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That's lame, Don. As lame as the War on Drugs ever was. There comes a time when survival of the Nation outweighs the offending of some people's sensitivities. Those Times are usually brought about when bad people hide behind the rules of law (which they hijacked). Unfettered Migration ended w/WW1. The need for control seen then didn't include a number of contemporary threats we now have. I'm aware of the history. The longer this threat is allowed to grow, unchecked? The more extreme the inevitable response will be. That's how some really bad shit has happened in history, Don. Not taking care of business now will bring us there, as well. What kind of Logic are you working with, Don? Are You suggesting we hold everything in this country static to a 1700's template ? It wouldn't be possible to build walls that tall & strong. That's even more laughable than Wendy's idea of turning the USA into another Third World sewer . Put down the debate book, Don...

"Well now ain't that "convenient" " Necessary. The madness wrought in this area might require the pendullum to swing the other way for a time. So it's always been so in history.

Would that be all the people who do claim to be Americans.. yet can not tolerate the constitution?? The Constitution doesn't support wholesale illegal immigration. In times of war, parts of The Constitution have been suspended. This is a war.

"I'm interested in where you got the number of 20 million." Multiple Net & Media sources often cite 12-20 million as the approximate amount. Given the Govt.'s pentient for lying about figures, I wouldn't be surprised if it's much higher. Anchor Babies would be an example of that. They're also illegal, & shouldn't be here. Illegal immigrants utilizing American health care, paid for by American Welfare, don't have American citizens pop out... "We're forcibly deporting a lot more people now, running them through deportation centers." A lot more ?? There were some high profile raids done during the run up to an election year. Then, Crickets... Obamanos had the audacity to order a complete halt of them. The forced deportations were never more than a drop in the bucket. That's why Arizona finally started doing the Fed's job, for them. "make the US less attractive (which would probably make it less attractive for citizens, too) make the countries of origin more attractive, which would mean more aid to those countries, most probably in the form of infrastructure improvements." Why the Hell would the US do either?? We're certainly not going to turn the country into another Third World rat hole . It isn't our responsibility to rebuild/reform other Nations (equally ), either. "Personally, I don't want to live in a police state, or even one where it's OK for me because I'm blond, but wouldn't be if I were hispanic." I'd say we already live in more of a police state than you realize. The Govt. just wants one w/cheap labor that comes w/porous borders. You're always free to renounce your citizenship, Wendy. The time when PC BS would deflect focus on this problem is long past. Hispanics comprise the largest illegal immigration population. Checking identities on little old white women won't help us find illegal Hispanics...

"FIFY. Do see your point but when using the Nazis as your template..." Once again, I wasn't abvocating that we all run out & buy armbands. It was merely a reference to technological improvements.

Who said anything about replicating the Final Solution ?? I'm comparing technologies, nothing more. This Country has many problems. A number of those problems could be improved by ridding ourselves of the estimated 20 million people who don't belong here.

It wasn't a cheap shot (?). They had far less technology than we do, now. The Jews weren't trying to get out. They were hiding. They were found & deported. If that was done w/paper ledgers & steam powered trains. I'd say we can do markedly better, nowadays.

"I'm not saying that we don't have an illegal immigrant problem. I am saying that it's not simple to resolve; it'll be expensive, and it'll be unpleasant for a number of people. If you're only willing for it to be unpleasant for others, then it's not a realistic plan. E.g. being able to question people who look brown just because they look brown; house-to-house searches; a giant Berlin-wall type of structure with machine gun turrets along the border." I wouldn't have a problem w/any of that. In fact, I'd say it's long overdue... I'm of the opinion that we can't afford not to. If the Nazis could pull it off in '40s Europe. We can certainly do a better job, today. Here's to hoping we can abolish H1Bs along w/this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmOiyrsCRNA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kJ3iORtWeuQ Couldn't find the guy who hit the hangar door, but here's two more.

"As a former Argus owner, i decided I was better off jumping with NO AAD rather than one that could possibly malfunction and not allow me to deploy my own reserve." Didn't all the container manufacturers who could have their reserves locked in like that, outright ban the Argus?

This?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lehGkRCFXY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDUPAkuWP4Y The Vigil in the second video had some problems BEFORE the jump. The first link, yes. Though, I don't recall seeing him swoop in. Perhaps I saw a shorter clip. I never saw the second vid, before.

It could be done for far less than that. More importantly, I think you're missing the bigger picture, here.

I saw both a couple of years ago on Youtube. No time to search, now. I'm at work. Both Jumpers were in the pattern. One had a smallish canopy, & was landing straight in. The reserve PC popped out about 75' off the ground. He wasn't going fast enough for extraction. Second Jumper was new A license under a large canopy. Had just turned onto final when his reserve PC popped out. He was flying right in front of a hangar. The resultant two-out slammed him into the hangar's door, breaking his femur. It was unknown in both cases, I think, when the units actually fired. I'm not making assumptions. I'm putting this out here for more knowledgable people to hash out.

However, if the cutter sits above your reserve d-bag or your reserve pilot chute and it fails to completely cut the loop, yet entrapping it so that no deployment can occur, you might want to reconsider that statement. JerryBaumchen Or, if the damn Thing goes off outside of parameters, while deploying or head-down To my knowledge this has never been documented with any of the modern AAD’s. It has happened many times with mains. You can speculate about possible scenarios all day but decisions should be made on fact not emotion. Sparky I've seen two vids of AAD fires while jumpers were landing. Neither was a swoop, & one was a super slow canopy. Stands to reason that they could fire at other times, too.

"Maybe catching the illegal aliens who vote would be the thing to do." Maybe throwing them all out because they don't belong here is the thing to do?? Democrat States are giving them welfare, free health care, & reduced/FREE tuition!

However, if the cutter sits above your reserve d-bag or your reserve pilot chute and it fails to completely cut the loop, yet entrapping it so that no deployment can occur, you might want to reconsider that statement. JerryBaumchen Or, if the damn Thing goes off outside of parameters, while deploying or head-down

That's fine w/me. I don't want to force anyone to have to bring their passports & licenses to the voting stations. I just want illegals to be excluded from voting. That can be established beforehand.

"But - would that mean he/she/it was mentally ill then, or now? Does that open the door for a ruling that all trans genders are mentally ill?" I don't consider myself very knowledgeable about most law matters, but isn't the distinction for an insanity defense whether or not they can distinguish right from wrong? Sounds like the Subject knew right from wrong.

GD, That's extreme ... What ever happened to extra chunky Jiff?

Very interesting: http://www.theatlantic.com/features/archive/2014/03/the-toxins-that-threaten-our-brains/284466/

W/all the organizations & manufacturers who have banned them. Who is still buying the things ??

"Whether you drink or not, whether you want to buy 'beer' (which can be cupcakes if you want..and it is a lot like bringing treats to grade school) by leaving when your done you are missing out on where most of the learning used to and still should take place... We hung out at the DZ all WEEKEND and learned all we could from the old farts." I hear ya. I often only have Sundays to jump. Everyone tends to leave earlier for home, then. On the Saturdays that I'm @a DZ, the beer light always seems to come on, & come on brightly. I've gotten plenty of advice & tips from up-jumpers, & said Thank You w/a case. That's usually when I buy the stuff. I just don't like being around when the music gets loud, & the drinking gets louder. Staying later wouldn't help me much w/getting sage advice from the old Dawgs, anyway. Most of them leave when that light comes on. too . "The time sparky feels a sting from a 200 jump wonder I'LL BUY BEER." Then, you owe beer, Terry.

Your grasp of American History is a little off. The BoR was not an "afterthought." The whole Constitution was adopted "15 years after the new country was born." The BoR was part of it because the only way a strong central government was going to be approved was if there were guarantees for the rights of the citizens to be in place. And the situation in the link in the OP seems to indicate that the "need" for the 2nd is still very real. And you seem to be deliberately ignoring the basic fact that in the past 20 years there has been a huge increase in the number of guns in the hands of the American public, millions of carry permits issued, yet crime has gone down. So from a "per gun" perspective, rates of accidents and homicides have dropped pretty dramatically. "More guns, less crime" has been noted by the pro-gun folks, but pretty much ignored by those who oppose them. Don't go confusing them w/facts, Joe. It really messes w/their heads ... Feels like Berkley.com in here

That Community is there all day, wendy. It doesn't just come out when noses n cheeks get red. I'm far from the only jumper who says their Thank Yous & Goodbyes before an evening's carnage begins. I respect your right to enjoy the bevies of your choice. Respect my right to not like being around drinking, & carrying on.