skyflower_bloom

So.. first off, I have had two relatively minor injuries in my three months in the sport.. is that a sign of bad luck, a sign I should take up bowling, or simple coincidence? Maybe I am not familiar with sports injuries and sports medicine- in fact, I know I am not. I have brothers who have played all sorts of rough and tumble team sports ad have broken multiple bones my injuries were a sprained ankle on a bad landing into a bit of a ditch on jump #5, and this one, on my 12th jump. The ankle however, after following the advice to refrain from jumping for 6 weeks, is still acting up- hurts if I walk more than say 10 minutes, and yesterday I did two stand-up landing in a row, which I realized was pushing it and paid dearly. I am thinking of PLFing for the rest of the season and/or seeing a physical therapist. But other than last night after 2 stand-ups in a row, day to day activity doesn't hurt it that bad at all, just minor pain/inconvenience,, As for my latest, I had been doing "poised" exits from a power Cessna 182 at Ft A, then switched to SkyKnights/E Troy and had done jumps 6-10 as poised exits from a PAC750 (LOVE that jumpship!) Then, my 11th jump- AFF-6- had me doing a diveout which I did (though 2 seconds after my JM.. oops.. better late than never!? ;) Today I went in to do AFF level 7 (my 12th jump total, if you count my tandem jump in April) and was surprised to see that after having done one diveout, the booklet has me returning to poised exits again for the next few jumps.. any idea wy? I wanna keep working on the diveout, and after today, it feels safer. But anyway, since I started my AFF/AFP with C182s, I don;t think my AFF-I was too concerned, but we did briefly go over the exit since the plane was different since I'd been jumping at that dz. Now, at my first dz (Atmosphair/Ft. Atkinson) I recall, IIRC, that we were taught check-in, horizon, up, down, arch/release. There was no motion mentioned, just the implication that by arching and allowing the relative wind to take us we'd be in the correct position. However, I will also say that my memory is not great and maybe I am wrong. That said, going over the C182 exits with JMs at my first dz verbally and on the ground, and actually doing them, I never attempted to step into a direction.. That said- this may be KEY- all my 182 jumps there were two jumpmaster jumps. The jump I did today out of a C182 was not only a one jumpmaster jump, but we were not in bodily contact- he was not gripping me or maneuvering me as I left. So maybe I was unaware of another dimension or direction of needed motion simply because the prior two jumpmasters holding me in earlier jumps did that motion for us!? This may be partially due to some crossed wires or downsides to switching AFF programs partway through, but I don;t blame anyone- shit happens in this sport, and most sports. I am a bit frustratedthough that I cannot tell if I was lacking info on how to do this safely, if I overlooked important info that I had been told, or if this is so rare and unheard of that it wouldn't even have been considered. My AFF-I from today did say that I was in a little far, which could have contributed. As for my part, I have been kicking my legs subconsciously for a couple seconds on exit/while accelerating, as though to kick myself away fromn the plane or twy to catch onto something.. I am comfortable with the sport and logically realize that the goal is to get nicely arched into that air cushion, but video debriefs show that this is a common issue and causes me to tumble exits, though I do stabilize it quickly and am usually ok from there out. Now, I did recognize that when I got out on the step/grabbed the strut, it was a bit different than what I had jumped prior, but I have no idea if these differences would have played any role whatsoever, except mentally that I noted them. I think for me, one of the biggest things I had in my head was to relax my legs andf NOT move or kick them other than to gently get them properly arched, so if I was supposed to leap off somehow, I guarantee I did not do it cause I was consciously trying NOT to mess up my legs and do the kick thing! This too could be the root of my issue. Now, They almost always run the PAC, and I would like to get better at dive-outs, but I realize limiting my jump ships and/or exit types is not going to get me where I need to be as a safe and competent skydiver.. but the idea of another step exit, after al the PAC ones, poised and dive-out, does scare me now. Also, the damange- m two top front teeth are fractured pretty bad- went to the ER and they put some stuff on to protect it, prescribed painkillers and antibiotics since they said that with the dentin/pulp layers showing I had a high infection risk, and that I needed to set my alarm for 7b or 8 am and call for an emergency dentak appt tomorrow. I may either need the teeth shaved down and a crown/veneer thing out on, or they may not be salvageable and may need entirely constructed teeth there. The ER didn't have an emergency dentist, so hopefully they can get me in on an emergency basis tomorrow.. Trust me, it is NOT pretty and hurts like holy hell. Also 4-5 of my bottom teeth seem to have been knocked, as they are croked, sensitive, and very loose (as is one of the two top front ones- loose that is) I also have quite the fat lip and mouth cuts, but they'll heal fine in due time.. My biggest concern: 1) Learning to do a safe solo exit from a C182, and accounting for variation in type of exit and tye of aircraft; 2) Get my damn mouth fixed asap. and 3) Understand a little bit more about how and why this happened- apparently instructor have seen helmets get bopped, but on mine didn;t realize I had caught my face until I'd landed bloodied. I didn;t really feel the pain in the freefall. and was able to complete my maneuvers (forward and backward rolls plus barrel roll) but I was definitely a bit disoriented trying to figure out what ha happened and how bad it was/is. So.. any tips? Other injuries of this nature? Is this some sorta signh? (personally i have every intent to keeo jumping and get licensed,, but damn that hurt!!! Any feedback or tips for goofd stable ex blue skies, R "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

