wolfriverjoe

Try having a dog find a dead skunk. Not just dead animal, not just skunk. Dead skunk. At the DZ no less. The dog found it in the field across the runway (I think it was cabbage that year). The dog came into the hangar and everyone gagged. The dog was banished to the far (downwind) side of the landing area for the rest of the day. Even my dog thought it smelled bad. The owner said he almost puked several times on the drive home (with all the windows down). The dog stayed in the garage for several days, getting baths in a wide variety of substances each day. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Most??? "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Just about sums it up. Nobody understood what was happening. Nobody had expected, planned or trained for this kind of event. Hijackings, yes. But multiple planes simultaneously, hijacked to be used as huge suicide bombs instead of ransoming off the passengers for demands, everything that went on that day was never really anticipated. It's hard to blame the people for not knowing how to respond to something they didn't at all understand. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

I would also like to point out that there is no evidence of anybody being saved from anything by the Bible. There is no evidence of any life after death or of any soul or spirit that lives on. So what you have is a lot of claims with no evidence. More spiritual salvaion while still alive than being saved from "eternal damnation" IMO. I know quite a few people who "found God" and were "saved". Saved from a life of despair and depravity. Saved from a lonely and horrible death. Saved by finding a spritual way of life. Some through the Bible, some through other means. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

What the Bible says is important, and the apparent contradictions need to be sorted out. But what It does is much more profound. Despite the nit picking by those who have blinded themselves, the Bible has given a way of hope and salvation to countless millions of people throughout the ages. Myself included. Bolding mine. Absolutely. That's what the Bible is for. I can fully accept the contradictions and inconsisitencies in it becsuse it was written by men. Also edited, translated and copied (before there were printing presses, the only way to copy it was to copy it by hand). Mistakes were made and passed down. It's value for spiritual purposes is immense. It's value for historical and scientific purposes is less so. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

It's not a "want to believe". I hold myself accountable to God's laws. And as an imperfect human, I fall short and am in need of forgiveness (which I have asked for and presumably been given). And I don't deny the overall message of the Bible. I just can't reconcile the inconsistencies of the Bible with the evidence of science. I can accept that the Bible was written by (imperfect) humans, in a time when science was barely understood (There are 4 books to the NT because there were 4 directions, and 4 elements). It was a poor attempt to explain what was percieved at the time. And has a lot of errors in it. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

I disagree with your premise ("given" inaccuracies, changes, mistranslations, we should distrust). Those might account for less than a percent of the whole, there is no evidence that any of it was done with intent to deceive, and none affects the fundamental doctrines of the faith. Also, the original manuscripts are inerrant, not necessarily everything in the KJV translation (that's not one of the versions, by the way, that I rely on for study). A more scholarly (word for word) translation into English would be the NAS or ESV. Besides, infallibility means that the Bible does not err in any of its affirmations. It does not mean that a KJV translator can’t make an error in usage or omission. But again, there is no evidence of any widespread translational dishonesty and those very few discrepancies account for a miniscule portion of the whole. In this way, the vast number of translations themselves gives much credibility to the accuracy of the Bible. The Bible is the most scrutinized work in history because of what’s at stake. It is trustworthy. I believe it was said that approximately 95% of the New Testament could be reproduced from the Dead Sea Scrolls alone. There is no other ancient work in existence with as much textual and historical evidence as the Bible. I'll agree that none of the innaccuracies take away from the overall message of the Bible, just that they make it untrustworthy as a completely accurate historical record. But a lot of the changes were made with the intent to exert control over the faithful. And while 95% of the NT is found in the Dead Sea Scrolls, there are large amounts of the DSS that have been excluded from the Bible. Selectively edited out because the ones in charge didn't like what they had to say. To say that the Bible is accurate because "There is no other ancient work in existence with as much textual and historical evidence as the Bible" is kind of like comparing an ant to a grain of sand. In comparaison, the ant is huge. But that doesn't make the ant big. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Probably your best bet. However, pay attention to the elastic. If the goggles are out of the "student pile", the elastic may not be in very good shape. Once it gets stretched out, the goggles will not stay in place anywhere near as well. I wear the big ones, and I have found that I need to replace the elastic every year. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

The moderators would have to answer that. My guess is that it's because it is already cross-posted in another forum, and/or it is a re-post. If so, does anyone have a link to the original post? I tried to search but no luck... http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4176825 I think this is the original thread. It gets a little confusing when it gets reposted 3 or 4 times. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Yeah, maybe Pittsburgh will make it to the Superbowl again this year... GO PACKERS!!! "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

You live in southern California, right? Driving on the freeways out there takes a lot of courage. Maybe more that jumping "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Maybe because a good leader delegates authority and responsibility not mircomanage. Also, maybe he knows that money does not change natural disasters. IMO. Money changes the effectiveness of responses to natural disasters. Maybe if Perry had shown more leadership instead of playing absentee governor the responses would have been more effective. Maybe if they had funded emergency services, they would not have run out of firefighters. http://www.salon.com/news/politics/war_room/2011/09/07/perry_firefighting_budget/ "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

That really made my day. Thanks. You understand it perfectly. Your instincts see the edge of the door and tell you "NOOOOOOOOOO" but once you're out they have no input because you are in a totally alien environment. Don't try to make the anxiety go away, learn to manage it. I still feel it. I know a lot of very experienced jumpers who say that if they ever stop feeling nervous in the plane then they will quit because they will have become too complacent to be safe. And remember - The absence of fear isn't courage, it's either supidity or insanity. Courage is being scared half to death and doing it anyway. You sound pretty brave to me. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

They actually get quite a few facts correct. It's the interpretation of the facts that's so far out of whack. I happened across a discussion on the radio a few weeks back. The commentator was arguing that dinosaurs had to coexist with man. The argument went something like: Fossils have been found of dinosaurs with the remains of their last meal discernable in the stomach. The last meal was discernable because the bones of the dinosaur that was eaten hadn't been digested yet, and had fossilized too. BUT, since that meant that the last meal was a creature that had to have died when it was eaten, and there was no death before the fall from grace and expulsion from the Garden of Eden, then that dinosaur had to have existed after Adam and Eve. Really. That was the argument. Of course the other person on the air didn't put up any debate or argument, but acutally complimented the main commentator on the elegance of his argument. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

FIFY I love how we are supposed to discount all the evidence available because it conflicts with the "eyewitness account" in our "trusty Bible". So Jaybird, one more time, given all the evidence of innacuracies, changes and mistranslations in the current (KJV) Bible, why is it that you trust its word as absoulutely correct? Yes, it's a "loaded question". One that you keep dodging and ducking. Or ignoring. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

I think you can question the events of Sept 11th without being a 'I hate America' person. Indeed some very patriotic Americans question the events. The attitude of 'you're either with us or against us' has a lot to answer for in the last ten years. I fully agree. Questioning the things our government says is fine. But the theories proposed (controlled demolition, nanothermite, all that) are beyond ridiculous. They don't stand up to any real examination. Popular Science magazine did an article on this (they wondered if ther was anything to the "Alternative Theories" becasue they were so widespread and pervasive). They couldn't find any validitiy to them. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

You have to wonder if he did it simply to generate the controversy (and the subsequent publicity). I don't think he has the talent to generate this much buzz without doing something stupid and offensive. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Me too on both of these. As long as the elastic is in good shape and fairly tight, the gogles stay in place just fine (on my belly at least). I use the Croakies as insurance 'just in case', but I've never needed them. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

So you mean everyone else doesn't do that when they aren't able to jump? Oh.... "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Jersyshawn covered most of it, and his experience matches mine. Answers to your questions in reverse order: Yes, you are overthinking it. Newbies come out and (mostly) sucessfully land parachutes all the time. We know they can do it because we've seen it over and over again. Student canopies are usually rigged so that you can't pull the toggles down far enough to stall them. There are ways to get around this, but you have to really try. Student canopies are big, slow and fairly forgiving of mistakes. And the student landing areas are huge clear areas. A little (or even more than a little) short, long or whatever shouldn't be too much of a problem. Depending on where you go, you may also have a radio with an instructor telling you where to go in order to make it to the landing area. Prior aeronautical experience will mostly be a help. You already understand traffic patterns and approach/glide paths and the concepts behind the flare. You also understand how to judge your height above the ground during final. That is one of the things a lot of students have trouble with. I say mostly because a first timer with no aeronautical experience will simply listen to the radio and pull the left toggle when told to go left the right toggle when told to go right and both of them when told to flare (usually anyway, some of them just don't listen). You will actually understand what's going on and may think you know what you are doing. Listen to your instructors and you should be fine. It is a "totally new and different kind of aircraft", but it still follows the same aerodynamic rules as any other wing. The controls are a lot different, but very intuitive. You will have some time to get the feel for it on your way down. It's easier than you think. Airplanes land a lot faster than student canopies. The little bumps and burbles and stuff that you have to throw in the little corrections for during the flare really aren't there. The randomness is still in the air, but you aren't going through anywhere near as much air when you land a canopy. I had a good amount of piloting experience when I first jumped and the transition was pretty easy. Overall it was a big help. Remember to listen to your instructors, make sure you understand what they tell you and most important - the only stupid question is the one you don't ask. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Aint that the truth, and has continued to be ever since. 'Experts' who know feck all expounding 'fact' that they just made up. Right. And then you repeat that "fact" enough times that the tin-foil-hatters believe it (added on to their desire to in the first place) and... Voila. Instant conspiracy. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Point #1 - You have to remember the total chaos of that day. The amount of speculation. half truths and absolute bullshit that was put out makes this completely understandable. Point#2 - WTC 7 was horribly damaged by the collapse of towers 1 & 2. Add to that the fire from the backup generator fuel (something like 30,000 gal) and the emergency managment predicted the collapse well before it happened. They pulled out all the firefighters (and lost none in the collapse) which then fueled all the speculation and conspiracy theories about it being blown up on purpose (the infamous "pulled the building" comment). Perhaps the BBC was informed that WTC 7 was going to collapse, and the "going to" part go lost somewhere between the reporter on scene and the anchor on TV. In the clip, WTC 7 seems to be still standing (I don't know for sure that the one pointed out is actually WTC 7) and the on scene reporter is talking about buildings that have collapsed. It's hard to tell if she thinks WTC 7 is down or if she missed the anchor's "Salomon Brothers Building" comment or what. Again, remember the chaos of the day and how many people had to comment on stuff that they knew nothing about. Anyone having experience in crisis managment will know what I mean. Or put on your tinfoil hat and assume that everyone knows everything about everything, and that people with the intelligence and skill to plan this and execute it made really simple and stupid errors and told the news that the buildings were down before they had a chance to demolish them. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

That's really easy: "All sorts of stuff, but not much that's of any real use." I have an incredible memory for all sorts of useless trivia, but often can't remember what I needed at the store unless I make a list. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Like Squeak, if it's someone who cares about me and is asking honestly I will answer honestly. If it's just a random stranger, I usually answer "Well, I'm still above ground and sucking air, so I really shouldn't complain too much." I have been known to answer "Ups and downs, just not enough of them" when I can't get up in the air much. My wuffo friends who know I jump usually enjoy that one. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Let's see, in America we've had FOUR planes hijacked by terrorists and crashed at great loss of life. And America has had ONE big truck bomb blow up a building with great loss of life. You were saying? What part of the word "private" don't you understand? The USA is NOT the world, nor even "America". I refuse to accept the confining limitations of your parameters. Thank you for the geography lesson, but I ddin't need it. I don't always agree with Kallend, but the title of the thread includes the words "Small Airplane". The airliners that were hijacked were far from small, The two incidents that involved small planes that I can recall were rather anti-climactic. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo