Scrumpot

Yeah - cat's now outa the bag. Oh well. He still won't believe it though. Let's see. I've gone ahead and decided to "chime in" now, at this point. Will be interesting to watch this one (I'll bet $$ to donuts) regardless - still... continue. It is amazing how bad some people (and not just with something like this) when they WANT to see something some way - NO MATTER WHAT... they will. - Period. Great Original vid, BTW. coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Well - your prediction was spot on: From "rekcomputers": And... coitus non circum - Moab Stone

So Andy - Are we then, if you are serious about applying this logic, indeed keeping with that logic, when the 2 canopies, once out and flying, presumably already behaving let's just say - "similar in size and flight characteristics" ...when now one releases the toggles on the front canopy - and entering that one, as opposed to the other into "full flight"? Seems to me you may have something of a bit of contradiction in terms there, no? - Just playing a little "devils" advocate here is all, and interested to hear how you now reconcile both statements/positions, when one does seem to be actually, opposed to the other. TIA for playing along. coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Not only that, but if you are mounting your radio also nearby (in the same chest-mount?) - I could see this making a decent "documentary" of the canopy descent, vis-a-vis response to, and even instructor review and on-going evaluation/consideration of honing of their radio instruction even. I think the idea sounds quite interesting/intriguing. Keep us posted as to how it goes - or better yet, add something on this we can all follow in the instructors forum as well. This is now starting to get quite a bit off the beaten path of the OP & this thread. coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Well then, there you go. - Why even bother coming on here and even asking in the 1st place? You already know what you are looking for. - Have at it. ...and don't forget the GoPro. Your kind of coolness, Tobyiscool, is definitely what we all now want (and probably need - you just need to clearly, teach us) to see! Rock-on, dude. coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Here's the difference between your drill, and reality: 1. You are assuming that your "blind drill", done for LOCATION only, is identical to finding one's PC in freefall. - It is not. Here is the difference, and why the instructor guiding IS appropriate/correct... Because of (or at least sometimes in part influenced by) the "high-stress" situation of a skydive, versus standing calmly, in a well known "safe"/familiar environment, and just doing blind touch-drills... In the air, when a student "misses" his/her PC, and/or grabs onto something OTHER than their PC (like say, the instructors alti - which BTW, happens a LOT) - oft times, they THINK that P/T was in of itself, "successful", then - UNLESS CORRECTED - locks onto that (even if erroneous - again, like the instructors alti) object. Come real pull-time, that is where they are gonna go! So therefore, the instructors "re-direction" / hand-guidance becomes necessary. We are not just training for strictly just "blind" muscle memory to occur, to locate their P/C's (although that is a part of it), which your drill otherwise does EXCLUSIVELY. Thus also - absolutely nothing wrong with the "scratch your butt" device being used either (I'll have to remember/try that one too sometime). The idea is not necessarily to go right straight to the very center of that PC (or bottle-cap as you are using for your "practice") to be fully and satisfactorily successful in doing your P/T's - or the actual pull itself even either. I've done it (pulled my own main) over 3,000 times now. I can tell you that even now - absolutely every single time, my hand does not hit DIRECTLY, to the exclusion of absolutely everything else, "dead center" on my hacky each and every time without fail either. But then again, it doesn't have to. It is the entire process, and capability to moreover directly determine instead - both what, and where you are reaching/grabbing. If we did not move their hands for them, at least in these formative stages - both in practice (on the ground) and in the air - they may not otherwise be able to determine either, that they have grabbed (if/when they do) the wrong thing(s). Your brain-training exercise / theory is interesting, and probably partially applicable - but I don't think illustrates where/how for this application (skydiving training) - an instructors hand re-direction / guiding could really, in any way work against them (the students) or be "bad". coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Obviously has mad skillz. C'mon guys, I mean really... aint NOTHIN' to this shit, after all!! Everybody's got to learn to be not so freakin' uptight!! Go, suoer-dude... go!!! coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Congratulations, and WELCOME BACK! coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Here you go. ...Here's some pictures Kimbo, for reference - some of the already described hijinks... https://www.facebook.com/bruce.rittenhouse?sk=photos#!/media/set/?set=a.10150469880636209.423608.649451208&type=3 coitus non circum - Moab Stone

