Zoltan

Yes, being cut is a hard part of bigways. Luckily i've never been cut form any bigger ways. It does not mean that i've never made mistakes. I made, a made a lot. But the jump organizers somehow never said that it was dangerous to the rest of the group nor blocking the performance of the group. But I've seen people being cut and I understood their feelings. Being axed out is not a good feeling and on every bigger way jump I feel a bit stressed by the feeling of "what if i screw up". Well, in the pedagogical psychology there is a concept of stress level. Proper amount of stress supports the performance and beyond this level the stress blocks the performance. That is why students should fear a bit the about exams or tests, but if the teacher/trainer puts more stress on students then the necessary, then comes the problem. Brain lock and stupid mistakes. So the idea of axing folks out of big ways is good. It gives the feed back and shows that there is no perfect performance. The only thing you can do about it is to control your stress level and to gain self confidence. z

yes it does :) the worst brain lock i have ever had was after a training 4way jump.. i was just racking and tracking and tracking... ohhh yes it was the pull_time :) and once i had a packing job brain lock :) you know..."only human" :) z

:) i think we can go down to the solo hip-hop jumps and we will experience brain-locks :) z

Well :) i have seen folks with locked brain in a 2 points 20 way dive... And yeah, dirt dive is cool, nothing is as sexy as RW suit. z

side slide and other moves... put a paper sheet on a table and lift any two neighboring corners and imagine that the sheet is your body in a freefall... you will understand where the sheet (your body) will move :) it is easy it is all about aerodynamics.

I would not suggest to use any kind of grip like this. It might help you on exit on some occasion, but i am not convinced that you need any extra grip there. main rule in skydiving that everything what is unnecessary might cause trouble, so if you do not use something, then you do not need it... stay safe and find other solution instead of installing non standard stuff on your rig. z

yep, smart comments above mine :) i would like to say few additional but not technical things: 1. do not smoke during training jump. Nicotine predicts the blood to carry proper amount of oxygen to your brain 2. drink before the jump, your body needs water in order to act fast and precise 3. Do not eat too much :) your brain needs the blood not your stomach, but eat enough to support your brain with energy. 4. rest and enjoy the life before the jump, stress makes no good but brain lock 5. No arguing with team mates before jump, love your team it gives a lot energy to concentrate 6. In the plane do proper mental training with thinking the sequence very slow and very fast. 7. Do not train over your brain. and the last and the worst :) knowing the formations by heart, knowing where you are knowing also the place of the other 3 is maybe the best against beginner's_4way_brainlock. z

yes it is possible to practice formation skydive alone.. but i think it is prety useless to pay for your solo jumpticet :) most of the RW is about looking, knowing and presenting. All these three you can practice with mental training. Looking and presenting you can practice by watching a lot jump video and of course you can learn the 4way/8way pictures. These all are essential if you want to be a good FS jumper. What you do up there is the implementation the real work you will do onthe ground :)

Do: jump Don't: stay home the rest is simple :) z

LET Aircraft Manufacturing Company was founded in 1936 as Avia Aviation Works of Skoda Works Group. I comapny with a great history. Lately LET aircraft manufacturing company has been developing and manufacturing mostly training gliders. In 1998 LET was sold to U.S. Ayres Corp, and in 2000, two years later, this company declared Let-Ayres bankrupt. Currently LET works under LZ Aeronautical Industries trademark. The factory is engaged mostly in developing, manufacturing, assembling, servicing and repairing L-410, L-610 and L-23 aircraft, Super Blanik and L 33 Sylo gliders. performance specifications: Maximum passengers capacity : 19 passengers Crew: 2 people Empty aircraft weight: 3,985 kg (8,785 lbs) Maximum takeoff weight: 6,400 kg (14,110 lbs) Maximum landing weight: 6,200 kg(13,668 lbs) Maximum fuel weight: 1,300 kg (2,866 lbs) Maximum payload weight: 1,615 kg (3,560 lbs) Maximum cruising speed 380 km/h (236 m/h) Maximum climbing speed: with one engine 1.8 m/s, with two engines working 7.2 m/s Flying range with maximum payload (without tip tanks, en-route fuel reserve for 45 minutes): 485 km Flying range with maximum fuel reserve (en-route fuel reserve for 30 minutes): 1540 km Takeoff distance up to 10.7 m (?=0, ISA): 685 m Landing distance down from 9 m (?=0, ISA): 480 m Required runway length (?=0, ISA): 800(+100)m L-410 aircraft dimensions: Length 14,42 m Height 5,83 m Wingspan 19,98 m Wing area 35,18 m2 Wheel track 3,65 m Wheel base 3,67 m Passenger cabin volume 17,9 m3 z

Jep Cop :) and the sexiest plane and coolest folks. Europe rules, Finland rules, Malmi rules, SLK rules and yeah it i still a club and it is still ours :) z

FINLAND, Helsinki-Malmi 1960 :)

Older design PD canopy prices are very low nowdays both Sabre and Stiletto. Sabre2 is hot stuff and many other manufacturer just introduced new designs. I sold my 8 years old ~1300 jumped Sabre 150 with new lineset for about 550$ (about because of i sold it for euro

interesting topic... I hade many problems with my alti. If i wear it on my cheststrap i hardly see it because of my full face helmet... If i put it on my wrist then it might disturb during the work (i do mostly 4way training jumps). Alos the wrist mounted alti is not so practical duringthe canopy ride, since your hand is where it needed :). Since no serious 4way jumper is checking the visual alti during the jump ( first because of the mental clock, second, if somebody is jumping with his own team he/she knows very well by the points they made, that is it time to go or not yet. If the team jumps 10 point avarage from 10k then at about 8-12 points it should be over and turn and track for few secs and pull, you just feel it) And the best location for an alti is realy on the leg strap. The only disadvantage is that it ca be demaged easily there. z

yep... you are the man of luck :) most of us need to draw heavy 2000-2300$ for a brand new Velocity. Congrats if you could do it cheaper. blue skies, z

Thanks for this thread :) i also say Stiletto rules for ever! Hard to beat a well piloted and loaded Stiletto... maybe if somebody is a super talent, and jumping a havily loaded cross/x/etc braced blah-blah canopy which costs hell a lot... i payed 700$ for my Stiletto and it knows far mot then me.. so i love it :) z

Yes, you are 100% right and nothing to question about your opinion. I must admit that windtunel is great tool and it helps to bring the high level competition skydive and the AFF training to a new level. No daubt about it... But still i am one of those who does not really like the idea of wind tunel :) i do not say that they all should be destroyed but as a minority opninion i think that after all the positive effects the wind tunles had on our loved sport it has its bad effects as well. Not admiting these bad effects is the same stupid as not to admit the benefits.. So let me explaine what i think as a negative side effect of the wind tunel. Competition 4-way... I beleive that the big mass of 4way jumpers has the missconception that it is the wind tunel they need. I am very sure that before a team decides to burn up few tousends in wind tunel they must realize that there are many things what they should learn before. These things are the eye-contact, flying the same level, solving problems like going low, launch the exits, make transitions on the hill, learn the dive poolby heart, and in general to act and perform in an extreme and dangerous enviroment and being responsible for each others. All these things are basic things which require jumps, real jumps, from real plane with real bodies. I do not know how many jumps a team need to do for it, but i think when a team learns these important thinks can turn some points (maybe 10-12 or even more depends on talent) already. And then comes the problem of the points.. not before. And many experienced 4way jumper says that there is no idea of wind-tuneling under 15 points...some say that if you are progressing without tunel than just keep jumping, but if your team stucked at 14-16 ponts then go and fix the problems in the tunel. And here I ask.. what good is if after 300 jumps you are able to turn 20+ ponts if you do not know basic things? 20+ ponts can make you a skygod (whic is a dangerous position) but does not save your ass when it should be saved. See my point? Some say that a kids should not learn reading and writing before school-age (even if it is cool) because it can have a bed effect on the kid's later studies... z

BikerBabe, weid14, SkymonkeyONE yes, i was expecting that kind of reactions :) "The tunnel is really where you want to be" no ... it is the bar with my friends where i really want to be.. and i'm also competing in 4way.. but i'm a skydiver and not a tunel cyber :) what i know i know from my mentors and from the sky and what time is given there i use there. Old-school old-way, but works. "Plus, no worries about pulling, landing, cutting away, etc." hmmm I'm not worried about these things... these are the parts of our sports... you know "Do not free a camel of the burden of his hump: you may be freeing him from being a camel." And once again... i do not question the proven fact that tunel training can improve your 4way skills. It is clean fact, stupid who disagrees with this. _BUT_ skydiving is skydiving and wind tuneling is wind tuneling... and my sport philosophy is that do not mix things even if they seem to be effective. I was doing various sports form competition gymnastics to swimming and finaly formation skydive. I belevie that real things are better. If it is hot up there then you sweat, if it is cold than you freez. If you are beginner and do 8-10 packjobs a day, then you will feel your fingers... If you jump a Sabre, then you will feel your back... This is -same as all other sports- about real feelings and not about points... points are coming automaticaly... but since money talks.. you can buy your points earlier :) if you want to... i do not. blue skies z

I think the tunel trining might fix your body position and might help you to turn faster and move more accure... but beleive me that under 15 points avarage th 4way is mostly about problem solving... Problems what you can not simulate in the tunel.. problems like unstable exits, problems like brainlock, going-low, loosing the eyecontact, screwin the "total separation" up, etc. these things can be traing in 2ways best. And do not worry, if you have 500 freefly jumps then you are not that slow and bad as you think. Freefly is a very good basic for formation skydive... It is practical (specialy in big ways) to be able to control your body even if you are unstable :) z

Hi Peter, I live and jump in Finland.. not so far from you :) and now i will write you something what aftter the first reading will sound wierd... Do not spend your money on WindTunel... 13 hours tuneltime gives you about 500-700 jumps experiences. If you hhave 500 freefly jumps in your logbook than nobody expect form you to turn 10-15 points with a 4way team :) Skydiving is a social and time/money consuming sport. But maybe the social part is the bigest. If you are not a serious competiotion 4way jumper than the windtunel is only an ineteresting experience and a 30 mins session is just enough for you. And _jump_ the rest of your money with your mentors and friends. z

Hi, To solve this problem you do not need coach. You just need to understand few things. Imagine that you are jumping out a two way with a hand grip... you release the grips and one of you turns a bit on a way that his/her leg slides to clockwise... what you do automaticaly is to do the same move to be again in front of your pair... so you end up in a nice curving :) The solution is that you both agree which one of you is facing the sun and the other one is facing off the sun. then there is reference for both of you. better not to choose a refenrce pont on the ground since looking to the ground makes you floating, The sun is just the best. z

I think you can buy from any ex-comunist country for reasonable low price. I will ask my friends if it is really in production still or what could be the youngest. I will inform you here. other... there were comments about landing PC downwind and-or frontwind.... According to my knowledge you land all the round canopies in downwind. It is more accure and since the forward speed of these birds are not so high then it is not a problem... blue skies, z

yes... Erno was right

Erno, you are right.... i easily forget about the special things in Finland... blue skies, ps: (ja tämö on koska jadi opetussystemi on parempi kuin nova, mun mielesti)