Interesting side note on that actually.. and I can definitely relate. As a mother, I am pretty much *always* thinking of my son to some extent, somewhere in my brain (well, I am usually with him, but even if I am not my conscious mind is operating in a way that takes him into account). Skydiving is the one time (of course, as long as I know that I have made plans both to ensure his happiness/safety on the ground, and mine in the air) that I am not in mom-mode. As you say, it is that singularity of purpose and consciousness. And I don't think that's bad, and I'm not ashamed to admit that-- even though many people hold double standards for moms and dads, and think moms should sacrifice everything for their kids and think about them every second of every day.. I love my son more than anything, but I fully acknowledge this mental shift, and would be worried if I couldn't shift into that mind-state, actually. I fact, I think I would be a pretty *unsafe* skydiver if I couldn't shut that mom-mode off after making appropriate childcare arrangements pre-jump. The only extent to which it creeps in on a skydive is simply my own need to be thorough and safe, in large part because I know my son needs me alive and well, but other than that I cannot be in parent-mode.. (and actually that mind-state, while for me motivated in large part by motherhood, is also something that hopefully non-parents also have, with any number of strong reasons to be safety-conscious and want to survive the jump in one piece!) Quite honestly there have been a couple times (sometimes kiddo's with grandparents at their house and not at the dz with mama, but when he is at the dz i mean) where i get down onto the ground after jumping and landing and am actually vaguely surprised to see him there.. it's an odd feeling, that moment of shifting back into that mode.. and it's usually a pretty joyful feeling, I'm always thrilled to see him and all after a jump, but it does feel weird to have that split second where it kicks in and your whole mind-state gets jolted back to earth.. I know that sounds weird and I promise am not a crappy mother, but I just thought of that reading your post- from the moment I "transfer responsibility" to whoever is watching my son while I jump and go off with my instructor to prep and gear up and go over dive flow and all, to the seconds after I successfully land and start gathering up the canopy and lines and all, I have to completely put my role as someone's mother out of my head in the immediate sense (again, still taking into account the safety aspect and the fact that it is for a very temporary and distinct reason and time period). "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

Morning all.. sorry for neglecting you here.. been outta town for a few weeks.. Coffee Bry? I know I sure need the caffeine, long drive to the DZ coming up here and couldn't sleep last night (yes, I was practicing dance moves at 2 am, and no i was not drunk.. don't ask LOL) How have you been? Things ok with your lady's health now?? Rest of ya'll?? Hope life is well.. "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

I skydive because I enjoy the intensity of both the mental and physical preparation and progression involved, because it's a chellenge, because it allows me to be completely in the moment.. I enjoy pushing boundaries and doing things that are out of the ordinary; I've never been one to take the typical paths in life. I skydive because I would rather take some risks (yes risk is relative, not planning to take any crazy stupid risks, though it's been done in my past) than to live in fear, and because as a student and a full time mama, with all the demands of the world and society we live in, it is key for me to have something that is all mine, that brings me joy and that pushes me to new heights and continual improvement within myself. It gives me something to look forward to. Also, I love the camraderie and social atmosphere of connecting with others in the sport, who may or may not have similar motives, but I do feel there is overlap. Interestingly enough, I always knew I would want to progress and get my license, before having ever jumped. My tandem was simply done because it was required to get on with the real deal. I like the continuity of knowing jumping will always be there, that I will continue to improve, and that this is a sport I can pursue throughout my life. I guess I also like pushing past my personal fears and limits -within reason- and overcoming that voice in your head that tells you you're insane and better not get out that door.. lol.. I am all about intention, I like training my mind for positivity, and making educated decisions to trust in my gear, self, instructors, and just do it! And it is pretty entertaining when people think you are crazy, but on the other hand, I really don't want people to think I am crazy lol, so I do often try to educate people on the realities of skydiving and have helped a couple people get over that obstacle and make their first jump.. that is an awesome feeling! "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

Wow! Nice job!! It must be a great feeling to know that you can handle that situation, and have gotten that first one out of the way :) Well done!! I'm a newb too, no cutaways yet, had a wrapped bridle and first line twists, on jumps 2 and 7, so I figure I'm slowly working up to it ;) just kidding.. but it reassures me to read about students getting early cutaways acomplished, cause you never know when it's coming, could be jump 5 or jump 500! Anywho, way to go getting right back up there as well. Always good to read about other student jumpers getting those "firsts" and doing what needs to be done! Like you said, not something you *want* to happen, but something that does happen and is good to know you know how to deal with it.. blue skies!! peace, robyn "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

