appropriate gesture from the BPA anyway, to demonstrate skydivers revulsion and contempt for his actions, and to show the public how we view him. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

No. One second can be the difference between life and death. There is a reason EPs are taught the way they are. Stick to that, it gives you your best chance of survival. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

The first Ramair jump I did was on an early Strato Star, which had the pilot chute reefing system in place, but that system didn't have a slider. Instead you had a bridle cord that consisted of 20 odd feet of rope that went down through the canopy and through rings around the bottom of the canopy. It worked fine, but was made redundant when the slider came out. I remember hearing about the Volplane, which apparently had some sort of hydraulic system which you could apparently set for terminal/sub terminal jumps, but I know nothing about how it worked. I saw one jumped once, as I recall. It was owned by an old guy who was a physics professor, so maybe the hydraulic system was his own invention. I can't imagine how it would work. People were messing around with the early squares at that stage. Apparently the Volplane had the performance of a cheapo. Maybe an older fart than me can elaborate on that. ETA: Just found something about them on this very site...so the reefing system came out with the canopy. Maybe we could begin by looking back to help sort out the future. The Delta 2 OSI system is another. Modern versions could be a starting point. http://www.dropzone.com/forum/Skydiving_C1/Skydiving_History_%26_Trivia_F21/Volplane_Hydraulic_Reefing_Device_P4582058/ My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....