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I was curious as to how you came up with your findings. At what sizes and aspect ratios does this happen? On which canopy models did you do these experiments?

Mark, I have seen a number of posts now that indicate that you consider the "domed" slider to be superior to the normal (large) sail slider. Is this a correct assumption on my part? What canopies have you or others done (test) jumps on with both types of sliders to compare the difference? I have done considerable work in the "large slider to slow down the opening" area, but am always interested in the research of others.

The Dacron lines on my Stiletto make my openings softer each and every time. Do you have some examples, i.e., some canopy models where a large slider caused trouble? I have a fair amount of experience in this area but am also interested in the research of others.

Yes! Fortunately the gear is so good that this overconfidence is not killing too many people. Something that I see more of now is that people in the back of small Cessnas are not even getting up on their knees on jumprun to check their handles and reach back to see if their flap has opened. They just go from sitting on their ass to exiting. A typical poor attitude. That is why tandem gear manufacturers have had to go (back) to cable style closing pins, to save people from their poor attitudes.

No, I used quite a lot of silicone sealer on it, so my teeth won't get near the body of the switch. The switch are fairly rugged as is.

Yes, plus how often do we tell novice skydivers to not reach? To "reach up" sounds even crazier to them. There are so many things that we try to drill into the heads of students, and then later contradict them, no wonder it is difficult to learn to skydive.

Have not used it long. I'm a casual skydive photographer. 10 jumps maybe. It works fine, but the place that the tip of my tongue wants to go when I push it toward my teeth is slightly below where the tip of the switch is. I think with some adjustments to the silicone sealer a person could make it feel more natural by making the switch offset a bit. Thanks for posting that picture of the bite switch. I was wondering how those were made.

They are designed for multiple sports and they are produced in larger quantities. With skydiving specific helmets you are paying to look cool (meaning, not like the students who are probably wearing ProTecs). Also, the quantities made are smaller which makes them more expensive. I am not cool. I wear a ProTec (Being cheap doesn't hurt.)

That was certainly not a criticism of you. I thought it was very helpful of you to have made those statements, because it is helping us get to the root of the problem, (which I don't think is lack of training or courses.)

jacketsdb23 wrote: "It was nice to take the course in a organized manner that it was, but I didn't learn anything new. I had learned it all in my Static Line course." labrys wrote: "In the classroom part of the first basic course I felt a little disappointed because I wasn't "learning" anything that hadn't already been taught to me during my initial training." Of course a little review doesn't hurt... labrys wrote: "When we got out of the classroom and started flying, I was amazed ... how much more focused I was when all I was doing was thinking about my canopy." I have had conversations with some of the well known canopy course instructors and asked them what the deal is, because what they are teaching is not overwhelmingly new or something the average skydiver has never heard. They have pretty much told me the same thing, that when someone pays big bucks for a course they pay attention, and when the focus of the entire day is on canopy flight and not combined with freefall, that significant learning takes place. Typical training in canopy flight is not necessarily lacking. Perhaps the time and attention devoted to it by the skydiver during an average day at the DZ is.

"Dual SOS". Interesting name. If you are referring to the system that has two handles and the reserve handle will also cutaway, then that makes 3 names I have heard used. I call that system the "universal", but someone came up with another name too. I tried searching and cannot find the thread. The only disadvantage to that system that I can think of is initial purchase price and the fact that the main risers are special. If you purchase student rigs with it already installed it would eliminate one of those. As far as training students and the operation of the system, I can't think of any disadvantages. It would of course be subject to the same maintenance issue as SOS, in that the cutaway cables had better be lubricated/clean, or pulling the reserve would be harder than if it had only one steel cable inside one cable housing.

I would be interested in which is which, in your opinion. And are you talking about the training method or ISP versus non-ISP? And which do you think is cheaper for the student.

I was pointed to a "how to" page of some article unrelated to skydiving, so while I was there I did a search for "pack a parachute". The results: http://www.ehow.com/how_2092516_pack-parachute.html Something tells me there is more to it than this!

It was always my understanding that the weight of the main was _not_ included, but I have no references, and have no idea where to find any. Maybe some manufacturer (with a knowledge of the history) could enlighten us.

You are not the only one. But if I posted this link every time I saw such a mistake I would be unpopular in a hurry. http://www.skydivestlouisarea.com/misused.htm

Those are some interesting things to consider, and thank you. I would be very interested in your impressions of General Aviation, for example, if you went to your local small airport and inquired about learning to fly.

Serious questions: What are some of the characteristics of a fully matured sport? What are some of the sports you consider fully matured?

Damn, TK and Tom are doing such a good job of explaining these things that I can't even think of anything to add, and I'm not often at a loss for words about tandem training! I hope any of you that have any doubts about training tandem students on their first jump are picking up on this stuff.

Please folks, watch for deer in the road. It's that time of year in many places. The deer get frisky and they are traveling all over the place including the roadways. I just got off the phone with a skydiver that hit a large buck Monday night, on his motorcycle no less. I think he's lucky to be alive. He swerved just enough that the deer hit his left side and broke his lower leg. And believe it or not, he didn't even go down. He rode to the side of the road and had to stand on his good leg in extreme pain until a motorist came along to help him get the kickstand down. So he is getting out of the hospital today with a rod in his leg and months of not being able to put weight on it. What a way to end the skydiving season. He had just been talking to another skydiver we know who rides a motorcycle to the DZ about needing to watch for deer. He was watching, but the deer jumped out in front of him so fast it didn't matter. And it came from the river side of the road which was much less expected.

Here you go. This is much more complete, and I found the part number and source for my favorite switch. Comments welcome. http://www.pcprg.com/tongueswitch.htm

Are you saying that at this particular dropzone (Orange) they are mere passengers? I see you live in Alexandria. Is this your home dropzone and you know this is the attitude or management? That would seem strange to me. After all this is the home of the USPA ISP.

I regularly find them wrong, and found out that some students are so excited about their jump that they unthread them instead of unsnapping the snap, and then packers that don't know the difference put them back on reversed. But like you I have never heard of enough slippage to be a problem.

The attached graphic file shows the tongue switch I made, with some part numbers from Mouser Electronics. www.mouser.com The covering is a "finger cot", from Walmart or drugstore. I might put a more compete writeup on the pcprg.com web site at some point with some other info.

I had a student that did most of their (AFF) training at another dropzone tell me that they wanted them to step into and out of the leg straps on their student rig that had B12 snaps on them rather than use the snaps. Has anyone ever heard of this, or know of any reason why a dropzone would want their students to do this?

But I do it regularly! When a tandem students acts like it is a carnival ride to them I show them all the cool stuff they can learn that real skydivers do. And all but a very, very few have really appreciated it. And even more important is that when their friends see the video and see all they things they did, they might come to the dropzone wanting to learn! It's all up to us. If we give up and treat them like carnival rides, that is what they will become, but if we treat it as a learning experience, they will too, and might just have a better chance of coming back for more instruction. Just imagine every tandem student coming to the dropzone begging their instructor "show me everything", and "let me do it all!" Maybe instructors would be so busy having so much fun instructing their students that they wouldn't even worry about what canopy they are using.