Had been jumping at Atmosphair but needed to find a DZ with more weekday availability to get through my AFF due to my schedule and family. Planning to take advantage of both DZs one I get the AFF program tackled, so it's nice to know now that I have two great options close by. Went out to East Troy on a weekday afternoon with my toddler and log book in tow, with the intent just to check it out and ask about the option of AFF jumps after having jumped with another program. I was told that not only could I transfer over to their AFF progression, but that if I wanted to get jumping that day I could (and hell yes, I wanted to jump, after near 6 weeks on the ground :) Sasha at the front desk/manifest was awesome on the phone with directions and in person, in helping me get my jumps figured out, talking with the other staff about my situation, and helping out with the kiddo, which was certainly above and beyond her responsibilities/duties. She has also gone out of her way to accommodate my scheduling needs and keep me posted on getting the jumps that I need in asap, and I'll be going back out tomorrow. My instructors for the two jumps I made were Tom and Mur, both were a lot of fun, positive, passionate about skydiving, and very thorough. The AFF program is a bit different, so we went through my log book and what I'd done prior, and decided to go back one level since the program includes some 180 turns and forward motion which I'd not yet done. So I did their program's AFF-2, passed that, and I wound up making the sunset load as well for a second jump that day. The debriefing was extremely thorough and both instructors had helmet cams, which was really useful for me to see exactly what my body position was like. The PAC aircraft is awesome!! The AFF program at SkyKnights introduces a few more maneuvers a bit earlier than the other program I started, but also has less associated paperwork- it seems they don't have you plan out the spot and calculate the winds and all that like the other program I was doing, which I think is a helpful thing to have students do, but on the other hand, I felt that the written handbook and the pre-jump prep was thorough enough that I did not feel that I suffered from any lack of training, and it was definitely a smooth transition, both to a new dz, and back into jumping after an ankle injury. As an AFF student, I cannot take advantage of this yet, but it appears they also organize a lot of cool events, like a jump for diabetes recently, helicopter jumps, and coaching days and workshops and such.. looking forward to taking advantage of this down the line. I definitely love jumping at Ft Atkinson, which I still consider my "home" dz, because of the kid friendly set-up and close knit community- SkyKnights is a bit bigger, and has less kids present at least when I went; however, I still would describe it as extremely family friendly, if not family 'centered.' There are dogs there that are apparently not too kid friendly, which is a bit concerning, but the owner seems good about keeping them controlled.. I also love going to Ft. A and knowing everyone, but it seems that over time one would get that at SkyKnights to some extent as well- it is a bit bigger, but not a big dz to the point of feeling overwhelmed or lost in the crowd, though I have not yet seen it on weekends. However, I definitely did not interat much with people outside of the manifest and AFF-Is, so you may need to take a bit more initiative at SkyKnights in talking and getting connected with other jumpers. That said, the ability of a slightly bigger dropzone/club like SkyKnights to accommodate my schedule this summer and offer more days to jump is important to me right now and worth a slight increase in size/number of people and slightly more effort to get to know and talk with people over time, plus I will mostly be there weekdays anyway, so not too worried about the weekend rush or things getting too chaotic or crowded. Overall I was really happy with everyone who helped me with the smooth transition and welcomed me, and cannot wait to go back tomorrow! I'd highly recommend the program for AFF based on my experience so far, especially if you need to jump weekdays. That said, if you are a weekend only jumper due to work/school stuff, Atmosphair might be the better bet since it is a bit smaller- however, they are a but understaffed this season so maybe it's a toss up as to weekend availability.. As for the programs, I'd say AFF jumps at Atmosphair are a bit more self-led and involve more networking with fellow AFFers to plan for the jump, whereas (so far) SkyKnights seems to be rooted more in verbal dialogue and physical practice with the actual AFF-Is. I am comfortable with both approaches; for others, it may be a personal preference thing. I do enjoy the camraderie with other AFF students at Atmosphair but that may be comparing apples to oranges since I don't have other AFF students from a shared FJC, not having taken it at SkyKnights.. thus I also can't speak to type or quality of FJC training at SkyKnights/East Troy, obviously. For experienced jumpers, I would definitely recommend making a visit to SkyKnights and jumping the PAC! Thanks Sasha, Tom, and Mary for getting me in the air and welcoming my little one and for making the transition smooth; looking forward to tomorrow!

Mornin' Bry and all!! Been awhile. How are things? Well, I got back up in the skies today after nearly 6 weeks on the ground.. my first time jumping out of a PAC instead of a Cessna, pretty cool.. and my first time jumping twice in one day.. and my first time landing/flying the canopy without radio input (yep I think I owe beer lol) Can't believe how long it took my ankle to heal though.. still not 100%.. hope everyone is well! :) I'm a happy camper now that I'm back to jumping.. Blue skies! "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

thanks for the replies all!! well it has been about 5 1/2 weeks and my ankle still hurts if i walk on it for a ways, but it's otherwise pretty good, so i decided to get back to jumping today, and to just be careful on landing and do plf on purpose. i do think my past landings were much more of the "just topple over" aka "wipe out" landings you refer to, rather than legit plfs, so on my 2 jumps today i made quite sure to practice plfs first and then intentionally do plfs (actual plfs!) when landing each time. both were soft, likely could have stayed standing, but with the ankle right at the edge of healing up completely i didn't even want to try it.. didn't even feel the landings in terms of any ankle pain, so i think i am good to go.. i am being much more aware of my leg/feet position when coming in, and i discussed landings with two instructors as well as reading over responses on here.. apparently when i got injured, i was on the edge of the field so it wasn't even, but i also apparently had my legs out and reached in a way that absorbed all the force on my ankle(s) without properly spreading its absorption i.e. the force just hit my ankle and i fell down, i guess he said my legs were straighter and more out to the side? i think i was in a weird mindset being a bit anxious being closer to the runway than usual, and also changing my mindset with the intent to stand up whih i had never really thought through before, i'd always thought only to "prepare to plf." a combination of factors, as most any accident or incident is, however minor, but i have come to my own conclusion that stand-up landings are not a huge priority to me right now, after that incident, and they'll come in time and as my ankle finishes healing up. anyway, yeah, for now i am all about the plf, though i do think i will be able to gauge stand-ups better- for now i just want to be careful until my ankle is 100%. thanks again for all the feedback. i did do my first landing today without any radio assistance, which was cool.. i actually flared at the right time, which i didn't consciously think i could do before, but i guess it is one of those things that your brain picks up on even if you cannot enunciate in words when/how you are doing it, cause apparently i did it perfectly.. so that is a good thing.. and the two landings i had today were soft stand-up into good form plfs, so i feel more confident in landings now, and will work on standing them up once my ankle is back to 100% per discussion with my instructors and see how i feel.. one of my instructors said that part of it is simply that plf was designed for rounds so there is no perfect solution with the ram-airs or how to teach a student for sure how to respond to any given landing other than the position coming in.. but it's all good and a learning experience.. i have two more jumping days planned this week to make up for that damn ankle keeping me on the ground for so long lol.. so maybe something good did come out of this, since i feel more aware on landing and am motivated to get those jumps in and make up for lost time :) thanks again, blue skies!! "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

Thanks so much all.. I am an overthinker in general, so I definitely need to not TRY so much.. SIGNALS: I also am getting specific hand signals, yes.. with legs these have varied, at 2nd jump I got a lot of push legs down ("peace sign") signal, then 3rd jump I had much more leg awareness and pushed down, almost too much, so then they taught me the sign for "bend knees/legs UP" a bit more, so then I think I got stuck there, after trying so hard to NOT let the wind push me legs UP too much, now they are too flat/down. But obviously legs follow pelvis, so if I can get my hips and torso arch right, I think the legs would follow more easily perhaps. No leg signals past few jumps though. So yeah- The signals I have been getting most on my past couple jumps are the "thumb down" (hips down) and the arch and relax signals. This jump, I also got a shake on exit (arch/relax-whole body), and this one is the jump on which I had no arch to speak of.. so I do think I was over-thinking the possibility of being released, and since the prior jump I had gone unstable and corrected a few times maybe I was nervous because I sorta set up the mental self-fulfilling prophecy that my stability and arch were worsening and not improving? It did shake my confidence last weekend when I felt myself going unstable those few times, when up until then I hadn't had that experience.. so I was worried what this weekend would bring, as far as if that was a one time thing or if it would worsen, and maybe psyched myself out.. Also I think psychologically (yes I am psychoanalyzing this lol) it messes with me a wee bit because thumbs down is so ingrained as the opposite of thumbs up/good (bad) that I don't automatically associate it with my pelvis, but that is the main signal I have been needing/getting the past 2 jumps, moreso on this last one. Then to further complicate it, a thumb up actually does mean doing good (in the air) or good luck/let's do it in the plane prior to door/exit.. so it seems weird that they aren't opposite signals. I haven't gotten the chin/head up signal, but found myself having to remind myself to maintain head up and look at the horizon, where prior I had a jump or two where it came more naturally.. I think I am just starting to overthink again and stress about adding new things in.. KNEES/"POTATO CHIPPING" An instructor showed me on the ground what my position had been like in the air this last jump.. no issue, as someone mentioned, with me knees being too close or far, so not sure if what I am doing is "potato chipping" or not, I haven't been able to find a definition of that, but it just reminds my of rigidity so I assumed a not-good arch or rigid position does that? Anyhow, my knees are fine, but the biggest problem is the hips pelvis have been flat or even up, so lots of the thumb down signal. TUNNEL I'm glad to hear some people say the tunnel was a useful tool, and thanks for the tips for practicing on the ground too! Looking forward to it-- just hoping my ankle will be ok but I can't imagine it would be an issue in nearly 3 weeks' time in a tunnel.. thanks again, blue skies! :) robyn "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

Haha NICE!! Thanks for that.. I think though if I move to Portland you may have just thinned out my wallet quite a bit lol.. "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

So- it's a long long post. For those who don't want the relevant background info or breakdown of past jumps' landings and instructions, basically, I had a hard/bad landing today and got a badly sprained ankle- definitely could have been much worse. I did not PLF with proper technique, not really at all I don't believe.. unsure if I should have or if it would have done anything but I suppose wondering now won't change anything- just might give me/others perspective for the future. My ankle hit first and took most of the force and no other injuries. Those who saw said they did not notice anything unusual or concerning about the landing until I went down; that it seemed a decent final approach and flare, and didn't look odd. We/they are postulating that what may have happened is that given the weird winds this weekend, there could have been a low gust or turbulence which caused me to go down differently or "threw me" somehow; that I just twisted it a weird way on a harder but normal landing, and/or that I had landed nearer the perimeter of the landing area where it is not as level so I might have caught that foot/ankle in an uneven area of ground. I also vaguely don't remember the full flare after neck, but I am not implying or saying that I was not radio'ed to flare in time, nor that I was radio'ed and didn't respond in time; I had always heard that most landing injuries related to flare timing were from too early/high flares anyways, so I don't know what that would do even if it were accurate or relevant, but my memory is a bit hazy, and as stated, the observers, while obviously not aware I was going to get injured thus not watching that closely, did say that it seemed a normal approach and landing- I just may have blanked in my memory the final/full flare. Anyways, I am looking for some feedback on AFF student landings (of course, with the requisite, I plan to talk more with my instructors about it, but they have been great and have been in contact to make sure I got it checked and that all us well). How to know when PLF should be used, if students ever just make it a point to PLF no matter what or at what level do you get a better feel for it, along with when to flare, etc. which I guess ties into radio use which I know is covered and I have searched and read some threads that cross into this topic.. I guess I'd like some input generally but also specifically on my situation.. --------------------------------------------- Now long version/landing history; I've done a tandem and 4 AFF levels so far. Tandem is "AFF-1" (or counts as such) in the program I am doing, as I notified the tandem instructor (also one of my AFF-Is) that I wanted it to be a learning tandem to help prepare me for the AFF course and jumps, so it was more than just a ride (though I think in their program any one tandem counts towards the progression, since they want you to have the experience of a tandem prior to the AFF). So- I did "AFF-2" (first AFF style jump) immediately following the full day first jump course, with good arch and very soft landing, could have stood it up (well, momentarily did stand it up) then just sorta plopped over on the ground and laughed for a bit cause it was fun and the first time you land a parachute yourself (with some radio help of course) is a nice feeling. Also I was unsure if I should be trying at all to stand up landing or if it was safer to just go over anyway since it was my first time.. yeah I realize that wouldn't have made a difference if I had actually been coming in for a rough landing, and what I did, by standing up at first anyways, made going over the path of least resistance lol but surely didn't change the outcome in any way.. but I didn't know what the protocol was or if students were expected to PLF (yes, I have since clarified this, and should have done so sooner, still need to get more info on this for me to feel confident when I return but anyway)- I just sorta told myself at the time that it's better to be prepared to PLF and have it be an unnecessary PLF than to not do it when needed. (Now note, I have never ACTUALLY done a PLF for real on landing; I have simply been of the mindset and body position to be prepared, and done weird stand then fall type soft landings- yeah I know flame away lol, but that's what I had been doing) I am now beginning to learn the more nuanced thinking behind PLF and landing techniques, but remember, this is/was me thinking very early in my progression, and I am still very early. I just felt I should always be ready to PLF since I was not confident at that point that I would know if or when it would be needed (though I have radios on, so that would potentially help, maybe I just need to trust that or ask what that protocol is, but it seems that, as I also understand I am responsible for my own safety, and the fast nature of the landing/PLF, that I would need to know to initiate it and do it right.. thus my thinking on this and the impression I sort of got when we went over the technique, that's it's better to be ready to PLF than not to and wish you had??) So- second AFF-style jump for me ("AFF-3" in my progressions' terminology) I also potentially could have stood it up/run it out, very soft, but was again thinking that I might have to PLF and basically was going with the whole knees together but not locked, getting ready to PLF if needed.. so stood up, might have taken a step or two, then toppled over again softly. Then AFF-3, the second time (repeat to focus on awareness at exit and at pull, which I did better that jump- so this was my fourth jump total, if you count a tandem) It was the hardest landing I have had yet; I noted this in my log book. Now, not hard in any way which would have hurt me or needed a PLF, from my own experience and asking around; just slightly but noticeably harder than any of my prior landings to that point. My feet touched first but I just went down without trying to stand/run or without being able to, unsure which. I believe when the radio said "neck" I brought the toggles more down to chest level, but an instructor said that probably would not have made a difference; it was more likely that they were lower winds that I was penetrating; I would have had to run it out due to the forward motion if I'd tried to stand it up, is what I am gathering there. *Finally, yesterday, prepping for AFF-4 (release dive, my 5th jump total) I had a discussion with a staff member (I believe he is a coach but not an AFF-I; my DZ encourages us to seek info from coaches, other students, etc. before asking any questions of our AFF-Is; sort of a self-styled learning approach and then once that is all done you go to find your AFF-Is, go over the jump and any questions remaining, and final prep. So he told me that it was not their intent to imply that all students should always be PLFing, and most landings are quite soft, in my experience and observation. I have also been observing other students the past few weekends, and while, as a mama and student, I have not done as many AFF levels as most of the students in my FJC, I have had the benefits of learning from them and watching them progress.. so watching others, I noticed that most of the other AFF students from my FJC generally do stand up or run out their landings. I still am not 100% confident in the PLF technique (it really doesn't come naturally) nor my ability to recognize when one is needed, but it seems with the radios, size of canopies, etc. that most landings are pretty straightforward as a student. We (me and the coach/staffer) talked about how in higher wind/less penetration, that would be more likely a need for PLF because obviously coming straight down with little forward motion means that you have to balance out how your body absorbs that force, which makes sense to me. So I was thinking that I would be more aware of landings and run them out/stand when possible and keep my balance, and be aware of penetration/wind/etc. as an indicator of when a PLF might be needed. I also practiced my PLFs again yesterday prior to jumping. Due to the weird winds and such we had a bit of an odd pattern and did some "crabbing" along the river, some practice flares under canopy, etc. but canopy flight was fine, and upon final approach into the wind, radio had me do some braking/stalling which I wasn't used to, but I think I was coming in too fast and needed to lose altitude, and then approaching, and I remember neck, and then next memory I have is my foot hitting and then falling onto the ground and trying to get up and couldn't and they said wave if you're okay and i put my arm up and they came over and took my shoe off and such and dealt with it, iced it, etc. and advised me that it could be either a sprain or a fracture and that i should get an x-ray that day or today to be sure. One of the coaches/staffers is a sports medicine practitioner, so she iced and bandaged it and asked me some questions and such. They were great about it and Alex called me today to check in and all.. I just have this vague memory of feeling panicky, like, I am too close to the ground, shouldn't I be fully flared? So I am trying to figure out if I flared fully, or if I was told to, or if the radio failed (but we have TWO in case one does fail!?), or the operator was talking to someone else and missed me (doubtful, they are all highly skilled at talking students down and there's not much time between neck and full flare) or if I somehow didn't pick up on them telling me to flare and didn't do it on my own (which would also be weird because I know you have to flare/brake to land, and remember the panicky fleeting feeling of, I am too close why am i not flared/braking, yk? But everyone who watched the jump and landing, talked me down etc. seemed to think it was nothing I did wrong or anyone else did, it was just the weird winds and also there was a slight uneven area there according to one of the AFF instructors who came to where I landed to help me out, so both factors or one or the other--gust of wind low to the ground could have put me at an angle, and/or the ground if uneven could have easily caught and twisted one foot before the other foot and my body came down on top.. well now I just got a FB message from another AFFer/friend who said he saw me land and that about 2 feet from the ground I was not flared.. so now I am second guessing the whole thing.. not in a blame way at all, just trying to make sure it doesn't happen again! I know that regardless I need to get comfortable enough with landings to know how to make relevant decisions, trust myself to flare (even if the radio failed or my mind blanked and didn't hear "flare" on the radio or whatever.. eventually I won't have a radio!) so maybe I need to work on the depth perception and landing.. I definitely want to get a canopy course and landing work in with a bunch of hop n pops at some point after AFF.. unfortunately now I am grounded for 6 weeks-- last time I jumped after an only 4 week hiatus (spring weather- always seems to be problematic on weekends and gorgeous all week, murphy's law damn him lol) but i got really nervous, i don't want that awful fear again, but i dealt with it so just gotta think positive.. and i know the tunnel training will hopefully give me some confidence even being away from jumping for awhile, and especially with my arch (see other thread, whole 'nother issue LOL) --btw, people think i'll be okay for tunnel training 15 minutes on june 4th, nearly 3 weeks from the injury?? i sure hope so.. seems like without an actual landing to concern myself with it should be okay, but will of course make sure with the coach and maybe with a doctor that it's alright, i don't want to further delay my return to jumping by overdoing it, but in some ways it seems it would be less strenuous on my bum foot/ankle than walking on it with a 25 lb toddler on my hip LOL.. Anyways, yeah- any input appreciated on AFF student landings, tips for landing, PLF, etc. based on my history or in general.. And how do you know when you want to do a PLF- would this case have helped if I had PLFed? As a recent article on here and plenty of posters point out, it just doesn't come very naturally- is it something I should practice more along with arch (on the ground) or is that a waste? Thanks for any feedback. Finally, has anyone injured (sprain/strain/not a break) an ankle or something and had ongoing problems with jumping? Someone (whuffo, but he does coach other sports) said that once something's been injured like a bad sprain it is mire susceptible to other sprains or other injuries- could there be any truth to that? Sorry so long! Well, sorta sorry. I warned you. Can always answer the top ones or skim it.. "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

My past two jumps have not been great for stability and position. I had a great arch down according to my instructors on my early few jumps, and then somehow I lost it, as my 4th jump last weekend, I was rigid and could feel myself tense up and lose stability a few times, when I would try to move my left hand and use my right hand to touch my handle. Then yesterday, on my 5th jump, I didn't have that feeling of being stable and then going unstable momentarily and then back again, as on my 4th; I actually just didn't feel stable at all, the whole time, it just felt off. My instructor confirmed that my body position was not good the whole time (this was the trial release jump but I was never in good enough arch to be released). I am assuming a lot of it is psychological somehow, most of this sport is :) But I can't physically FEEL a big difference that I can tell between how my body was when I was told I had a good arch to when it was nonexistent which irritates me (not irritated at anyone, just at myself that I couldn't feel it more obviously or correct for it). I do have tunnel time scheduled in early June, and due to a minor injury won't be able to jump again before- do you think this will help me get my find my lost arch? ;) My instructor also advised me to visualize and practice it on the ground as much as possible which I have been doing today and plan to continue.. anyone know what could cause a student to naturally have a good arch then lose it, or have other training tips or techniques I can use to help me get the proper arch back?? I am tall (5'9" or a bit taller) and slender (130 lb) with an athletic body, so I guess this is what they call "potato chipping?" My instructor says that my pelvis was flat to reverse of arch yesterday- not good. It's just hard to tell in the air I guess- on the ground you don't have time limits and you can feel your pelvis pushing into the ground.. I know I need to build muscle memory, and relax, but am just a bit frustrated and confused that I thought I had the basic arch down and now I lost it Any ideas? Thanks so much in advance, blue skies all!! "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

SWEET! "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

Thanks for taking the time to give input :) I know that I want to finish my degree, so my main priority is interviewing at the university and looking into the family options- natural childbirth (I do doula work) community, other families and kids for playdates, school options for the kiddo, etc.. didn't meant to imply that I would decide where to live with a dropzone as the #1 lol.. Actually I would LOVE to raise my family on skydiving income, but as a single mama and student doesn't seem feasible atm, so I'll stick with what I feel is my calling for now, work with kids and families, and the sky will be there as a sport and discipline that I am growing to love :) Of course the DZs out there, the vibe, etc., it does have an impact in that I want to get a feel for them before making a potential move either way to know what to expect, and since I am working towards becoming a licensed skydiver and am pretty certain this will be part of my life wherever I am.. that said, it's a good point that visiting once may not give a great feel for what it is like to jump there, all the different people and aspects, etc. If I move to Portland, the tunnel is still 10-11 hours away, so I don't think I could make it there other than this vacation to train if I live in Pdx, so I don't think it will be part of my training no matter where I am.. If I do move, which is something I've been considering for years, long before I started jumping, there will be many factors involved before skydiving.. it's a long saga lol, won't go into it, but there are some very strong factors both for and against a move. I am hoping that this trip and my intuition and the school thing will give me more guidance, as it's a bit of a tie here now :) But, I do want to get some training in on this trip and do some exploring of other DZs :) That said, I biffed a landing and sprained an ankle yesterday, and will be grounded for 6 weeks anyway now, so the tunnel time, if I am up to it come June, will be even more important since I won't be jumping for a bit. Thanks again for the input, and I will let you all know how it goes! I may not have much net access on the trip but being grounded for the next ten days I am sure I'll get into some shenanigans on here.. but I'll try to be good hehe. Any other suggestions for my trip are welcome, definitely will stop out to Lodi too, might as well if it's that close!! Oh and PP- I know this post is getting long lol, but I have been stiffening up my past couple jumps-- which SUCKS, because I had good relaxed arch my first few, and just lately have I started to stiffen.. that's why I am hoping now more than ever tunnel could help.. but I think a lot is psychological- I think I'll start another thread, but if you have any insight on that, feel free to PM or post in the other thread :) Thanks!! Blue Skies, stay safe all!! robyn "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

well jesus my camera cannot even pick up on the jumpers or plane until parachutes open at 3-5k.. so I thought that was pretty impressive, depending on altitude.. yeah it was a bit blurry, but my camera couldn't have captured anything close.. blue skies :) robyn "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

Thanks so much- I can use GPS, but any vague idea driving from Portland OR to SF Bay area, how much of a detour Lodi would be? Would love to check it out, thanks for the tip!! Yes, I received a recommendation for a tunnel coach with skydiving experience via PM and have been talking with TJ/Norcal Alliance- anyone else have experience with him? Seems like I will be doing a 15 minute tunnel session, after peak hours since he can get in easier and cheaper at/after 11 pm.. looking forward to it! If I can get confident in stability and position in the tunnel, I think in the long run it would save me money not having to repeat levels etc. My first few jumps I was pretty stable, but the last jump I was not arched enough and lost momentary stability a few times.. I am tall and thin so my instructor said I got too rigid and needed to put my hips down and legs up a little more and arch more.. I think between my logbook and the instructor's experience with jumping and tunnel training, it will be beneficial, but will be talking to my home DZ instructors tomorrow to get their insights on what would be most useful for me.. if weather cooperates I am also hoping to get AFF-4 done tomorrow, wish me luck :) Thanks everyone for the suggestions, and I can't wait to check out the tunnel and the other DZs out west!! :) peace and blue skies, robyn "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

Mornin' Bry and all!!

LOL I love my home DZ/instructors... just contemplating a move westward in the next year, would be around the time I get my A, and would want to know my skydiving options whether or not I actually jump out there this time 'round (which I am at this point thinking not unless I can either talk my friends into doing a tandem LOL or am on solo by that point and it falls into place but likely as you say not even then since I want to put my focus into getting to know the procedures, geography, etc. of the DZ I'll be jumping at all season and have learned the basics at.. so that's sorta where I am at now) Mostly, I think I just want to get a feel for the vibe, as if I were to choose to move, that would be a factor, and tunnel time appeals both as a training tool for me, an alternate when I can't get any real jumps in, and a novel experience since there is no tunnel even close to my current city. I will definitely talk to my instructors about this intention and see what pointers they can give me. I'm still conflicted somewhat, but since this will be my only shot at tunnel training this year (geographically) unless I move sooner than I think logistically possible, I want to try it, and think that while the $ spent could be spent on a jump, if it helps me having to repeat levels it would potentially save money? Either way I'm just psyched to try it lol. I don't think I need a ton of work on the basics, each time I've jumped I have had several specific things to work on and have been able to work on them and improve each time, so I don't think I suck TOO bad haha, but last jump I felt less stable, not completely unstable, but got too rigid and would go a little unstable and then recover doing the practice touches, which hadn't happened before (instability of arch) so I was thinking along the lines specifically that tunnel work could help me with proper arch and relaxation without the time pressure/general pressure of plummeting towards the earth But will definitely talk to my AFF-Is and DZO/also one of my AFF-Is. Thanks again for the reply. Just saw that (well, I saw it before, but it just registered fully lol, maybe I'm having sensory overload or something, takes awhile for things to register (just finished finals week haha) and wanted to respond in defense of not hating my instructors ROFL. Haven't had an instructor I had real issues with yet, though skydiving as a sport can definitely deal out a swift kick in the arse lol, and the instructors do have to keep me on my toes sometimes haha, everyone has their own style, but pretty much the instructors and other people at my home DZ are a main reason why I chose to start (and stay) here for AFF and A, with several local-ish options being available and well recommended.

Thanks for the replies. Yeah, I am thinking unless I get to solo status next 2 weekends (unlikely given weather here in the spring) I won't try to do an AFF elsewhere. That said, I do want to check out the DZs, meet people, etc. as one of my motives for my two week trip is that I am considering an eventual move out to Portland area.. so there is good reason to get a feel for the DZs. I am also making a few day detour over to Cali and will be going into the tunnel at iFly SF I believe.. will talk to my instructors and weigh their input but I would love the experience.. Thanks again, anyone else with other info on Portland, OR area DZ options, culture, etc. would be appreciated, and thanks again for the replies to the PPs! Blue Skies!! Robyn "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

Not sure if this one ever gets old, but check out the marijuana OD 911 call, I think someone (re)posted it up recently here in bonfire? where the cop and his wife thought they were OD'ing on special brownies. Gets me every time And coffee your way too-- though it's 10 pm here, so depending on your time zone may need to save it for the next mornin'

So-- I'll be making a trip westward from WI this spring/summer (though logically I know I should wait until it snows here and then go elsewhere to skydive lol)... but the fact is, I will be in Portland OR (Multnomah) from the 25th of May through June 8th (2 weeks). I am thinking of driving to spend a few days with a friend and his family in San Fran so would want to get into the tunnel out there if I do that for sure to work on basic awareness of body position and stability for AFF.. but the majority of the two week trip will be in Portland OR. Just wondering if anyone had feedback or would be willing to recommend DZs in the pdx area, show me around, give me advice, etc. BTW I am AFF-3, (did it once, all good except not stable/aware at pull, though I did pull fine if a bit early) so definitely not entirely ready for release so will repeat AFF-3 again tomorrow and maybe/hopefully get AFF-4 in tomorrow too. I hope to be anywhere from AFF-4 to AFF-9/solo status by the time I make it out in three weeks.. given the spring weather here (wind and rain) I am thinking more towards the former than the latter though who knows.. so unsure if I even could, or should, try to jump at an AFF status at a new DZ, but either way, I'd love to meet others and check out the local DZ(s) since I am considering a move to Portland and that would be an important aspect to consider.. Thanks in advance for any advice!! Or just email/pm me :) blue skies! peace, robyn "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

You definitely want to find the sweet spot of "kind of drunk, but not tooooo drunk." Yuppers, agreed.. on both sides (or all sides, if this encounter is to involve more than a twosome lol, guess I gotta keep it open-minded).. it's called "tippssy" (pronounced with a slight slur, lol) All faculties intact but slightly enhanced and moderately disinhibited.. lol. And this is coming from someone who is pretty sure she hasn't had more than a few sips of beer or wine, or any sex, in a few good years... now that I think about it, that's kinda sad LOL.. now... when do we get details from the night in question?? "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

I am so very proud of you! Look at the length of your post.. nice and short .. Haha...ya..apparently someone hit the ol' bottle a bit too much last night. LOL... plead the 5th as to what's up in my corner of the world.. But sleep is good, right? And thanks for your acknowledgment of my efforts lol. I haven't been too awful lately have I?

Good morning! (well, afternoon) Hope all is well! I'm going back to bed lol. "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi

lol true enough... if only i could just be dreaming or skydiving or frolicking with my kiddo at all times.. seems realer that the daily grind to me.. why exactly is it that we must do this whole work/school shenanigan thing?? money?? so confused.. i am pretty sure at this point i'm just enrolled in school to avoid the other alternate (work) and to make it appear as though i am a productive citizen LOL.. we'll see. it's all an illusion.. a dream within a dream within a dream... Everything ok healthwise bry? Still at the hospital or all good?? So f'ing glad to have finally gotten my jump and now i am all amped to do it again next weekend, hopefully with less freaking out involved though ;) but it was 110% worth it, no regrets (there would however have been regrets if I got in the car and sped home... so i guess i made the right call by getting over it and jumping) Hope everyone is well... blue skies.. "You must be the change you wish to see in the world." Gandhi