devildog

Aside from the fact that the Gospels don't read like myth in terms of how they are written (for example, any Jewish writer that wanted to invent a story and give it credibility, would never, ever, ever have women find Jesus first), you are contending that people knowingly made up a lie, for absolutely no gain, under penalty of torture and death. People just don't do that -- and they certainly don't do it with the consistency and numbers required to start and spread Christianity in the 1st century. I'm not saying people won't die for something not true, but in their minds, they believe it to be true. There's a difference. Your scenario would have people face the lions, the cross, the torches, beheadings, etc. all the while knowing, "I made this up," when all they would have to say is, "Maybe I'm wrong" to escape AND they have nothing to gain by lies. As we've so noted, early Christians had no power, no riches, didn't demand either from their followers (Paul actually writes that no one should ever say they are following him, or anyone else, etc.) You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

, Your statement is misleading at best, a "Few years old" Paul, who never met Jesus, first letter was at around 20 after the of death Jesus. Mark, the first gospel, was written 20 years after Paul and Matthew and Luke 15-20 after Mark and John almost 65 years after the death of Jesus. Still know one knows who wrote the gospels. We have letter fragments showing exactly what early Christians believed far before anything in the NT. Even if you want to stick to just the Gospels, and even if you want to go at best 50-60 AD, that only reinforces my point. 15-25 years later, Christians persecution was far bloodier than it was in the beginning. So again, when the Gospels were written (not just talk in the beginning, which, btw, was the same message and had the same consequences), do you think the authors of those gospels, facing all sorts of torture and horrendous deaths, poverty, loss of family and freedom, were really thinking, "Man, what a great power grab!" Of course not. And its ludicrous to think so. You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

So, question... When the first Christians were penning their letters to each other, going back and forth about an event just a few years old, and they had to meet in secret, were stoned, crucified, torn apart by lions, lit on fire as human torches, stabbed, beaten, etc. do you really think the entire time they were talking they were like, "Man, this is the best power grab ever!" You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

The Pope hardly represents every Christian out there, nor does the Pope speak for all theological interpretations throughout time. edit: And since we're talking Gen 1, the Pope really has no bearing on the Jewish view(s) of it either. You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

Taking hair triggers to their literal end. You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

This is where you are getting hung up. The entire church never, ever insisted as a whole on any such thing. You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

The way this term is going, I'm pretty sure those in the 102 camp will be deducted at least 10 points based on their 2008 pick alone :) You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

I mean that seems great and all, but it just sounds like you'd have to over-compromise and put up with all types of peoples' crap with an insicere shit eating grin on your face all the time... I'd much rather live in harmony and still call eachother out on our bullshit...like Jesus, like family

Dismiss my point all you want, the truth is, and has always been, the Hebrew never, ever, ever suggests a direct line from father -> son with its word choice. And what I said was that even with a careful reading in ENGLISH, you can see that's the case. I specifically said English because you don't have to be a Hebrew scholar to realize it. Just because you and others insist on reading into the text something that's not there, doesn't make your criticism valid. On the same note, tradition and historical views of Genesis 1 do not support an iron clad view of a 6 day creation, yet another myth people like to perpetuate. In fact, there are numerous throughout history that have seen Genesis 1 as not a creation story at all. So arguing whether or not it took 6 days, or if each day is a thousand years is an argument without any rhyme or reason as it completely misses the point of the text. So on, and so forth. You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

These guys do it all the time :) http://www.419eater.com/index.php You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

I hydroplaned last week on the interstate, ended up off road mostly scratch less, thankfully. During my spins, I did have the urge to cutaway and pull my reserve :) You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

Actually, it does. Next, I suppose, you will tell me that a day to God is a 1000 years! According to certain passages, yes. But as far as the Hebrew is concerned, yalad in this case, the word does not mean direct descendant, just "descendant". A careful reading of even the English translations shows this to be the case. You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

It does not give a specific age. It does provide a chronological timeline that puts the age of the planet at roughly 6500 years old. Using the timeline from the "first day", the day that Adam was "created" and the age when he died (about 930 years old ), along with the genealogy of those descending from him (as ages are given) the OT spans roughly 4000-4500 years. The supposing death of Christ happened 2011 years ago. This would place the age of the planet at roughly 6000-6500+ years. No, actually it doesn't work that way. Using the genealogy tree is a flawed method because the language used simply means descendant, not father->son. It could be 1 generation or 1000. The language doesn't differentiate whatsoever. You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

There's probably only 1 thing in life that's ever 100% certain, the famous, "I think, therefore I am." Everything else has varying degrees of uncertainty to it. Life is filled and lived daily with more uncertainty than most people realize. You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

I like the response of Ivan, to his brother Aloysha in the Dostoevsky's novel 'The Brothers Karamazov" in response that there maybe a reason in the end that will justify all the suffering that goes on in the world. " I'd rather remain with my unrequited suffering and my un-quenched indignation, even if I am wrong. Besides, they have put too high a price on harmony; we can't pay so much for admission. And therefore I hasten to return my ticket. And it is my duty, if only as an honest man, to return it as far a head of time as possible. Which is what I am doing. It's not that I don't accept God, Alyosha, I just more respectfully return to him the ticket." I'm sure my daughter would have preferred not to have her teeth brushed. And perhaps, she would claim that is the case "even if she was wrong." But I love her too much to let her rot :) You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

There is no proof of any such god. On the other hand, there is proof that the bible is wrong about a lot, e.g. age of the planet, humankind, and natural disaster. The bible never dates the planet, as much as some people, believers and not, would like to claim that it does. You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

By the same token, when one believes they know everything and something happens against what they would do, it's easy to condemn anyone that differs from you. Or plainly put, when you assume an omnipotent being would act as you would, and then doesn't, it's easy to claim God is lesser (or fictional, because if He was real, He'd do what I'd do). As long as we're talking children analogies, when we first started brushing our daughter's teeth, she screamed bloody murder. I'm sure if anyone overheard, they'd think we were beating her to death. I don't doubt one bit our daughter though we were the most horrible, cruel parents at the time of her meltdowns, thrashings, etc. And as much as I'd like to be able to explain her why things had to be so (brushing her teeth), and why in the end, she would be a thousand times better for it, I couldn't as she wasn't capable of such understanding. In the same way, if we assume for argument's sake, some sort of divine exists (omnipotent, omniscient, etc) the gap in knowledge and power is so vast that that god will undoubtedly do things that are ultimately "for the best" that we both fail to understand and think is quite horrid due to our limited scope of everything. You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

Poll this morning showed 43% of voters approving of Obama's position and 21% approving of the GOP position. link? You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

This is nonsense. The republicans have 1 portion of the govt, the house, and even that only recently. The dems have had both the Senate and the House since 06 (till 10) and for two years, they could have done whatever they wanted if they had the magic fix to everything (and the evil repubs were just stopping them). And just to quote a recent Rubio statement, "OK, so where’s the plan? Where’s the president’s plan? I’ve never seen a piece of paper with the president’s name on it that’s his plan to solve this crisis. I’ve seen press conferences. I’ve seen lectures that he’s given to the Congress. I’ve seen these press avails where the camera comes in and takes a bunch of pictures. I haven’t seen a plan. Where is the president’s plan?" Lastly, independents are taking note, and they're moving away from Obama and friends. All the polls show it. You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

That's right, the recession started when Democrats took over the house after the 2006 elections. I can tell you, I sold every paper investment I had at that time and bought gold. Smartest thing I ever did because I knew they would destroy the economy. I bought more stocks in the crash and they've done far better than gold could ever have dreamed. Ford was at a dollar a share, had a 52 week high of 18.97 (currently 12.70). Apple went from 80 something to 340ish. Siris was down .06 and is now 2.20 or so, etc. Besides, in Armageddon, ammo will be worth more than gold :) You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

Looks like to me a dump truck did it. You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

Do you know what extraneous means? I'm thinking you read my reply wrong. Because the genetic material remains the same [if you don't use outside genes]. You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

The decision was made in 1947. 1948 is the year of Israel's independence. Israel claims that the land the Palestinians know as their home was promised to them by some god. That is ridiculous to claim and there is absolutely no such proof of any such god. What Israel is doing would not be tolerated if any other country or State were to expand their borders by illegally occupying and building on land not theirs. What is applied to other countries should apply to Israel. No other country would stand being bombed, bombarded, blown up, etc. time and again by its neighbor either. Ever hear of POLAND? Look what happened to them :) I'll amend my statement so it reads "No other country *should*..." You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

By the same token, just because a proposal to an old law comes up, doesn't make it right or warranted either. You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

The decision was made in 1947. 1948 is the year of Israel's independence. Israel claims that the land the Palestinians know as their home was promised to them by some god. That is ridiculous to claim and there is absolutely no such proof of any such god. What Israel is doing would not be tolerated if any other country or State were to expand their borders by illegally occupying and building on land not theirs. What is applied to other countries should apply to Israel. No other country would stand being bombed, bombarded, blown up, etc. time and again by its neighbor either. You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.