Zenister

of course! you never know what is enough until you know what is too much -W.Blake ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

unbiased sources by known historians, those without any thing to 'prove'. cross referenced with accepted provable records, and verifiable timelines. Yes such exist. Of course few of them reference your carpenter in any manner at all. perhaps he wasn’t as significant as your writers like to claim? which while extremely significant to those living in the vicinity, IS NOT a worldwide flood that wiped out all of humanity with exception of "god's chosen " family details may point to a common event, however that event does not imply the cosmology christians claim it does. By way of example the fundamental 'event' of the christian faith, the resurrection of their christ, is a rather common myth to multiple older (Egyptian and Assyrian, off the top of my head) mythos as well.. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

well for starters would you like to focus on OT or NT? there are issues with each, we can also discuss the "immediacy" of the gospels creation, there are lots of sources that contradict the statements made as 'fact' in the link you provided. I'll get you a nice comprehensive list in a bit when i get back to my library. of course we will simply spin around the same tired paths every time this discussion occurs, christians cant even 'prove' who wrote what texts in what time period, but will always accept the dates and timelines that best fit their belief no matter how little evidence there is to back the assertion..... if your going to look for answers you should listen to what they say not discard them when they disagree with the answer you wish to be true.. perhaps we should agree on what defines "evidence" first because it will become an issue rather quickly, believers tend to accept quite a lot of hearsay as 'evidence'.. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

your kidding right? please dont tell me your accepting that undergraduate level essay as proof of historical documentation. You really really need to study the issue more in depth if that’s what your basing your assertions on..there are so many blatant fallacies, out right falsehoods and self referenced 'facts' in that essay it's ludicrous to look at it as a 'historical' analysis. Try again when you have FACTS that weren’t created by believers for consumption by the ignorant mass. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

yea your right i didnt check the link, but remembered it as Audioslave from before... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

actually i'm not 'confused' about any issue relating to divinity. although i really do wonder why people chose to look for God in the writings of Man instead of looking for him with their own senses through their own direct experience? God doesn’t hide and you don’t need an intermediary, or an interpreter, no matter how often your priest says you do...he's only protecting his job... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

its not my horse to flog, but your attempts to pronounce truth and false as if you were God herself are amusing.. you are the one who claims to have all the answers, all from the mythos of an ignorant culture... how sad to still be so blind having seen and done so many wonderful things there is far more to divinity than your preconceptions can imagine. maybe you should look without the blinders sometime...you'd be amazed how beautiful the music really is.. what you percieve to be "the consequences" is a myth. your myth, and has no bearing on my relationship with the divine. I have never been seperated from God and never will be, no matter how much you wish to paint your saviors blood on my forehead, i dont need it.. keep your blindfold if you wish..I will not wear it, nor will i accept the burden of guilt your religion attempts to give mankind, its your life, and your soul, God loves you anyway, no matter how many you attempt to blackmail into accepting your version of divinity.. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

March is solid, but May i might be able to swing thru TX...that would be very very cool.. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

Audioslave -Show Me How to Live ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

really? i'd love to see it, because i've been having this discussion for YEARS and no one from the christian camp has ever shown any evidence that backs their claims of historical accuracy. When examined closely there are far more holes in the texts of your faith than christians will admit...when it comes down to a point by point analysis, they usually start screaming 'metaphor' as the facts dont support their position very well at all... actually its far easier to place your trust and faith and follow someone else when confronted with the unknown, than it is to seek a path that isnt predefined for you by your church.... christianity is wonderful way, with many benifits and wisdom to be gained on the way, if your a herd animal that needs such comforts and protections to sleep at night... but it is by no means the only path to God, no matter how much you wish to pretend otherwise... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

very cool...i can do a 2 hour drive standing on my head, so i'll be out to check the dz even if the weather sucks... cant be much worse than WA...whats the rate for 3k H&Ps?? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

replace ' the media' with 'their church' and i completely agree....come on people! think for yourself..it really doenst hurt once you get used to it ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

