TomAiello

Pedophilia jokes are not allowed here. That's clearly stated in the Forum Rules: The point of this rule is to establish a certain minimum standard for discussions and conduct in this community. Everyone else involved in this discussion seems to have understood that, and taken the topic seriously. You have obviously not. You already received your last warning. I've banned you from Speakers' Corner permanently. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

On a 6 second slider up delay, I'd say that the tailwind most likely caused that 180. It probably would have happened that way on Tuesday, or Thursday, as well, had the wind conditions been the same. edit for thread title ~TA -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I'm assuming then, that you've met both JP and Shane? Or are you basing your judgment on their posts here? I'm pretty sure that they are both originally Northern California jumpers. This leads me to conclude that their knowledge of each other is probably based on a little more than posts on this or other internet forums. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

RhondaLea, Faber, Cut it out, guys. This thread is about a specific incident. The jumper's history could be pertinent to that. The history between the two of you is not. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

NickNitro, who posted an agreement, is a more experienced jumper in the same area, though. I'd guess that he knows who Yuri is. For what it's worth, I've jumped with Yuri here, and I'd say his skillset is more or less on par with most BASE jumpers at his experience level. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I believe he's known as "Dangerous Dave" over there and "Dirty Dave" over here. The Atlantic City crowbar business upset a lot of people, but there was eventually some confusion on whether he actually did or did not use a crowbar to pry open the roof door. Dave's story was that the police framed him for that and were just trying to bust him for something because they thought they might have trouble getting a BASE charge to stick. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

You can still fly Smell if you don't get that glide ratio though. Fat Americans can just dump early and use the canopy to fly the rest of the way home. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Sure he does. We talked about it on his last climb out yesterday. He said he's very proud of you for pimping him on the internet. He also said he's going to count the tethered balloon jumps whether you like it or not, and you'd better pay up if they push him over. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Ray, Does your 48 have a vent, cap or handle on the apex? -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Do you have any theories on why this might happen? Some theories: Although I've got some video evidence to support these, I wouldn't say that I've seen anything conclusive, so they're still just theories: 1) More folds in = More folds out. The more folds that you put into a PC when you prepare it, the more folds that have to come out of it before it can inflate. When the mushroomed PC hits line stretch, it still has to "de-mushroom" before it can reach a fully extended state. A PC that is simply S folded unfolds itself as it reaches bridle stretch. Because there are no folds "around" itself, it is fully extended immediately upon reaching bridle stretch, eliminating the unfolding process, and hence eliminated a few of the chances for hesitation (say, if one side of the ZP folds manages to somehow slip "under" the bundle, and it takes a few fractions of a second for them to straighten out and get into a "ready to inflate" position). 2) Deformation of the mushroom. As you pitch a mushroom to bridle stretch, the center of the mushroom, where the bridle is, has a greater mass than the outside of the mushroom, where the ZP is. As the ZP begins to expand outward, it experiences more air friction than the (covered) inner part of the mushroom (typically the mesh, but more importantly the bridle folds). As the outside fo the mushroom (the ZP) begins to slow and expand a little outward, the (still travelling faster, and experiencing less slowing) bridle bundle pushes tighter into the apex of the PC, essentially creating a condition in which the PC is trying to invert itself. This is not an ideal pre-state for PC inflation, and the "undoing" of this condition introduces more variables, as well as more required time, prior to the PC reaching a "ready to inflate" position. They're just theories, as I said. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I think it's mostly just a "more fabric takes longer to unfold, and has more chance for random factors" kind of thing. Definitely. On stowed jumps where I really want to avoid hesitation, I tend to repack my PC at the exit, after airing it out a bit. If I know I'm doing something stowed and don't want a hesitation, I'll sometimes leave the PC unpacked and out of the stashbag, as open as possible, when I pack the rig, and then just pack the PC when I gear up. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

It would suck if the people living there were forced to join another nation against there will. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I've got some video, but no good stills. Have you tried to ask Rick Payne? I know he had some momento photos he took after he slammed in there. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Tree, Johnny, Enough already. Let's keep this discussion about the technical topic at hand (large PC's, stowing them, and techniques for stowing them). 3rd grade playground insults are silly and counterproductive. Dredging up old posts that people made about topics unrelated to this discussion isn't terribly useful either. I'm banning both of you for 24 hours. That ought to give you time to cool down and cut it out, but still let you return to the productive, technical parts of this discussion to offer input. Consider this your warning. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I don't think he was trying to harsh on people who use their real name instead of their number. It seemed more aimed at people who make anonymous posts. And, 509, I still remember who got me my number. If it wasn't for you and GoWayLow, I'd probably still be BASE nothing. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

980 and Skreamer are both Seth Effrikens. I'm sure the "English" bit was a poke in good fun. I mean, why else would he use "English" as an insult? -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Pretty much, but it gets the folks behind him, too. It's actually a pretty cool angle. You can see some footage from that angle on the video Fixed 2. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I have seen good video of a jumper experiencing a noticeable hesitation with a hand held super mushroom from under 300'. The jumper is a regular poster here, so perhaps he will chime in with details of his experience. Johnny, please believe that this is not meant as any kind of attack on you personally--it's just a discussion of a technique for stowing the PC. I believe the super mushroom is less prone to hesitation than the standard mushroom for stowed jumps, but I also believe that any mushroom technique has a higher hesitation rate than the 'S folded' or 'Loose ZP' techniqes described in this thread. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I believe this is the method that Apex teaches. I think it's pretty good, but I like the "S fold everything" method better, for two reasons. (1) I think it gets a tighter bundle to throw to full bridle extension, and (2) as noted a longer delay can cause the ZP to start inflating and create some stability problems if you let it slip around in your grip. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I'll bet you two bucks he makes less than 100 packed jumps that he packs for himself. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

JT, You're done here. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Cheri and I were on vacation in Oregon. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

Several. Unfortunately I'm about to go to bed, so I'll try to expound on them tomorrow. That's the same technique I teach. I'm not sure what Apex teaches, although I think it might be the 'S fold the mesh and leave the ZP out over the top of your hand' technique, which I also think is superior to a mushroom, although I have some concerns about it for deep handheld delays. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I learned this lesson when I was just shy of 100 BASE jumps. I experienced a PC hesitation with a 46" stowed PC from a cliff that was about 300'. It was fairly exciting. Afterward, I had the good fortune to talk with one of America's most knowledgeable BASE experts (Todd Shoebotham from Apex--thanks Todd!) about my experience, and learned a lot. Hmmm. Maybe I'll add a Stowed/Handheld recommendation line to my delay-altitude chart, and a note about stowed hesitations. Note (this one may evoke some spirited discussion) that I am of the opinion that folding a mushroom (of any type) with a big PC and hand holding it for a short delay creates virtually identical hesitation issues as stowing the mushroom. For this reason I think the "handheld mushroom" that I see many jumpers using is a bad idea. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com

I think the real difference is that the vast majority of religious people actually apply the principles of their faith to their real lives, and turn out to be fairly decent human beings. In most cases, the messages of religion are pretty simple, and also pretty worthwhile--be a nice person, help other people, don't hurt others--that kind of stuff. Personally, I find real faith awe-inspiring and fascinating. That may be partly because of my own total inability to achieve it (I'm pretty much a confirmed atheist). It's something of the same fascination you might have for someone who is a great freeflyer, if you can't hold a stable head down, or for someone who is a world champion chess player when you can't even learn how the pieces move. It's amazing, it's worthwhile, and it's something I have never been able to do. I often think of fanatical atheists (those folks who seem to think it's their mission in life to harass folks with genuine faith) in the same way that I think of fringe religious wackos (the ones who can't talk to you without trying to convert you). Same thing, different side of the coin. -- Tom Aiello Tom@SnakeRiverBASE.com SnakeRiverBASE.com