TomAiello

The original thread is still on the first page... -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I had not considered this. Is anyone aware of a case where this has happened? It does sound possible, I just haven't actually heard of it happening. But given the very low number of LRM saves in the tailgate era, I guess that's not surprising. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Nick, wasn't this in an era when the cloth stub actually stuck directly through the cat's eye? I haven't seen this be a problem with modern LRT style toggle setups (where the white loop reduces the overall force to the toggle). Have you (or anyone) seen a case of a modern LRT style toggle jamming into the control line during a hard opening (or malfunction)? I am unaware of any instances of this happening on modern gear. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I've seen that style (the old Gravity Sports style) toggle blow on opening as well. There's really only one stow point--the pin. If that pin goes, there is nothing really holding the toggle in place. The stow band over the top of the toggle isn't a load bearing point, and it's going to have to take quite a bit of force. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Have you considered using Russel's risers? -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Do you base this on experience or speculation? My experiences testing both systems. I found that by the time I had identified the pull tab on the WLO's and gotten my hand to it, I'd already (before releasing anything) consumed more time than I had by just grabbing and pitching the toggle. Imagine if it were a quickly spinning line over. I'd bet then the difference would be even more pronounced (it's much easier to grab the whole toggle than to fiddle out the red tab in level flight, I'd imagine the difference would be even greater in a spin). -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I don't know. I believe that Apex still has both styles available. Certainly the WLO's are a pin style, by necessity of their design. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Are your toggles of the pin style (Vertigo, Gravity Sports) or the cloth stub style (Basic Research, CR, Asylum, Morpheus) closure? -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Having tested both systems I can say for certain that your system works faster than the WLO's. It's completely invisible to the jumper. Of course, your setup doesn't release the line from the toggle (to allow it to slide through the slider grommet), so it does not address the main issue that WLO's are intended for. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

The reason to route them outside the toggle (to clear a line over) has already been discussed to death, I think. Let me add a couple thoughts: 1) I know several very experienced jumpers who do not use the LRM. I don't personally do this, and I do not believe it is good practice. But, if you search this forum, you can find some discussion of it. I would never recommend or teach this technique, but the presence of the tailgate greatly reduces (but does not eliminate--I have good video of a tailgated line over) the chance for a line over. Some people think the tailgate puts the odds game into a territory they feel comfortable risking. 2) I have seen many premature toggle fires that were not the result of poor rigging. In every single one of these cases the toggle was a metal pin style (not a cloth stub). I believe that the metal pin style toggles are prone to premature release during the opening sequence. I have several theories as to why this is the case (the one I'm most fond of is that the metal pin can slip around inside the pack tray a lot more easily than a cloth stub). But the bottom line, for me personally, is that I will not jump toggles that use a metal pin to retain the brake setting on any slider down (non test) jump. 3) The only reason I can see to use the metal pin style toggles (because they are line release toggle that operate with one hand) only applies on slider up jumps, where the ring will be retaining the toggle anyway. 4) The recommendation not to use WLO's slider down, which was made by the manufacturer, is, in my opinion, for wear and maintenance issues. The metal pin will bend over time from the force of the slider down openings. If you are committed to serious gear inspection, and willing to replace your WLO's at regular intervals if they show sings of bending, I can personally see few reasons not to use the WLO's, in combination with the guide rings, on slider down jumps. If this is your preference, just be aware of the risks. 5) I think that Russel's ring-release risers are a better solution for this problem. I've got them in my gear bag at the moment. Matt, with Russel's permission I'm willing to send them to you so you can try them out and see what you think. 6) Be aware that releasing the line with a WLO toggle in the event of a line over is still going to be a slower response than simply tossing the toggle with the LRM. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Repost. Let's keep the discussion in the original thread. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Have you considered rigging up a pendulator? A couple hours rigging and making 30 or 40 practice exits could be very valuable in overcoming this issue. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

You can see in the video that I don't have the apex of the PC, either. I've just kind of got it somewhere between the apex and perimeter. It's really hard to get the thing straight in your hand in freefall (check out the video of me and Mark R. doing it at GoFast!, and you can see me fumble around with it for about 2 seconds trying to get it lined up). Oh, and it's Mark, not Mike. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I tend to think that's 90% of the cause. Every time I've seen someone starting to get bent pins, and had a chance to watch them pack, they've not pre-tensioned the lines. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

This is an interesting discussion. I made my first wingsuit jumps back before there were BMI's. Although I had good guidance from an experienced flyer, I didn't have the structured first flight course you see today. At any rate, I can't recall being taught any particular way to cut away the wings. However, I have cut away the wings around 100 times (I do it on almost every flight). I simply grap the handles and pull them away from my body. Although there is a little bit of "up" to that motion, I think it's mostly just straight out, to the sides. [I tend to follow this up with a re-grab (for the leg handle) and a pull straight up, to get the leg cutaway, and bring my hands to the risers/toggles.] At any rate, I use neither a "jumping jack" (which I interpreted pretty much as Tonto did--my apologies as the last time someone taught me to do a jumping jack I was 11 years old, so I may have it wrong) nor a "bicep curl". Is there a disadvantage to my "pull straight out" method? Maybe on some suits there's not enough wingspan to get the cables all the way out? -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

To perform a McConkey (rollover) from one of each of the four qualifying objects, B, A, S and E. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Emergency services of whatever kind regularly call in outside experts to help with situations they lack expertise in. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

This is a response from Feeblemind, which I am posting by his request: -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

If you read between the lines (or perhaps on the lines) you will see that John appears to have few friends in the Northern California BASE community, and that thus, he was apparently solo on this load. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Come on. You know the rules around here. I'm banning you from this forum for 14 days. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Dude. School. For sure. Skydiving will still be there when you're making 6 figures. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

>>Better be careful. Might wind up with more than you can handle. All, I understand that some of these things are traditional in the BASE community, and that many view them as necessary in some cases. However, discussions or threats of physical violence are not appropriate on the DZ.com forums. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Does anyone know what John's overall level of experience is? I had heard that the tattoos on his back (visible in his TV appearance) represented every object he had ever jumped. Is that true? -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Like it or not, black death style humor is now, and always has been (and likely always will be) part of our sport. It's a joke, people. Lighten up a little. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

The strength difference between a properly constructed no-grommet (i.e. reversed) riser and a properly constructed grommet riser is not significant in actual BASE use. The important difference for BASE is the one that Nick DG pointed out above--when you drag the "standard" (i.e. non-reversed) riser toward you to stow the lines, you scrape the white loop on the ground. There has been an actual failure of this white loop (which is the smallest, most delicate part of the critical system attaching the parachute to the jumper), resulting in severe injury to the jumper. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com