BobKnoss

Wong Bob. 377 It is what happened. Wong or not. I report what I was told to report, not going to change it to make it sound good or more believable. It is what it was, and I can not help that. What Janet saw was sufficient to create a stir with Norjak. He wanted to scare her, and he did. She shut up. Case over. I couldn't make up anything so stupid. It is what really happened. Not my story. I can write a lot better stuff than that. Anybody can. The truth is not very interesting at all, story-wise. Except to sick, lonely, mental cases, with not enough money to become addicted to any serious intoxicants other than airplane glue.

I stand corrected, thank you. Take the Air Force plots and move them 15 miles west, since as a matter of record they were ordered to fly around Portland airspace, not directly over it. That puts that path directly over 'Janet's location, as per Cook.

I am not begging for anything. I am demanding the truth or an explanation. I am due that, everything considered.

No, my information is documented from many years ago and has not changed much at all. Ask Bill. Ask Mac. You and Jo have an adgenda that is inconsistent with what I know to be the truth. Why is that? I'm more than willing to listen to logic as I've stated hundreds of times, but all you come up with is crap that is not true. Tell me some truth and we can build your credibility from there. So far, you have none with me. Jo has a little, but she keeps burning the truth and building the crap. Why do you perpetuate this continual line of hogwash? What is so wrong with telling the truth? This joke is costing the Government a fortune over the years to perpetuate. What's the purpose? Explain it? PLEASE? "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, it is possible you don't understand the situation." So, I'm missing something basic here. If the Norjak guys didn't want me to know all this stuff, they shouldn't have laid it on me! Norjak did it, not me. "I thought you were the RECORDER? You dont need to beg for a job? You were the RECORDER! Itis YOU who provides the FBI details, not the reverese. You were the RECORDER. ..... REMEMBER?" OK. I'm lost. What are you trying to say? The FBI has told me nothing except they have a different way of seeing this. Not much help to me. I speak English, not ^mumbo-jumbo^. I was a witness for McCoy to be used as a supporting witness for his involvement in Project Norjak. I was not a 'recorder' for the whole project. I just recorded a lot more than I was supposed to, for my own protection. CYA.

I did not say Ralph threw anything. Usually flares are shot, right? I didn't say who launched the flare(s). I do not have to prove anything to you. My name is known and I've been recognized, they just don't want my input. I'm going to tell the truth anyway, because I HATE lies!! Either the truth or nothing at all. As long as there are lies being thrown out I will counter with the truth. Those who really count know what I am saying is correct. Some who are beginning to cut through the crap are catching on. You can not bury this stuff when it just keeps surfacing in new locations. It is like trying to sandbag the whole Mississippi, Missouri and Ohio water shed. It just doesn't happen. Too many people know. To much is getting out. Too many similar situations. It's a "Tricky Dicky," "Dirty Edgar," FAA/FBI solution to airline lobbying power to avoid new legislation dictating safety directives for the airline industry. It allowed Nixon by Executive Order to do what the pilots unions couldn't do by themselves. It started as a friendly conversation between two pilots and grew into a plan presented to other pilots then an FAA executive, retired, with connections, and grew from there. I'm no big shot. I was a draft dodger that got caught and punished. Nothing glorious in that. The only thing left is my honesty about refusing to participate in VietNam and holding the truth above the flotsam. America does not mean lies and deceit to me. I can't accept that view of our country. Not then, not now. No, I'm no big shot. I'm a stubborn old-fashioned American.

Reminds me of that scene in Silence of the Lambs... When they delivered the ransom to McCoy they did the opposite, wearing black wing-tip shoes with an airline mechanics-type suit. Guess they just aren't always 'sho-smart.'

First, you make a couple assumptions which I hold in question. I just don't know for sure what the actual altitude of the aircraft really was. I believe most of the flight data was intentionally faulty. I understood that with the opposing wind the actual forward speed of the plane was well less than the 200 speed and was even well below a 175 stall. The misreported flight path is substantiated by the fact that 'Janet' saw the plane on a flight path other than what was reported. If you assume for the purposes of discussion, that 'Janet' is correct, you must move the entire flight path 15 miles to the West of vector 23. This is consistent with my other claims based on other relative data, the pump house, oil pipeline, referenced mountain locations, the freeway, etc. All supporting the flight to be consistent with Janet's location at the time of her reported sighting. All supporting of the co-pilot's discussion with Himmelsbach, and myself. To the West! I was told by Richard Floyd McCoy, who was my supervisor in Project Norjak, that he, McCoy, made a visit to see 'Janet', and described to me exactly as 'Janet' described to Cook, his call in a black suit, identifying himself as an FBI Special Agent, and told her to, "Keep your fucking mouth shut!" Show Janet the picture of the McCoy stand in for the FBI training film I posted here. She might be able to ID 'Mac'. The reason this was done was because a lot of effort went into trying to place the flight path further East, confusing the drop zone from a clear landing location to a heavily wooded and treacherous area that a jumper could have perished in. Allowing her to continue her report would open a door that the small group of conspirators involved did not want opened. Robert Nicholson has posted information that supports this truth with deleted transcripts and telltale information. It would have been impossible to alter the true flight path from the record but the east-west positioning of the path was easy to alter. So, the flight path is correct, just not displayed on the map correctly. Move the flight path 15-20 miles west, just past the freeway, and it will line up over Janet. What Janet was able to see I can relate by comparison: The Grand Canyon is a mile deep at the ranch. I was able to see a mule train at the ranch, an angle of about 45° downward without the benefit of any back-lighting. Small signal lights can be seen for many, many miles. "One if by land and two if by sea." I once saw a barn burning at night from 15 miles away. Satellites orbit the earth anywhere from 100 miles and way up. Those little suckers can easily be seen with the naked eye when they blink. This has a significant bearing on visual calculations and, I believe, makes Janet's story completely believable. Now whether Janet saw some dude on the stairway may be an exaggeration, but the firing of the flare is confirmed by Himmelsbach in his book, and by McCoy's report to me of their pursuit in the helicopter. Mac said they fired the flair to help see if they could see a parachute, but all it did was blind them in the light snowfall. I don't know how many flares were sent up, what the altitude was, or any of that stuff, I was not there. All I have is confirming testimony from numerous qualified witnesses. Ask all the witnesses the same question and you get the same answer? That makes for evidence. Ralph ain't speaking all the truth yet. Just what he wants to.

REPEAT: Let's discuss Lyle's letter from Kenny asking to be a strawman Cooper. Rataczak told me about it before you started your book. If you are so honest and diligent, you should be able to clear up this matter in short order. Jo asks: "What did Grey discover during his own investigation that made him decide to go a different way? I know why, but then that will be revealed when his book comes out." ~ Grey worked with Porteous, if that gives you any clues. I think Grey is an honest and trustworthy person in whom I have total confidence and the highest respect. Smith appears to be in the same category. Blevins, you can't possibly be so nieve as to go through all that effort and miss the headline, "Lyle Fulfills Brother's Last Wish!" "Cooper for a Day!" The more you type, the less respect we have for you. Time for the old lady to bring the ceiling down on you and save what's left. The "Janet thing" is a rare bit of truth that peeks through that blue cloud of bovine flatulence to which I referred. If Jerry means what he said, No More Fiction, he will confirm 'Janet's' story. I have documentation that confirms it is true. Bob Knoss

In 1968 he wore a pair of lace-up short boots, ankle high for doing yard work. Beat up and not polished in months. Brown. I watched him tie a shoe and break the lace. He retied the break and retied the shoe while he recited some Indian poem that I can't remember. For jumping he wore beat up old brown combat boots that looked like they were ready to fall apart. I'm sure he had at least one pair of nice shoes, but I never saw them. Of course, Jo will refute everything I've said here, because she didn't get a chance to review it first. It will be all wrong because he never wore lace up shoes.

I told you so! I told you so! Cooper WAS George Gobel. And this proves it! I TOLD YOU SO! Haul out Jerry's brown shoe picture again, dig up Gobel and put that shoe on him. Farflung's got our man! It would be like OJ's trial all over again, only better.

REPEAT: Let's discuss Lyle's letter from Kenny asking to be a strawman Cooper. Rataczak told me about it before you started your book. If you are so honest and diligent, you should be able to clear up this matter in short order.

The last Superbowl DBC with Ralph, Bill, Nick, and who-all was a total bust concluding that McCoy and Cooper were one in the same. Not very interesting at all, even to DBC addicts. You want to put people with less credibility on a show with admitted hoaxers to do what? Tell boring 40 year old Sasquash-type stories and call each other liers, crazy, fabricators, hoaxers, and everything else we have used, collectively? You have the wrong show. You want to do a SPECIAL. The Jerry Springer Show for the Senile and Infirmed. Crutches, wheelchairs, slow drips, straight-jackets, Dr. Lector face-masks, I can see the panel now. Don't get a late night time slot, we'll all miss it. That would put the infamous Jessie James true grave site fight to shame. What? You never heard of that one? Maybe nobody really gives a shift?

Because you have absolutely no sense of humor at all! At least my failure to believe what you say is that I know better from a factual matter, I actually KNOW what happened and don't have to try to reconstruct what happened by sifting through fabrications, misdirection, fables and little bits of truth. They even get me off base on stuff by 'carrot on a stick' tactics. Takes a while to see the string sometimes. You refuse to see it, I look for it. I am really impressed by your ability to pick and choose, selectively dispose of and exonerate various pieces of information. Through some magic spell, you can associate one cloud of extraneous bovine flatulation with a dried clump of moose scat and create a living breathing Sasquash with a Mohawk haircut and designer jeans. And that's real because you took a trip to Washington State and someone showed you a footprint and a petrified turd. It is just not evidence. Evidence is a statement from Bill that can be varified by at least one or more valid sources. Some of your information is almost real evidence from Duane. Most of it is as 'Jerry' says. In any case, it appears that the concensus is that we throw you under the bus, because you are so far off so often. Not a good witness. Nuttall is credible and percentage-wise, just as close as you to the truth and still protects the FBI from another Waco/Ruby Ridge type story. They will endorse Nuttall and sink your ship. I'll return in ten years from out of the blue with the 50th Anniversary tell-all picture book.

Just playing my part as one of your triumvirate, Jerry, Bob and Duane the tool. A T-bone is not a collision in the back it is a side-impact. The 'crew' of girls have a Bronco. You are even more wrong than Nuttall as I stated before. Throw half of each of your stories in the trash and you have the truth. As normal, you want to throw out the wrong half! Absolutely astounding! Mac. Mac. Mac.

After we discussed your accident I inquired as to any intentional involvement by anyone involved with Norjak. The results were negative, it was just a simple accident type accident, not intentional, although nobody was upset. You probably were at fault and did not stop where you should have? Two women drivers. Two women in a Bronco.... driver's side impact... Gotta be just a high probability coincidence. They didn't back up and hit you a second time. Race car drivers from Georgia......... http://www.southwestdrags.com/races/2006/sand%20drags/sanddrags923/sd_4.jpg

Tell Julie my heart goes out to her, a second time.

Jo and I get it regularly. It has become my middle name. You can mask it with pleasantries but there is not much one can do to address the situation without trying to get to the point one way or another. It is all just opinions, points of view, perspectives, and displays of temper from one and all. Some of us actually believe our own lies, not knowing if it was left or right. We all try to be sincere, we just have different ways of trying to make our points, even if they are deceptive. If none of us agree and everyone is telling the truth, there is an anomaly, call it whatever you like. Something is rotten in Denmark. I have gotten a few things wrong in the past, but it takes a good long heated argument to clear the air. Come on over, sit down and discuss it. Leave your sidearm at home. You KNOW I'm one Hell of a lot more knowledgeable than Nuttall and my son is a very good publicist. He knows what it takes for your story to be a best seller, and it is NOT a skeleton in the foyer like Mac's DVD, or Duane's bones hanging in a tree.

Tell Julie my heart goes out to her, a second time.

Why were all of my emails to Bill over the past 15 years addressed to you?? Even if you are who you say you are, you represent who I am speaking to. Simply fax it like you previously did everything else. The message is the same, I'm talking to the same person I have always spoken to. Schizophrenia, dyslexia, cancer, whatever, it is a lot to deal with. "But watch that re entry.I'm told it's mind altering.Jerry," Based on what was done to Tina, I take that as another clear threat.

I kinda believe that. Saying you were east of Vector 23 when you were west is not the truth. Saying Scott never went back to sit beside Duane is not the truth, when the NW book says the Captain has to investigate. Saying Tina is fine is not the real truth when she lives in a hypnotic suggested state. Saying I am not telling the truth is a lie. You only see what you want to see or what you want others to see. You damage people. You waste their lives, like Ralph spending all of his time covering for you, Jo who fights your every step. Or my father who just laid down and died because he didn't want to know any more. The years I spent in protection with Bernie, the mental anguish I went through coming out of BlueBird. Most of us in MKUltra commit suicide because we can't get the proper help. I'm luck, so far. And I'm still willing to help you, if you will tell the truth. Not telling the truth is the same as lying, it is just as deceitful. "I did not have sex with that woman, Miss Lewinsky!" ~President Clinton. From your crude comments and the French whore perfume to Tina, to the repeated threats to me of physical harm, scaring Jo into the emergency room, Mac's threats to 'Janet', it never stops... Voting to 'whack' Duane on his death bed, years of propaganda presentation to TV audiences. You tried to tell the truth in your black and white movie with Scotty, but you couldn't quite do it. Your time has come to be a stand-up guy for the American people and tell what really goes on. If they do whack you, you haven't lost much. I will stand right beside you. P.S. Don't let them give you any medical pain 'patches' for your back!

I too have only one wish. That is that you would either tell the truth or shut up! The problem is not Jo's is is YOURS! She is just another victim of YOUR doing, like my father, Tina, and everyone else you impact. Look at what you do!!

[reply One thing to consider: If he and his wife were terminal, or REALLY sick, they probably wouldn't be going on vacation. He's fine.... My best to him. Sorry to hear I made the list along with Duane and Jerry. I'm in good company. Mexico is the trip of last resort for cancer patients, i.e. Steve McQueen, etc. http://www.cancure.org/directory_mexican_clinics.htm http://www.kwintessential.co.uk/articles/article/Mexico/Cancer-Treatment-Mexico/684 When you really love someone you try everything. Ralph does not lie, he just doesn't tell the truth. There is a difference. Jerry, on the other hand, will only tell a lie 180° from the facts and is unable to tell the truth. Jo won't accept the truth and is a sponge for any lie. She won't lie herself, but re-fabricates the truth to her own rose colored perspective that becomes her indisputable truth. Bruce searches for the truth and may be the only bell weather in the story. McCoy and O'Hara know the truth, but won't say a word. Brevans writes the biggest lie ever concocted about the Cooper incident in total blindness of the truth and declares Washingtonian purity despite an open letter to the contrary. The 'clean-up crew' doggedly follows directions and harasses Jo or Bob or whomever happens to be on an intelligent path of discovery, developing contradictions to every truth. The FBI steers their boat betwix the flotsam as it rises from the murk, resinking anything of critical value. And Tina counts the stars in the heavens, unaware of the magic slippers that keep her afloat. I'll be around to clean up the debris ten years from now when the dust has settled and the light shines a little brighter on the truth. I just keep on recording everything. It really does help to know the truth when you are trying to wade through the flotsam. It refuses to stay down. I have to keep reminding myself of the big picture: "It is difficult to remember, when you are up to your ass in alligators, that the original objective was to drain the swamp."

Jerry: Tell us on DZ about the letter in KC's will wanting to be another DB Cooper hoax.

OK, I'll bite. Tell him you represent Bill and can speak for him, Let's see if Bill shows up. Bill is very sick and needs your help. His book needs truthful validation from the FBI. You can help him, Jerry. Remember why Bill wanted to write your book? For the family? It won't be salable unless it is the truth and validated by the FBI. George is talking about fiction. In fiction, Cooper would have to perish to be salable, but he already told that story. Bill's family is screwed unless the TRUE story is told. Let Bill speak, Jerry.

Ask George if he knows your real name, then tell him who you really are. Hopefully he won't have a heart attack. He still won't change his mind! That man is impossible! If you think Jo is a 'stuck-in-the-mud' you ain't met George. I will lay odds that he tries to tell YOU what you did!