obelixtim

I'm not a member of USPA, the BPA or the NZPF any longer. Does that disqualify me from sharing an opinion about any of them, good or bad? No way. If it has anything to do with skydiving, wherever it occurs.... I'll call things as I see them. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Joe. No I can't give you examples, but if it did happen, we might never know. I was responding to Normiss in the incidents thread about the recent Lodi fatality who posted this: I can see a know nothing cop (or skydiver) discarding something he regards as rubbish, or picking up a rig by a handle popping a reserve or main, without realising it might be significant. So I can see how it could easily happen. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

In terms of growing skydiving, I would say the advent of AFF has actually led to a reduction in numbers doing their first jump solo. Offset a little I guess, by the numbers experiencing skydiving via tandem. The advent of wind tunnels may have a positive effect on student numbers as well. When bungy jumping first started in NZ, there was concern that it would take away the numbers from skydiving, but in fact the opposite proved true. We saw an increase in student numbers after that developed. I'd say if AFF was the only way to experience skydiving, the sport would be on its last legs by now. Simply down to cost and complexity. As an example, my largest ever class of first jump students (SL) was a group of 70. Splitting that into smaller groups, it took 4 evenings during the week to train them, with one jumpmaster helping me, and with a perfect weekend of weather, we got all out the door, a few even doing a second jump. It would take a long time for two people to do that via AFF. And I trained many groups of 20, 30, 40 over the years, and in total I trained and jumped over 10,000 first jump students. Now sure, many of them didn't go beyond their first jump, but quite a few did, who became Instructors, TIs, and riggers. I know of at least five who became DZOs. Those kind of numbers would be impossible if AFF was the only option. At one point 25% of A licences issued in NZ were from my operation. Sure there are bigger and better aircraft these days, but in many cases this has not been a benefit to sport jumping. I know a few Tandem operations where you need a C licence at least, to do solo jumps. Sport jumping is actively discouraged. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

That's not exactly what I was saying. I was responding specifically to a comment how local law enforcement have on occasions prevented proper analysis and investigations taking place. That is not right. FAA, like CAA, know jack about parachuting. What I was suggesting, was that USPA ask FAA to give authority to suitably qualified parachutists/skydivers to conduct proper investigations of fatal accidents. Effectively giving them the same authority as FAA aircraft accident inspectors. These would be people who hold senior ratings and who have extensive experience in Instructing, Rigging, Tandems etc etc. Their job would be to conduct investigations and produce in depth reports relating to skydiving fatalities. Its exactly what happens in several other countries, so the system has already been tested and proven. This would put the local law enforcement in their rightful place, as supervisors of investigations, but off to one side, except, of course, in the case of foul play, a la the recent Cilliers case in the UK. (Imagine if, in that case, the police had prevented a proper investigation. Cilliers would have got away with his crime. Do we know for sure that hasn't happened already in the US?) FAA need not be involved at all, apart from perhaps receiving a copy of the final report. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

This is true, but it's not practically preventable by you as an average jumper. One of the risks I accept (along with several of the preventable ones I mentioned, honestly) when I go for a jump is that I have no idea how to maintain a plane. I think we're having a great time arguing semantics and we probably don't really disagree... my original problem is with people (deliberately or otherwise) blurring the line between luck and care in skydiving. You can ask the pilot when the next 100 hour inspection is due. If the aircraft is being maintained properly, he should be able to give you an answer within a few seconds. You can ask to see the maintenance logs. If the DZ refuses, it's because they have something to hide. Anyone on the aircraft has a right to see that log. Those two things would go a long ways toward implying the DZ does or does not do their due diligence. My aircraft logs are kept in safe, secure storage. They are important documents. I might produce them if it were convenient, but most likely I wouldn't repeatedly go and drag them out if every Tom, Dick and Tarzan demanded to see them. And not because there is something to hide. I have better things to be doing with my time. There is nothing much to see anyway, apart from technical details of maintenance, stamps and signatures from my LAME. And if the aircraft was not compliant, I would not be risking my backside getting into it, let alone anybody elses. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Another flux capacitator burnt out? My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

I see Victoria did a tandem recently to raise money for the ambulance service. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

I think you mean ball up (tucking in to make yourself small) rather than bowl up. As a means of regaining stability, it is a waste of time and effort. Not effective. Especially after a cutaway. As you said, pull silver. Altitude is precious, not only to get your reserve out safely, but to give you time to find a safe landing area. Again its pointless having a good reserve, only to land in the crocodile pool. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

A delta is better, but I wouldn't think adopting a fast fall position after a cutaway is such a good idea, especially if your altitude awareness has gone out the window. Altitude is precious. After a cutaway you need to stop the freefall. Its no good being stable on impact. ETA: And if your reserve is small enough to give you problems after opening, whatever the situation, it might be worth reconsidering your choice of gear. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