That actually can and does happen. Nice argument FAIL, genius. As others have already alluded, you are showing your own inexperience, and clearly - NOT knowing, what you do not even know. A good, conscientious outside camera-flyer professional will recognize when a FJC student is becoming either fixated or distracted by the camera being there, and will REMOVE it (i.e. himself/herself) from the situation tout-suite. A good, conscientious professional AFFI will recognize this, and quickly rotate the student AWAY from the camera (and yes, "sacrifice" the video in trade-off for the students SAFETY FIRST) if necessary. I've in my experience, seen BOTH of these instances/examples, actually happen. So now then, what more have you got, other than your totally specious, unfounded, completely empty (and inaccurate in their entirety) arguments? You would be well served instead of just spouting for the sake of hearing yourself spout, or insert yourself into subject matter you CLEARLY don't understand... instead maybe (really, truly) to STOP, THINK, LISTEN ...and CONSIDER Your assertions and presumptions in this matter, as evidenced by your clearly incorrect (based) rebuttul(s) - other than for purpose of you maybe trying to be (apparently) inflammatory - are absolutely wrong. FWIW coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Not once they meet/run into Shah!! coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Peanut (snuffy's dysfunctional "underling" ) is here, but nowhere near as prolific as he was on there. Rev Jim, Winsor, etc. About the same. Ynotssor (Tony) haven't seen in awhile, but I think he's "here". Several others I can't really think of this early in the (pre-work) AM. Who remembers Nipple-Boy? Me? ...Over there, I was from an early-on experience and resultant given nick-name: Orange-Splat. coitus non circum - Moab Stone

And... putting something in your gear, that makes anyone think it is OK to go ahead and chop at 300ft AGL, IMHO is also a grave mistake. coitus non circum - Moab Stone

I don't think that in the case being referenced and talked about here (the one from the video linked) had anything to do with the velcro being too loose - as much as it did with an inappropriate stitch pattern/application on the container itself failing, and it pulling the whole container off of the harness enough, to peel the RSL from its velcro, and load the collins lanyard prematurely/out of sequence. Upon opening/hard-opening especially, would an experienced jumper have noticed this (that the RSL appeared separated from the velcro and is being "stretched" / under load - or that the container itself appeared damaged)? - - - Maybe? - Probably? And then, what would they have done about it? ...Do you know what you would have then done/responded before you got down to it's final failure (or riser-release by the collins-lanyard) point as is shown in this video? Would this have happened in the absence of a collins-lanyard being in place (rhetorical question)? - I think that is Kelly's point. coitus non circum - Moab Stone

This thread is getting interesting. I appreciate this added perspective. I remember alot of the debates on collins-lanyards and the reasoning's ascribed to/behind them specifically; and now, of course, their adaptation to and applicability (or maybe even NON-applicability or appropriateness) in/towards a MARD system or environment. At one point, risers being (supposedly) engineered maybe, as even a "fail safe" point to the H/C system. Meaning, that it is (or could be, arguably) better for a riser to fail/break, upon an extremely hard opening, or opening shock level that otherwise might have caused catastrophic damage to either the "core" H/C, or worse yet - the jumper him/herself. So, we "engineer" for that perspective/prospectus. Thus (in part) the reasoning (or at least one of 'em) for the collins lanyard. Now comes along the skyhook. Is the collins lanyard appropriate application to/for/with it? Mandatory some may say? Completely NOT, and maybe even inappropriate altogether too, I've heard others say! I'm not smart enough personally, to discern the difference. I've seen several "hook" variants now, and observed some of their installation(s) on several different H/C systems 1st-hand. They ALL only seem to be "added"/add-on's to each of them. Meaning, "layered engineering" (with unintended/unanticipated potential new consequences exposure created on each) being applied. All possibly even good "concepts" in of themselves, ...but always (and in such varying) COMBINATION with one another? I dunno. I don't think the average jumper even considers any of this. Rather, always simply opting for the latest "gadget", or "bell & whistle" that to them, SEEMS "cool". I'm not so sure that entire system(s) considerations (like for instance - strengthening risers/rings/release failure points, versus the opting for collins-lanyards systems being needed to address them) might maybe need to be a part of a more fully appropriate, comprehensive (MARD) system, yet to be still "evolved"/deployed. coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Maybe you need a link(s) reference to Sangi? Apparently, you have not learned even yourself, that ANYTHING

And that would be a mistaken presumption to make, as well. coitus non circum - Moab Stone

+1. This. Period. coitus non circum - Moab Stone

+10,000,000,000! Indeed. - Just hope he doesn't get prosecuted as being "complicit", or for "enriching a criminal enterprise" or something now though, by some (over/uber) zealot DA/ADA etc. Much props/respect to the OP for being affirmative, assertive and taking thankfully, even despite some unfortunate discouragement otherwise, a pro-active & selfless INITIATIVE in this matter!! I too, would be most interested in hearing all the pertinent details as to how all this (and the bottom-line result of the rightful owner now successfully recovering her stolen property!

Your strawman rebuttals are specious, and not appreciated. Step on out from your veil of chicken-sh** anonymity, and I would then be more than happy to debate you. Until then, like I said, I'm out. Your course of discourse, for any true or truly "honorable" intents &/or purpose - especially for purposes of this thread; or us debating it in of itself, or me any further with you in here, is absolutely pointless. I've said my peace, you've said yours. Move on. Peace. -Grant coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Did I actually just see an atmo, drogue-less tandem being done in this video too? Right around the 2:40 - 3:00 marks? Wow. Some pretty awesome, talented flying going on in all aspects, in that video right there. Thanks for sharing that link! coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Same can be said (and I started to, then decided not to, and just drop it), with "his" (dpreguy) reply to my post, where he tried to rebut and tie my statements in with another piece of totally unrelated (and inappropriate I might add) supposition - story of a clearly from top-to-bottom ILL INTENTIONED from the get-go, flat-screen in a bar transaction. As if that is what I (or anybody else) even remotely suggested. This thread is now getting ridiculous, and the once WELL INTENTIONED window of opportunity at this point as a result, is probably closing fast. I've said my peace now in here. Now I'm done with it. Best of wishes and regards to the OP who has at least now TRIED (and reached out to his community for assistance) VALIANTLY to do all the right things. I hope it works out well, or at least "correctly"/most appropriately now at this point still, for all those involved. Blue Skies, -Grant coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Stuck in the dirt, especially the potentially fertilizer and chemical(s) rich/saturated dirt of a corn field for an extended period - even if it could be washed to "look good", I would toss it. Remember too, that when these are packed, they are then sealed inside your (reserve) container then, also then putting this in constant contact with your reserve canopy and the most key/core components to your H/C. Seriously - for a couple of thinking to be potential $$ savings (which could actually turn out over TIME to be quite the exact opposite!) - you really want to risk that? Don't even give it a second thought at this point. Toss it. Period. My .02 coitus non circum - Moab Stone

I agree, completely. But some people on here are let's say, just a little "polly-anna" / PANSIES, or actually do believe that the local authorities actually WILL jump right upon this. So, what the heck - DO then, give that a try. But... QUIT DODDLING / PLAYING JUNIOR CITIZEN DETECTIVE. - Either do as Lepka has suggested (you've got their #/contact/e-mail info!), or dpre-guy. Everything/anything else is just letting time (and re-trackable/traceable trails to these guys IF it is indeed stolen) get away. coitus non circum - Moab Stone

Bring absolutely everything you have on this matter to the police **NOW**. DO NOT DELAY! Then, come back on here and report to us what happens. coitus non circum - Moab Stone