masterrig

Go back and review what you wrote! You said Dartmoor! The way you tell it, this must've been around the last of the 19th. century! Chuck Dartmoor is a swamp, isn't it? I'm no Vaquero by any stretch of the word, but I don't think that you can raise cattle in a swamp. I stand open to correction. That's what google - wikipedia says! Big-big archeological site, to boot! I did a bit more digging and found that there is some farming in the area but is not profitable. It's all assisted by government grants. Chuck

Keep diggin... Chuck

Go back and review what you wrote! You said Dartmoor! The way you tell it, this must've been around the last of the 19th. century! Chuck

If, one can handle all that humidity! Here in West Texas, it got to 10-below zero (daytime temps.) for several days, last winter. We lost a lot of new calves. Plumbers couldn't keep-up, repairing frozen pipes. Summer came and we had upwards to 110 - 115 deg. temps. We have two seasons... winter and summer! Chuck it got pretty cold up on the edge of dartmoor in the middle of a deepest, darkest devon winter. me and my brothers grew up in the back of a link box throwing hay out to the cows midwinter. all that snow, and a hilly farm - luckily roll bars had just been made mandatory... ...yawn. Are you talking about the Dartmoor in South Devon... that is 'protected' by the National Park System? Chuck

haha yea right "working a farm" involves more than one hat a farmer is: electrician mechanic heavy equip engineer weather man business owner ecologist carpenter agronomist vet laborer iDreamdancer Bot wouldn't last 2 days on a farm i grew up on a working farm - you wouldn't have survived one winter... You left-out 'gambler'! Other than that, you summed it up, real good! Chuck

If, one can handle all that humidity! Here in West Texas, it got to 10-below zero (daytime temps.) for several days, last winter. We lost a lot of new calves. Plumbers couldn't keep-up, repairing frozen pipes. Summer came and we had upwards to 110 - 115 deg. temps. We have two seasons... winter and summer! Chuck ...and the work never lets up, either winter or summer, I'll wager. Not a bit! There's always something. Chuck

If, one can handle all that humidity! Here in West Texas, it got to 10-below zero (daytime temps.) for several days, last winter. We lost a lot of new calves. Plumbers couldn't keep-up, repairing frozen pipes. Summer came and we had upwards to 110 - 115 deg. temps. We have two seasons... winter and summer! Chuck

That's part of the experience. Like a gameshow where you dodge freaks in order to get the good deals. Yesterday I took my jump drive to the photo center and had 110 quality 4x6 prints in 1HR for 14 bucks. Had to grab some window blinds too. I want to send a thank-you card to the kids back East but the packaging doesn't specify the originating sweatshop. You are mor than welcome to the 'Wal-Mart ambiance'! What gets me about Wal-Mart is, their prices on some items, are right up there with Best Buy or other stores. In my case, the nearest Wal-Mart is 85-miles away. I prefer to shop 'local' and avoid the 'Big Boys'. You gave me another reason. I don't care to buy items that were more than likely made by some little kid, in some sweat shop for 2-cents per item they crank-out!! Chuck

Thanks for that! I really appreciate it. Chuck

To me, the inheritance tax is a crock of crap! Should be 0%! That estate has been paying taxes over the years and would continue to pay taxes if, left alone. Chuck

Tell me this, The inheritance tax is there... how does 'estate planning' avoid it? Chuck

Hey now This bring up a point I had not yet thought of Maybe he should be complaining about lazy ass parents who did not leave him anything?? Maybe we are geting to the root of his anger? Ding,ding,ding... Then, he tries the old switcheroo by saying everyone else is 'whining'! His bowels are probably bound-up from all the cheese with his whine!? Chuck

The food will be prohibitively expensive, and alternet and commondreams can bitch about the greed of the American farmer, organize "Occupy Farmland" protests during harvest time, steal food from the silos, and talk about how fantastic they've been. Then when the farmers go out of business, then food becomes more expensive, and they bitch about how the government has to do something to feed people and make food more affordable and that corporate greed and redneck farmers caused this problem and should suffer the consequences. Aren't you understanding this? "Bitch about problems. Don't work to solve them. If possible, cause more problems, thus being able to bitch about them. Pick a villain, point the finger, and bitch that they caused it. Repeat." Yes, I understand the situation. Name one person who doesn't bitch about something! One person who is being left out of all this discussion is 'the middleman'. He buys (cheap) from the farmer and sells (high) to the grocery stores. Chuck

Refer to my last statement in my last post to you! Savvy? Chuck

Those folks don't whine! They keep working and they do their best. If, every farmer or rancher that had a big mortgage or loan, quit... where do you thin people are going to get their food? Do you have any idea how much of the grains and produce, beef and etc., is shipped to foreign countries besides the U.S.? Our government and their laws don't help. You're the one who is whining!!! Pobre cito! Hows that OWS thing going for you??????????? I'm done with you! Chuck

Yeah? From whom? They've got land that is already mortgaged in most cases. They have equipment with payments due. Let's not talk about seed, feed, vermin control, water, electric, utilities, etc. All the expenses necessary to get a farm running. Not to mention the constant costs of keeping "Occupy Farmland" fleabaggers from stealing the crops from the 1% of people who farm and setting up tenements in the middle of the alfalfa fields. Then they get hit with a big bill like that? "Hey, can I refinance the farm?" No. the farm already OWES money. Add to that a tax bill that lowers credit. Then let's discuss the practicality of giving ANYONE a loan right now, much less to a farm that has a new owner. Yeah, a bank is going to look at that and say, "Why yes. We'll go ahead and refinance this. We'll wait last in line in case this doesn't work." Yes. They can invest in their future. They did when they learned the business from mom and dad and decided against going to shit in parks to protest how unfair it all is. #1 Chuck

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate_tax_in_the_United_States Basic economics 101. They NEED cash on hand to pay the tax or sell. Damned few farmers or ranchers have that kind of money in the bank. Too many farms and ranches have mortgages already. To buy more cattle or farm machinery. Chuck they NEED to get another loan then - they've already got a huge chunk of free land. surely they can invest in their own farm and future? Yeah, sure! Just get another loan! Most of them are in hock up to their ears as it it. You need to take some serious time away from the computer and get out into the real world, instead of looking to google for the answers to the mysteries of the universe. Like I said... you don't have a clue! Chuck and you're whining on behalf of kids who are inheriting millions of dollars - get real man... Bwa-hahahahahahahaha... Just telling it like it is! I'm sorry that you're not getting your share of the fatted calf. Chuck

exactly what i've done... next ...and you don't have a clue about the realities of farming and ranching in the U.S.A. I work for ranchers and they tell me 'how it really is'. They want their ranch to stay in the family but the tax situation, the way it is, makes that hope very bleak. They know the reality of things. Chuck working a farm is working a farm. you seem to be saying it is not possible to work a farm unless you get it for free... I'm not saying that or insuating that at all! You do have a wild imagination. Chuck

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate_tax_in_the_United_States Basic economics 101. They NEED cash on hand to pay the tax or sell. Damned few farmers or ranchers have that kind of money in the bank. Too many farms and ranches have mortgages already. To buy more cattle or farm machinery. Chuck they NEED to get another loan then - they've already got a huge chunk of free land. surely they can invest in their own farm and future? Yeah, sure! Just get another loan! Most of them are in hock up to their ears as it it. You need to take some serious time away from the computer and get out into the real world, instead of looking to google for the answers to the mysteries of the universe. Like I said... you don't have a clue! Chuck

exactly what i've done... next ...and you don't have a clue about the realities of farming and ranching in the U.S.A. I work for ranchers and they tell me 'how it really is'. They want their ranch to stay in the family but the tax situation, the way it is, makes that hope very bleak. They know the reality of things. Chuck

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate_tax_in_the_United_States just before that, you bleated: In your wiki example, each one of them has to come up with $345,000 to pay the tax bill. What options do you think they have? Generally one - sell the estate. They don't have the option of "working the farm;" it doesn't generate the sort of cash flow necessary to pay that in year one. Or they could take on another large mortgage and get foreclosed on in a couple years. It's amazing you got the gall to troll the others by calling them commies when you have a picture of Marx hanging over your bed's headboard. Thank you sir, for that! Chuck

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estate_tax_in_the_United_States Basic economics 101. They NEED cash on hand to pay the tax or sell. Damned few farmers or ranchers have that kind of money in the bank. Too many farms and ranches have mortgages already. To buy more cattle or farm machinery. Chuck

Many of the 'kids' want to keep the ranch going. In the case of 2 or more siblings, one or more might sell-off and I'm sure, out of greed but, the ranch is continued on a 'smaller' scale. I know of two brothers who inherited the family ranch. Originally, it was 14,000 acres. The one brother kept his part going as a working cattle ranch. The other, sold his portion to The Nature's Conservancy. I'm not going to say that greed doesn't rear it's ugly head but the inheritance tax is a big persuader to sell. Chuck Corporations buy them up. The best possible way to transfer assets from individuals to corporations is a death tax. Corporations never have to pay them. People do. The estate tax is the corporatist dream. No doubt! I'm seeing several ranches in my area on the block right now. The for sale signs all read: 'Will Divide'. Much of it is due to the drought we are experiencing but 3-ranches I know of ar due to death of the owner and the kids have to sell to pay the tax. There's been a movement to put an end to the 'inheritance tax' but it doesn't seem to have gotten very far. Chuck rubbish - the kids have to sell because they want to divide it and maximise their inheritance... not one will want to work the farm to keep it going by themselves... then they blame 'taxes' instead of their greed...

That's what we know of. His 'super truck highways' are questionable. Chuck

Wait. You mean that family businesses are being broken up due to taxes? Wow and gee. And yet, there are people who find death taxes to be so beneficial to the country, for it redistributes that wealth to everyone. No it doesn't. It allows corporations to do things like buy ranches at estate sale prices. Thus pushing out the small businesses and expanding the breadth of agribusiness. If ever there was a policy that enabled big businesses to shit on small ones, I cannot think that any would be better than the estate tax. Of course, dreamdancer sees it as nothing more than tearing down a rich person. Which is all dreamdancer is about, anyway. Since this area is expanding in population, these ranches are being sold off in 5 and 10 acre parcels for 'homesteads'... not agribusiness. Most of the ranchers I know, are not 'rich' by any means. All ranches in Texas are not 'Southfork'. It's hard to be 'rich' when you only draw 1 paycheck a year. All those bills accrued through the year have to be paid. Things such as feeds, medications, fencing materials, electricity for wells, Vet bills, pick-up payments and general maintenance. Right now, with the drought, there's no grass and cattle feed is the highest it's ever been. Cattle have to be sold just to meet expenses and try to hold-on to what they've got. It's tough. Chuck