This poll shows otherwise. The "poll" is asking skydivers, not whuffos. And? Skydivers don't normally look at the USPA website to find a place to learn to skydive. Also, it is not limited to "new" people in the sport. I guy that has been jumping 45 years 'knows' more than a guy that has yet to get a license. But I think you knew that. Again, strawman from you. Is this the best you are going to do? If so, don't expect me to continue to play your game. Lol, Ron I didn't even make an argument, and I'm not misrepresenting your stance. There could be no strawman. I asked you a follow up question and I have another question. Where does the illusion of safety come from? I mean you moved the goalposts from "guaranteeing that a DZ is safe" to "giving the illusion that its safe" so I am just trying to clarify your stance. Its really not that difficult to anyone with half a functioning brain. Anyone who knows nothing about skydiving, researching options, would naturally assume that an operation belonging to a national organisation, would by so doing, be compliant with any rules or protocols that organisation promulgates. Especially when it has US as part of its title. Most national organisations have some sort of code of conduct. Any operation not a member of USPA, would prolly be regarded as a cowboy outfit. Why would you not be a member unless you didn't want to follow the rules? That would be the perception of most people. Most skydivers would know differently. Hence the poll results. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

He never said anything of the sort. You probably missed all the deleted comments from the original incident thread. He said that multiple times. Yeah, I did miss quite a few. Its annoying when threads are wrecked like that. Generally I give up on those discussions when that happens, because there is no point in them when context is destroyed like that. Its no longer a discussion. Defeats the purpose really. Apparently Ron really, really, really hates the USPA. I doubt that very much. USPA is too toothless to engender that sort of emotion. Disappointed might be more accurate, and in that, I'm sure he's not alone. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

He never said anything of the sort. You probably missed all the deleted comments from the original incident thread. He said that multiple times. Yeah, I did miss quite a few. Its annoying when threads are wrecked like that. Generally I give up on those discussions when that happens, because there is no point in them when context is destroyed like that. Its no longer a discussion. Defeats the purpose really. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

I wonder: I doubt that USPA sanctioned has much of any meaning to whuffos signing up for Tandems or even a first jump course. I have to admit that, when I did my tandems decades ago, I had no idea what USPA was. Looking back, and knowing more about the complexity of tandem systems, I wonder what made me trust that this was all ok. But even a few years ago, when I signed up for the first jump course I knew nothing about USPA and member dropzones. I found that out as I progressed towards my A License and I'm pretty sure (and have anecdotal evidence) that this is so for most jumpers. If being a member dropzone was such a selling-point for whuffos it would be big on all the tandem ads. It isn't. If there is a safety advantage, I believe it's more for us regular jumpers, and in regards to whuffos, it's an advantage to us if there are less accidents--because it helps the public perception of the sport. So if you polled the whuffos my guess is the most common answer would be: "what the heck is a USPA sanctioned DZ?" I would expect the pollster would explain who/what USPA stands for in their questionnaire. Something like: "Would you prefer, if given a choice, to jump at a dropzone sanctioned by the US Parachute Association, or at one that is not so sanctioned/ independent from USPA?" Simple Yes or No answer required. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

He never said anything of the sort. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

How could you be so naïve? Mods have their own set of rules. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

I'm saying his points aren't valid period. I don't even know who he was when I criticized his first point and still don't know who he is. Frankly, I don't care who he is because it's irrelevant. Never in my short skydiving career have I ever assumed that the USPA promised that the member DZ were guaranteed safe. That's an outrageous claim. All the group member agreement says is what they should do. No one can guarantee safety when it comes to skydiving. However, a DZ that is "endorsed" by USPA has an implied (to the unwashed public anyway) code of practice/set of standards that creates an impression (whether that is true or not) that a USPA DZ operates to a higher standard than others that are not USPA members. I wager if you polled 100 whuffos whether they would prefer to jump at a USPA sanctioned DZ or a non USPA DZ, if costs were equal, a large percentage would opt for the USPA option. The reality, of course, is USPA is so hands off, such perceptions are virtually worthless. I think Ron, not unreasonably, expects better. In this particular case, There isn't very much USPA could do or say anyway. Its impossible to legislate for someones state of mind. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Not replying to you in particular, but: Post numbers, or whether a person has quit the sport and given up ratings does not mean he is not entitled to an opinion. Disagreeing with a pov is OK, but I am seeing Ron being told his opinion doesn't count any more, or his points are no longer valid. Which to me, seems to be a personal attack on his credibility, and the validity of his points. Which, as we are often reminded, is a no no. But which seems to be OK in selected cases. DZ.com needs to make a rule that you have to be a current jumper to contribute, otherwise go elsewhere. Because that's what DZ.com is coming to. Its no wonder that many experienced jumpers with useful opinions to the skydiving community have quit this site. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

BV is going to have field day with his axe on this thread... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

+1. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Like chucking a student out on an unmodified roundie, or calculating the exit point for a high altitude cross country jump, its all about the wind. Not really that difficult with experience and raw animal cunning. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

That guy is in trouble if the vegan rights brigade get hold of him.... I don't feel like watching the entire video but I highly doubt he dropped any sort of animal from 45 feet. Cruelty to innocent, thinking, feeling watermelons. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

That guy is in trouble if the vegan rights brigade get hold of him.... My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

About as well as a melon What sort of melon? My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

Just getting out of the basket itself would be a hassle for a tandem. For a one off, maybe, but commercial? Nah. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....

I know it goes against the grain, but if USPA, and its members become aware of serious deficiencies/violations, should they not become whistle blowers to FAA? Perhaps after a warning to the particular operation to clean up its act first. Ultimately people are responsible for their own safety, and of course, can choose to walk away from a particular place, but that leaves the problem in place, and risks the lives of others. If there is an incident that then costs the lives of others, people need to examine their own conscience as to whether they should have spoken up when they knew there was a problem. They need to accept some of the responsibility in such a case, IMO. My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing....