skyflower_bloom

haha i don't know what that means but i think we crossed posts. i am a writer. i have to write long stream of consciousness shit and edit it down. i do what works for me. can you handle the above version? cause that's about all you're gonna be able to get outta me right now. maybe a "glad you aren't dead" would be in order instead of a sad mean little squiggle face "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

So, trying to get my canopy skills (landing accuracy) figured out has been my goal lately, for my final A card sign-off. Went to do hop n pops today and went from the 240 main to the 190. Second jump of the day (1st on the 190 transition/sport main), and I had my first cutaway (and my best landing, and my A license signed off- woohoo!) The skydive was a little screwy from the start.. I was first out and only hop n pop on load, and I had the "go" idiots hollering a bit and freaking me out in the door.. that said I realize I need to get over it and not let other people's comments or issues mess with my focus on a jump. But I did let it get to me, rushed out, and I immediately tumbled the exit. I did get onto belly fairly immediately to pull, but it was not the most ideal deployment position which could surely have contributed. Opened into a brisk spin to the right, and immediately checked the brakes/toggles- sure enough, they were either stowed really funky/unequally, or there had been a brake fire. The left one was also wrapped around itself a bit, but not to the point I couldn't get it fixed- not knotted or anything, at least where I could see and access it. I got the toggle situation figured out, but the canopy was still pitching a little bit and not responding, and upon another visual inspection I realized that there was something off/twisty with a line over another line on the left side- not wrapped around the whole canopy like around top to bottom and back, but caught up on some of the fabric somehow. I did do a quick pull to try to pressurize it (also had a closed end cell or two, though looking back it could have just looked that way because it was part of the weird entanglement/possible brake line over, from what others have deduced. There was clearly no response attempting to pressurize the canopy and inflate all the cells that way) but yeah, it was not responding in any sort of a normal way, and with the slight spin still going on, though much less rapid after I fixed the brake fire, was definitely not at all land-able, so I wasn't going to waste any more time. I had looked at alti when I first opened into the start of the spin, the point where when I noticed a not quite square or stable/canopy, and was around 3500 (exit a bit over 4k), so I guess by the time I fixed the brake issue, analyzed the lines/canopy, and took a couple seconds to mentally prepare myself for a cutaway and double check my handle locations, I was at 3k ft exactly when I decided/started to initiate EPs. Honestly all I have to say is that you can never touch and look at those three handles enough times- it may save your life. I am eternally grateful I was trained in the habit of touching my handles in the order of use multiple times pre-boarding and on plane, and to visually locate where and how they shift. Also, it was not how I expected my first cutaway to be. I don't know how to explain it, it just felt different. I guess I worried I would screw something up, but more than that, it was just easier in a way- the pull force needed was not as much as I expected, it went smoothly, and there was a canopy over my head. The rsl coulda beat me though; I didn't really think about it.. But for all the newer jumpers like me, just know that practicing and discussing EPs will make life a hell of a lot easier and less scary one day (it was still a bit scary though haha! more of in shock for a bit I guess, a "holy shit" moment.. you know you are probably safe, but that moment you have to choose the course of action is INTENSE) Just know that it is totally do-able. I actually found it hilarious that my final landing goal and A card accomplishment was completed on my first reserve ride. It's actually really comforting to know how well the system works (gear and training program), that one has the presence of mind to deal with it appropriately when it does happen. I owe a lotta beer from this weekend I know lol.. Thanks to the amazing staff at SK for supporting me when the going got tough and for continuing to work with me. Anyway, mostly just sharing my story with newer/student jumpers and well as the experienced folk (ok, and bragging a little that I FINALLY managed my license after 30 jumps! and managed to successfully live another day!) but would be more than happy to hear others' thoughts on their first cutaways, or any analysis of things I may not yet have talked or thought about in the cutaway situation.. thanks!! ------ oh, and.. I do honestly wonder with the line over (they believe it was a steering line, since the initial issues and spin were linked to the brakes, at least that was the impression I got) --I wonder though if it was mainly body position (obviously couldn't impact the toggles being stowed or a brake fire, but the line over, if that is what the mal was, which seems likely) or if that's irrelevant. i.e. if I had the presence of mind to address the brake fire and hang up, & to stop the spiral, which I did, with plenty of altitude left, would it likely have been fine then? I do realize that we will never know for sure, and I certainly don't need Monday morning QBing brought down upon myself, but I am just curious about that particular situation.. I had just flipped to my belly from tuble/back to side to belly, so while I *was* in the *basic* appropriate position with arms up in an arch and belly to earth, I did not yet have that stable "riding the air cushion" effect and was rocking a bit (and still on the hill, which didn't help). idk, blue ones, peace out~ R "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