Shame on you! All that money spent on toys.... Your next jump with me....I'm gonna have to charge you... $1,070!! Bwahhhhhhhhh..sheesh charge me!!?!? what!! i was the one doing all the work, you just kept flying around whereever your little heart desired... ps. will be back in PHX mid march...after a quick jaunt to NJ...hopefully i can make it Cross Keys to play one day at least... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

nioce! i think i'm going to go find one this afternoon...if i can ever get this RAID configured.... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

i'll be in NJ in early march...not sure how far Ft. Monmouth is from Cross Keys, but i'm bringing my rig just in case. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

wow your a skydiver?!? very very cool, i've been a big fan of Watchtower's since an early demo of Control and Resistance...fell into my hands in college.. wish i could make it to that show, the lineup looks incredible, i'd love to see yous guys and Seiges Even both...its hard to catch that kind of progressive metal in the US... nioce! ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

other than your biased fictional reference, cite one source supporting Solomon as "the wisest man who ever lived" should I pick apart his culture mores in reference to your book? Seems Solomon has a different idea of what constitutes a ‘marriage’ than the you modern Christians…did God change his mind? Again? Geezzz cant your God be consistent for once?!? again when you can speak to me of your own personal experience and describe your understanding and relationship with God without resorting to the crutch of other men’s vision and dogma, i'll give real credence to your words. until then your simply mouthing the phrases your church gives you.. tired and contradictory they are not the repository of sole truth.. wisdom is seeking the answers for yourself, not accepting a conveniently vague, politically motivated and highly flawed work of literature as 'gospel' and blinding yourself to the light of divinity as it exists in the world here now for everyone without the guilt of your cultural mythos... "Dont understand?"- look in this book it has all the answers "Still doesnt make sense" -come to our church we'll explain it all "this makes no sense, its blatantly self serving, shows obvious cultural bias and contradicts itself repeatedly" - you must have faith, just relax and let us show you... [I]and eventually[/I] "you want money for that which God gives freely?" -of course its a business we all have to live, we've found we can do it by preying on your fears and convincing you to support us. "think what we want you to, believe what we tell you, there is no other way, God told us so right here ( ignore the eraser marks), its divinely inspired word we swear!” but thats ok, as we see your security blanket gives you all the answers, nice and easy, no individual thought or effort required..just let the martyrs do it all for you, how easy to get your wings.. fortunately more and more people are waking up from the coma your dogma has put them in and seeing the divine with their own eyes.. Go back to sleep....safe and ignorant.... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

you like the rest of your faith continues to assert this, your continued assertion in no way makes it any more true, and using your 'source' as proof of itself is simply ignorant, but then i find christianity is often a refuge for those who do not wish to think or see for themselves "this is God's SOLE WORD!" "how do you know?" "it says it is, GOD wouldnt lie!" "uh but it was written by MAN" "INSPIRED by GOD!" "how do you know?" "it says it is night here see!!!!! werent you listening?!" such lame circular reasoning, please...your logic is fundamentally flawed, as is your understanding of divinity. Continue to confine God to the limits of your imagination and the 'records' of the bloody bronze age culture you seem to think was the most pivotal moment for humanity. It wasnt, it wont be, and someday when all of your apocalyptic ravings have still not come to pass you may go look for her without the filter of another MAN's vision. Live and die in ignorance if you chose perhaps you'll figure it out eventually. But i somehow doubt it...you simply cannot see past the narrow confines you attempt to fit God into... It isnt as if your source is even consistent in its depiction of your god and his morals in the first place, no matter how many believers have edited it. when you can talk to me of God using your own words and experience and not blithely quote your scripture as if its proof of anything, i'll accept your word for what it is, a personal testimony on your experiences with divinity, as is your simply mouthing the words given to you by another…. Sorry but their vision of divinity stops at their cultural frame of reference, and while her word is there as well as it is in everthing, you cant seem to clean the pride and arrogance from your eyes to see its is also in more places in more ways than you can imagine and is not be limited to your dogma no matter how often you hold it aloft claiming sole truth and revelation. You just cant accept that God is greater than your conception of her can you?? Why do you feel it necessary to understand everything, and try to fit divinity into the tiny box of your belief? I guess it helps you sleep at night beilieving it will all be ok because my pastor and his book tells me I am saved [I] and ps we still want your offerings to tell you more about God[/I] ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

You got a different book, do ya? every book written thus far, including the christian's bible, religious in intent or no, the message is everywhere in everything, have you really looked? direct observation, or do you believe God has any reason to hide from you? cant you see the waves? ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

read again, i have no doubt of Divine inspiration occurs daily. i said i do believe you and asked for clarification. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

History dictates that the Bible was written by men who walked and talked with Jesus himself. There is also something called Divine Inspiration and private revelation. At the risk of being called a nutcase, I personally have experienced both. So much so, that I am convinced there is only one God and one truth. edited for clarity you are not a nutcase at all, but you will honestly tell me that your direct experience of divinity said "I am Jesus, this way and no other" and handed you a bible? perhaps you interpret your experience thru the pattern your mind 'expects'? because i will tell you with complete sincerity, that everyday, ever hour any minute when i still my thoughts and open my eyes i can hear the voice of god ringing throughout creation. reminding me how easy and beautiful the flow of life really is even in thru troubled water. its all waves, you chose which to ride. everyone finds their own path to god if they truly look, revelation is only private if you keep it to yourself, it comes again with the dawn of each day, rise of every moon. the orbit of any electron. or any other way humans chose to measure time. like soooo many other thing such single point distinctions really dont matter to God, and it would be so much better if they didnt matter so much to so many humans. its easy. really. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

no idea what your asking here? from? everything. belief? you dont need it direct observation is significant enough, it takes some practice (as nearly everything does) but its really so stunningly simple once you look for yourself, divinity doenst hide, go outside and look, listen and stop thinking about it. defy dogma you dont need any of it. the word of man keeps you from hearing the voice of god. the assertion that 'God' is 'this' because 'my book says HE is' is ludicrous. Its a rather easy argument to reply to, you'll note the continued lack of coherent response since. 'God' precludes gender. but christians will continue to insist God remain true to their vision of Charlton Heston on a what must be a really uncomfortable stone throne...... please. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

oh i'm going many places and none of them have names you've ever heard... actually i use those terms intentionally as it (annoys the shit out of you fundamentalists and far more importantly) highlights one of the fundamental misconceptions you christians have about God. he isn’t male. she doesn’t care what you call him. she isn’t female either. he isnt human and is so far beyond the conception of gender the words are meaningless he is greater than your tiny mind can comprehend. she is greater than my tiny mind will ever know. you are not separated from him. you never were. he doesn’t stop speaking to anyone ever and doesn’t need any 'moral leadership' from you, your pastor or your church to reach humanity she doesnt want your blood, your money or your prayers he just wants you to live and love and become more than you have been she will help, if you listen if you commit your energy to it. i'm not trying to cater to anyone. i'm trying to help you open your eyes and throw off the narrow conception of divinity your dogma allows you to have... Divinity is not limited by the dictates of the pathetic book you hold aloft and worship as if your ancestors didn’t scribble it themselves with their feces stained hands...because as much as you wish to pretend otherwise they did! however that great achievement doesn’t change the nature of divinity or humanity's experience of it, it is simply one testament, and a reflection of the culture that created that it, and there is soooooooooo much more to God. you wont hear, wont listen at all however.....you never learned to look for yourself without the crutch of another man's vision of god... oh how very little you do realize... I don’t have to try..I can hear her voice on the evenings wind right now...i'm sorry if you cant, as there is sooooooo much music you will never know.....but clutch your security blanket tighter if it helps you sleep thru the night, just don’t pretend what you believe affects anyone or their relationship with God. You can have your blood and your guilt, we'll be out dancing in her creation. excuse the howls.... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

dont worry she is...however much they wish confine God to the tiny minds of a bronze age, misogynistic culture... looking for God? try looking in her creation, and not in the words man tells you are his, and asking for your money and blinding to that which God gives freely…...her word is everywhere in his creation. go out and enjoy it, with only the guilt you make for yourself. always interesting to watch someone attack an author when they have no reply to their argument. ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

i was going to give up work for lent....then i remembered i wasnt christian... ____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.