Shotgun

I jump at a dropzone that I think has a higher ratio of females than most dz's - I'm guessing something like 20-25% female. I've been at this dz for two years now, one year of that working at the dz. During this time I have seen quite a few accidents (it's a big dz) and I can honestly only think of one of them where it was a female that got injured. I've lost count of how many men I've seen get hurt, but I could safely say at least 20 in the time that I've been here. That makes for a very low female injury ratio at my dz - but again I think these numbers are just too small to mean anything. Anyhow, I've managed to turn Tom's thread into an argument about statistics and I really didn't intend to do that. I have thought about this and realized that no matter what the statistics are, if there is anyone out there who needs this advice (and obviously there are) then it is certainly worth saying.

You mean all men aren't evil and lecherous? (kidding) Yes, I had individual reasons... and I wouldn't even say that I "distrusted" them so much as that the situation was slightly questionable - the guys I mentioned are still my friends, I just didn't feel comfortable with the "student/mentor" relationship with these particular people. Anyhow, I didn't mean to start a thread about male/female stuff (maybe I should not have mentioned that!) - just wanted some advice about rigger courses... or to start a discussion about the usefulness of rigger training for BASE jumping.

Thanks for the reply... This is what I originally wanted to do, but unfortunately being a woman has turned out to be a problem here too (referring to the thread on "Boyfriends and BASE")... I've had several offers from riggers that I can mentor under, but they're all men so the motivation is questionable - at first this put me off rigging altogether, but now I'm thinking a course might be a better option for me (though I realize I will need to continue learning after the course). There is one female Master Rigger out here who I would love to have for a "mentor", but for some reason she would rather spend her time BASE jumping than teaching people how to rig - go figure! I'm really thinking Sandy Reid's course (USAPR) is the way to go, but I haven't talked to anyone who has actually taken this course (and it's pretty expensive so it's a big decision for me). So if anyone has taken this course or knows anything about it, I would certainly appreciate your opinion (feel free to email or PM me). Thanks! :-)

The reason I'm asking this in the BASE Zone is because I'm interested in taking a Senior Rigger's course to help me with my BASE packing. I know this may sound a bit excessive, but... Has anyone else done this? Or does anyone have a suggestion for a course that might be better than the others (i.e. the instructor is a BASE jumper). Right now I'm looking at Sandy Reid's course just because it appears to be the most thorough - but I'm curious to hear other opinions... (I've taken a First Jump Course, but the only time that was spent on packing was packing before each jump, so I didn't feel like I really learned how to pack - I thought at least a full day of packing class before doing any jumps would have been better, but that's just me...) Thanks for any info!

What exactly does "SudsyFist" mean, Steve?

If you haven't found one yet, you can get the USPA 2003 calendar at Square One: https://www.square1.com/catalog

Hi Tom, I decided to pull these numbers only from people who I know reasonably well... If I included people who I just barely know, I would include 1 more male BASE injury and 2 more male BASE fatalities... If I start including people I don't know but just heard about - well again I don't have time for that, but I think it would be a similar average. Anyhow, I think these numbers are basically useless because it's just such a small portion. With numbers this small, all it takes is one female injury to change the statistics enormously, and I just don't think that's an accurate representation. In the 3-4 years that I have been interested in BASE, she is actually the only female that I know who has been injured. (And if you asked me this a month ago, I wouldn't have known any females who had been injured.) As for the percentage of male and female BASE jumpers I know, a *very* rough guess would be about 15-20% female (and I think I live where there is an unusually high number of female BASE jumpers)... It would be nice if there were some way to actually get some good statistics about this... if there was one person (or organization) who people could report injuries to and this info could be analyzed over a few years - I think that's the only way we'll ever see any accurate "trends"... Ok, I better shut up now and get ready for work

Hey Tom, The point I was trying to make is that you can't really say what the injury rate is without keeping detailed records of a large number of jumpers over a long period of time, which I have not been doing (and I don't know of any studies like this that exist, but please correct me if I'm wrong...) If I were to start throwing numbers off the top of my head (based only on people who I know)... just from the past year, I have one female friend who has been injured (on a BASE jump), 3 male friends who were injured (all skydiving - only 1 related to swooping), and I have lost 2 male friends (1 a skydiving fatality - swooping, 1 BASE). There are far more incidents that I "know of" but it would take me all night to figure that out... When I saw the thread "Boyfriends and BASE" I thought it might be about the emotional impact of relationships and BASE - as this definitely adds a whole new danger to the situation... But to say that women in general are getting injured at a much higher rate than men - I'm just wondering where these numbers are coming from??? Either way, as several people have pointed out, there is no harm in discussing it - so I apologize for responding negatively...

Wow, he's even got his own website now! http://www.mrbill.com/

Yep, that was it... I'm pretty sure he even went skydiving once - but his chute didn't open of course! OH NOOOO

I've tried this twice - and got kicked in the face pretty hard on the 2nd attempt (and it still didn't work!), so that kinda scared me away from it... But it does sound like fun, and I might try it again if I thought I could do it right! And Mr. Bill was one of my favorite SNL characters as a kid!

Nice fixator, dude!

Hmmm... now that you mention it, I seem to have snuck a few gifts in for myself as well. Oops!

There are no statistics that say women get injured more in skydiving or BASE. To have these kind of statistics, first of all we would need a complete list of ALL jumpers including gender, and then every dropzone and every BASE jumper would need to keep records of how many jumps are made and how many injuries result from these jumps and then all of this information would need to be kept in one place and analyzed. (But most dropzones don't even keep records of injuries, much less report them to anyone else... And BASE of course is even LESS organized than that.) If I took statistics from what I have seen myself, I would have to say that women have a lower injury rate than men in either sport (especially skydiving, where swooping is the biggest injury factor nowadays, and there are still very few women who try swooping) - but again these statistics would be inaccurate because it is only based on a very small portion of jumpers. Yes, there is no harm in discussing women getting injured in the sport (or people who may "help" them get injured), but please don't use statistics that simply don't exist!

Not skydiving related, but an interesting article about How Astronauts Get Along Well, I guess it could relate to skydiving since it's about dealing with high-stress situations...

Thanks, Tom... This is good reading :-)

Ah ha! Now I'm on to your tricks, Yuri! And you better watch out 'cause I AM big enough to kick your ass!

Thanks, Tom - I wasn't really THAT offended. I was just pointing out that this SHOULD be common sense to any woman. And unfortunately, any woman who might actually need this advice is probably not reading this forum because she is probably the kind of woman who does not think for herself and therefore does not seek out information for herself. But, as Samantha pointed out, there is no harm in discussing it... And if just one person reads this who might benefit from it then it could save someone's life. (But I do think it should be a topic on "Unqualified BASE Instructors" rather than "Boyfriends and BASE") I just happen to know a LOT more men who are interested in BASE for the "wrong" reasons (in my opinion) and who are willing to learn from someone who is inadequate to teach them... and most of the women I know who are interested in BASE tend to be more cautious than men and therefore more likely to seek "proper instruction" (and well aware that most potential male "instructors" will be "thinking with their penises")... so I was just wondering why this post was directed at women - that's all... I know... you just can't please everyone, can you? Sorry for being difficult...

Isn't this just common sense???? I think most women who would get themselves in this situation must know what they are doing and what the consequences are - and therefore it is no one else's business. If they want to use their "feminine charms" to learn BASE then that is their decision, and if they want to jump only because their boyfriend does then that is also their decision. BASE can kill you no matter what your reasons for doing it are, and who is to say which reasons are right or wrong? And as a woman, yes I have had many unqualified (and some qualified) dudes offer to teach me to BASE jump - and I was definitely put off by how eager they were to help me kill myself. But I should point out that I have seen these same dudes offer to teach other dudes how to BASE jump as well. This type of person I think just needs to feed his ego and impress SOMEONE, male or female. (And unfortunately, both skydiving and BASE seem to attract a lot of these people.) The few qualified BASE jumper friends I have were very reluctant to teach me, which made me have even more respect for them. In the end, I decided to learn from Anne Helliwell - not because she's a woman, but because I felt she was the most qualified person to learn from in my area (highly experienced in not only BASE jumping but also in TEACHING BASE jumping). Anyhow, I'm sure Tom's post was well-intended, but I felt it was a bit condescending towards women. We are all adults and we all make our own decisions. The fact that there are people out there who want to teach others to BASE jump just to feed their own ego is scary, but this applies to men and women alike. Just my 2 cents...

I read this when I had about 400 jumps. I thought it was very well-written and informative. I already knew a lot of the information from experience and other reading, but I learned a few things. And this is the kind of sport where every tiny thing you learn may one day save your life... So I think it's best to get as much information from as many different sources as possible. And I think this would be a perfect book for someone right off student status. The "Skydiver's Handbook" by Dan Poynter is pretty good too. Some of it seems a bit dated, but it's got some really good info as well...

Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who gave me advice on the Lasik! I now have an appointment to have it done on January 15 with Dr. Tooma :-) Oh, and it still costs about as much as a new rig :-( But I'm kinda scared of those cheaper places... Oh well, handing over that much cash won't seem so bad once I'm able to see! Thanks everyone! :-)

The man should ALWAYS pay for the jumps! Even if he's not a skydiver!

I saw Luigi landing the VX46 out at Perris. I was pretty sure he was gonna die, but of course he pulled off a beautiful landing :-)

Can anyone recommend a good laser vision center near Perris or the LA/San Diego area? Thanks! Keely

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