Haha point well taken. So, we need stories!! Fill me in on your shenanigans! Cookies? "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

Alright, so I made the leap. Non-refundable tix for Elsinore (fly into LAX at 6 am on the 19th, and leave at noon on the 24th). Staying in the bunk house, likely planning to badger people to help me out with rides to and from the airport in exchange for beer, gas money, and or jump tickets.. the barter system seems to work well in the jump community And if any other skydiving parents want to trade off childcare I am all for it- or if your kids are grown and you miss the babes, could be fun times for all (but am also going to have a designated person to help much of the time) Wow can't believe it, that in less than three weeks I'll be at Elsinore-- wheee! Cali here I come.. but I'll be out at SKSPC in oh about 6 hours, and Sunday too, so I can't really complain.. gotta work on those landings like a mofo. Thanks for all the feedback, and please pm me me with tips or if you are willing to show me the ropes or get a jump in with me! I plan to jump Friday aft/evg, and all day Sat/Sun, a day off Monday to hang with kiddo, maybe Perris or tunnel on Tues, and a few more at Lake E before I have to catch my flight on Wed. Can't wait!! Thanks again so much for the feedback! Look forward to meeting some of you, and hopefully you'll get along with my wild li'l toddler man too blues, R "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

awww welcome home and thanks for everything!! where should i hide my kid so i can come to the farm tomorrow ;) you better come n get your jump on with me soon mister... and did you drunken text me for no reason?? WELCOME GOME! and uhh fuck him!! woohoo!! "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

Thanks for the replies!! Sounds like I have some good options at this point. It's nice to hear other peoples' perspectives. Now, if only I could just spend the whole winter touring *all* of them I welcome any other feedback and will let you guys know what the plan winds up being! Can't wait! Lots of other canopies in the sky just make me nervous because I am still struggling with the canopy control as far as landing where I want to land, and the ability to fly a predictable pattern to do so. So it seems something with a very large landing area and/or a separate student and HP landing areas would be useful for me in this regard. Plus I know that with my jump numbers I don't have the experience or skills to react as well to a close call, so I figure it's better not to push it with a high traffic LZ. But, I am working on hop n pops and with coaches to try to get my landing pattern/approach more accurate, so I do plan to continue working on improving this before traveling. Thanks again for the feedback!! Blue ones! "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

Thanks Wendy for posting this!! I did my 24th through 27th jumps today.. still no A license as I am having a lot of trouble getting my canopy where I want it (the opposite of your struggles lol).. I am sticking with it though- I have one more A card requirement of a fifth landing within 20 meters of a preselected target, so will not be able to get my license until I improve my canopy skills and get the final accurate landing signed off. Nice to know that there are others out there who have had longer progressions or struggled with some aspect of the sport and have persevered. S&S, I too am overshooting which is where my canopy/landing issues come in- I am getting closer to where I want to be but still often overshoot it.. so frustrating! I am on a huge canopy with very light wing loading at about a 0.6, so it is very "floaty," but I realize I should be able to do this by now.. it just does not come naturally to me and is taking me longer to figure it out than for most. I think a lot of it is just doing the jumps and getting more experience (with any problem area really- you can get feedback and all which helps, but you really just have to DO it, in the sky, to improve, so I say the best thing is to keep discussing it and then keep making the jumps!) For people like you and me it just may take longer to get that particular part figured out fully.. but I have to trust I will get it down, and it is getting better, albeit slowly. What I have been doing past few jumps, and plan to continue doing for the time being, is just 3.5-4 k hop and pops now that I have met all my initial A card freefall and training objectives.. just focusing solely on the canopy, and having the landing area to myself so that I can work on it without traffic around too.. something to think about perhaps. Hope that everyone else who is in a similar position reads this and keeps working at it! I know it is worth it so I'll be hop n popping until I get the landing point down. It's certainly nice to see the perspective of someone who managed to overcome student progression issues and go on to succeed in the sport. Thanks again for this thread! "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

Windy on Saturday, managed to get just 1 in at sunset. 4 for Sunday- 2 full altitude and 2 hop n pop. 4 is the most I've ever done in a day so far! 5 total

Hey guys.. So, I am 3 jumps from my A license (woohoo!), and it's getting to be that time of year in the midwest.. I would like to plan to be somewhere warm this fall/winter and get a week or so of jumpage in (post-A license, will have between 25-35 jumps or so when I go). I am slightly concerned about going to a big event or large dropzone with lots of traffic since I am used to being in the air with 5-12 others, at a moderately sized club dropzone. Boogies sound fun but the practical part of me says that just a normal jumping week should be safer for my first time traveling, at my experience level. Anyone have thoughts on either specific places, or specific types of events or qualities to look for in a 'destination' dz, when selecting where to travel for one's first.. uhh i mean pre-second jump trip? I know that some of them like Elsinore are listed as having a lot of free workshops and available coaching and organizing for newer jumpers which appeals.. I am however concerned about the possibility of wind and terrain conditions being very different or requiring more experience. Just want to go somewhere that is going to be a good fit for a less experienced jumper and not get in over my head! Love to hear where others have gone early in their jumping careers and the pros/cons. Thanks for any input!! Blues, R "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

Mornin there!! How goes it? Looks like we are going to get a hail storm, the weather right now looks kinda freakish.. no good at all for my weekend, but then maybe I will get some studying done Hope you are well!!

Yes, I have no copy/paper SIM. I do have the link bookmarked on my browser though; specific section references are useful; thank you. In my post I did state that I felt I should already know more than I do and be comfortable spotting. I also attributed some of this to switching DZs, injury, travel, and multiple instructors, but commented that overall I would like to see more instructors who take the time to teach this, and BUILD on it, as well as recognized the need for me as a student to take initiative and seek out more training and info on something that I know I need to know but don't. Thanks for the refs in the SIM, I'll read through them right now. Also, thanks so much DeNReN and wolfriverjoe for the helpful input.. I definitely would like spotting and familiarity with these concepts to be something I focus my next few weekends of jumping on as I get near to the A licensing requirements, hoping to complete the A this season. The links and tips are all very helpful and give me plenty to read up on and discuss next time I am at the dz. Appreciate it! Better to know how to spot and not need it most of the time, than not know how and wind up needing it even once, for sure! And I think the basic mentality and awareness that goes along with it-- I would like to have that added dimension of control of visually referencing before exit and knowing that I am comfortable with what I see.. I do see it as an important skill despite technology.. it just doesn't seem to come as easy to me as to some but I will be working at it! "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

And how do you do that? I sort of believed it would just become intuitive over time of being told where it was, but it doesn't seem any more intuitive than it used to.. is there some sort of formula for knowing this?? Some of us have much less positional/geographic instincts than others, so to some that might come naturally but to me that is something I will need to be taught and/or force myself to learn very intentionally and specifically. I am not disagreeing, I would like to know, but don't have any idea how one would go about teaching OR learning that...? "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

I know I SHOULD know how to spot comfortably by A license. I also get freakishly nervous about spotting (yes the goal is to leave the plane, but sticking my head and torso out when I don't intent to leave freaks me out). I don't think at my 18 jumps I could do it so far if the load was depending on it or the technology failed. Because first off I don't know WHAT I am looking for and am not far enough into jump numbers to really get a feel for what things do and/or should look like (plus I switched dzs at 5 jumps so I don't have 18 jumps in a row at one place, and I had a couple minor injuries and travel plans this summer which gave me a few bigger gaps between student jumps). Also, I jump with different instructors and coaches as it is a mid-size drop-zone, some don't have you do anything re: the spot, but one recently really made me get my head out there and tell him when we were over the dz, I just don't think one jump/spot is enough to learn the skill. That said, as a student I realize I need to be proactive and engage in actually looking before I get out (I am still accustomed to letting the coach spot and check in via eye contact with coach, and going by that and the green light, which I realize I need to not do, especially since my jump this weekend, coach climbed out first but I was the first to exit the plane-- and my instinct was to look UP at him and the light, not DOWN at what I was about to dive into. Hmmm that actually is not at all good, but I guess part of me feels like I wouldn't have any idea whether what I was seeing was a "good" or "bad" spot anyway-- hence the need to continue to learn I guess! I did feel some pressure from the other skydivers yelling to go this past jump, which doesn't happen often in my own experience but I guess now that I have enough jumps and have been around most of the season, people are taking the "kid gloves" off and such (where I don't think anyone at my dz would tell an AFF level student to "go go go" and some people have thought I had my A already..) I also think that because that specific day was very hit or miss due to weather and cloud base, people wanted to ensure they got their jump in on that load? But still, I can say as a student I realize I need to continue to practice/learn spotting, I appreciate the coaches and instructors who push you out of your comfort zone and make you do it even though it makes me nervous, and I can say with certainty that as a student with 18 jumps, I don't like people yelling while I am in the door (but I don't think I would like that with 1800 jumps either-- just that as a student, you may need a few seconds in the door to get ready, and I feel kind of intimidated to take the time to spot or try to learn it when I am early out and a whole load is waiting to go.. maybe I should ask to go on a load where I can help spot and plan around that, with other students, or ask to go up in the smaller plane?) I know in theory I am supposed to spot for my 3500 foot hop n pop, and I would not feel comfortable doing that today.. so yeah I would say we have become very reliant on the little green light and the GPS, but I do see some staff really making students stick their heads out and trying to teach that skill. I also think students need to be proactive, but when they are, the other jumpers should be understanding that they might get to the door 10 or 15 seconds later, and that they too were once a student learning these things.. blues, R "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

Freaking awesome, best jumping video I have seen like that (longer/documentary/journal style) but geez leave some fun for the rest of us? Lol.. you probably managed to check off about 100 items on the to-do list.. this was all done in one summer/season?? Nice work and thanks for sharing

+1 Going to cry in my bed under my comforter. Wah... "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

Definitely. A big moral issue, as well as liability, not legal-sense liability necessarily, moreso just the feeling of being *responsible* and that if I talked someone into something or caused them to do something they wouldn't otherwise do, then something happened, I couldn't live with that.. But once I had outlined my own experience, answered their questions, asked if they were sure they wanted to jump and then I turned it over to them as adults, and the DZ waiver and training to inform them better than I could of what to expect and the risks and benefits. Both were very happy they jumped and thanked me for being the final 'step' in their journey to get there, both having said it was something they'd wanted to do before discussing it with me, so I feel good having helped (via discussion about my passion for the sport, and providing a ride and support) two people make their first jumps. Oh and @Melissa that is too funny, your dad not only came but he did a tandem!? AWESOME :) It feels so good to share the sport with friends and family, whether they are watching or jumping. The two times I accompanied someone to do their first tandem I just shared my own enthusiasm and answered their questions as best as I could, and made sure to be straightforward about the risks and benefits. Plus once that was clear it was their choice, the dz and waiver do some educating on the safety aspect as well, and the risks.. so as long as I know that both I and they feel it is their choice, they can then deal with the dz, as an adult, and make that choice to jump! (or not). Oh and both times I was headed to a dz that day anyways so made sure it was a no pressure situation- i.e. "I am driving there either way, no extra time/gas wasted if you choose not to," etc. It's not for everyone, agreed, and you would feel awful (general you, not addressed to any certain poster or post, just addressing the issues Southern Man brought up) if you feel you pushed someone and then they were injured or worse.. unlikely, but not a good scenario to contemplate.. I know people on here have talked about in relationships when one jumps and the other does not, and that some really bad experiences have come about when a jumping partner or boy/girlfriend pressures someone into when they are really afraid or do not want to- even in an "uneventful" jump, it is no good to have someone doing it to go along with a group and appear to have "balls," on a dare, or especially on pressure from a close friend or romantic partner. A big part of skydiving is personal freedom and personal responsibility; any convincing or coercing takes away from that, and their experience! Part of it (a big part in my opinion) is making one's own decision to make a skydive. But I am guessing most people who would say they "talked someone into" it are meaning that, by their enthusiasm and willingness to support someone making a jump, they allowed it to happen for that person- not that there are a bunch of people (hopefully!) who are being forced to make tandems lol.. but when that does occur under pressure of course it is a serious situation and not cool. Though I must say, in Oregon, my friend was all excited talking about how he always wanted to go and was asking questions then stopped abruptly and looked down at my (sprained, bandaged) ankle and he goes, "wait... you didn't do that *skydiving* did you?" LOL I was like uhhhh yeah I did... he was like ok.... jumped and loved it but it was too funny. "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

Yep So, when do we think the shit is gonna hit the proverbial fan here? Or do we get away with this kind of shit here? "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

+1 And I'll add a couple other basics here: Altimeter: $75-300 Goggles: $10-250 Again, the quoted post above is pretty much right on for the highs and lows that i have seen too, and I agree w/ idea to check the classifieds and see the range and what the different prices get you there. Just wanted to add the other basics- alti and goggles- feels good as a student approaching licensing to have and start accumulating a few of your own skydiving "somethings," and you don't necessarily have to invest too much to get those things. Sense of ownership even if you are not financially or mentally ready to buy a complete rig, or even if you have done so but are waiting 20+ weeks for the manufacturer to finish your custom rig lol, etc. I think it is nice to have those little things be yours and be to your liking asap/over time in your early jumping if you know you'll be continuing that is.. I'd say maybe once well through most of your early progression or AFF, you should for sure have a "real" logbook purchased and filled in, and maybe consider starting with something like a $10-20 pair of normal skydiving goggles. Getting closer to licensing and certain you will continue in the sport if at all feasible, then maybe things like alti, cheaper used or new (i.e. pro-tec) helmet, jumpsuit. And then depending on your instructors' feedback and your mind state and finances, discuss when it makes sense to purchase a rig! (typically done anytime at or after A licensing it seems, but can vary) Also ask about their rental policies for recent graduates and costs there, options there, etc. at your dz, as even if you custom order a rig you may be waiting awhile while it is made for you and jumping rental in the interim- which will likely, at least at a smaller or mid-size dz, be the same or similar gear to what you used as a student! With a rig for jumping (skydiving)-- Don't forget about things like those which need replacing (lines/risers need replacing regularly, etc.), the maintenance (repack of reserve $40-50 to rigger on regular cycle of 180 days I believe, and after a cutaway obviously; AAD maintenance ex. every 4 years with Cypres plus batteries, etc.) and the cost of replacing lost or damaged parts over time- perhaps a cutaway or reserve handle get lost/dropped from 3k- those things ain't cheap either ($35-75 each from what I have seen)! Pilot chute or BOC might wear out more occasionally while the rest of the rig is fine, also more costs to replace. Some stitching or sewing or patching work may need to be done at some point, somewhere, paid and done by a rigger. Etc. So make sure you are realistic about the other expenses that go along with owning and jumping a rig! "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

Rawr. Lol. You're forgiven. How can you answer a "why" question with one sentence anyways? WHY would you!? "Why?" The great preponderance.. oh why? why? why? lol Oh, and like your answer was any better!? Glad someone likes me posts haha. Thanks? "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

Good call, thanks for that. Yes, now that you mention it that makes sense, it doesn't matter that my flips weren't perfect, it matters that I could re-stabilize quickly and effectively following going a little too far past the 360 degrees! That helps put my example in perspective. Lol on the link "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

Yes, definitely talk with them especially if you won't have coach jumps in your program, and consider asking more experienced jumpers/someone who has a coach rating to accompany you and give some feedback if need be on future jumps or your first few solos if desired/available. But I am glad you feel more confident in talking with them now, that is so important. As for the spin, I see why that would concern you, but just remember that no matter what your position, if you are altitude aware and pull at pull time and land safely, it's all good methinks. I would imagine if you relax (easier said than done) and play around with it, you will figure out how to counter it but listen to the more experienced around here and most importantly -Your Instructors- lol- as a coach told me the other day, though, they can't tell you, example, "put your right foot at a thirty degree angle to your left knee and extend your arm with 50% force" haha, you have to feel things out with your own body, some of it is hard to verbalize beyond the basic concepts, but they can give you the basics and you can get comfortable knowing that you may have to play around a little and it is not unsafe to take the time to do this and improve over time in your little problem areas! A video might help too, if that is available, to see for yourself how your body might be aligned and what you are doing, maybe something minor you would not consider throwing you off a bit, causing this? Have heard something as simple as a student's altimeter hand not being level, or using more force with one's dominant hand, etc. things you wouldn't be aware of without intense awareness and/or observation. But ask your instructors- they know best and will be able to give feedback specific to you, although that fear of losing control of your body position in freefall is certainly understandable! And one cutaway already, you should feel confident in that for sure, that you can handle your EPs!! I am still waiting for mine which is slightly nerve wracking if over-thought so I don't, just practice on occasion, run through in my head/visualize, touch all my handles in order, etc. and know that I have been trained to respond when the situation arises- but you should have an extra boost of confidence there!

You want in on this shit? Aw shit. I guess it's unavoidable now. Ok then, count me in "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

With something intense like skydiving I think people naturally are curious and picture themselves doing such, and verbalize whether or not they would or want to, it always happens. I would say every time it comes up, such as if someone asks me what I did/am doing over the weekend and I tell them I jumped/will go to the dz, if they didn't already know I jumped, or I am discussing jumping for the first time in depth with someone who already knew I jumped and asked about it or something, at some point in the discussion, without my prompting, they usually either say, "I don't think I could or would ever do that," or "I have always wanted to do that/I'd really like to try that/etc." It's usually one or the other, maybe half and half imho. I think it is telling that of the many people who have said they wanted to go or "would" go in general, maybe 10 people have said they would want to actually go in the immediate future with me or made tentative plans etc. and of those, this whole season, two have followed through. Both were so happy they did, it's so cool to help facilitate someone's first jump experience and take pics for them (neither could afford the video even though I recommend it, so glad I spent the extra money on mine!) I have tried the no pressure thing, telling people to just come watch, get a feel for the dz and the sport, jump if they feel like it or book a jump if they decide it is for them but just plan on watching and chilling, but so far no takers. I think some people just don't see a four hour round trip as being that worthwhile of time, or $200+ being that worthwhile for a tandem or AFF-1?? *shrug* I personally think it is more than worth it. Hell, I contemplated doing some sort of birthday thing at the dz, getting my friends to just come out for drinks and food and hang out and watch, and me obviously make a b-day jump, but I started feeling people out and it was clear most just did not have the time/will to drive that far and devote a whole day to a dropzone. I do think the money is a big part of it, even for those who really want to do it, and I think as a female I don't feel that any of my male or female friends have to prove they have "balls" by saying they'd do it lol. But I do agree it is sad that some people who say they have always wanted to do it, or once they think about it that they really want to do it, are held back. Let's face it, most of us could (and did) find some way to come up with a couple hundred extra dollars over the course of an entire season of 4-5 mos or more in the midwest. But, it is just not high on the priority list I guess.. that's ok, it's not for everyone, but I do feel like they are missing out.. "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

Glad it was useful

i'm not trying to get banned lol i know nothing count me OUTTA this shit storm LOL. "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi