wolfriverjoe

I want to say about $1000 (USD) per hour. Plus coach cost. Those vary a great deal. I could certainly be wrong on this. The times I've gone, I went in with another jumper. We got the block time discounted at SDC Summerfest. Maybe $850/hour. We took a couple other people with us (both jumpers and non) to split the cost. The coaches have been willing to work with experienced jumpers and 'fly' new guys. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Once you start going down hill, all you do is pick up speed. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

He was wrong... Well, Obama never really said that. As usual, somebody is misquoting and taking out of context. Obama was talking about Trumps claims that the election was going to be 'rigged'. He was referring to voter fraud (you know, the stuff that Rs claim happens all the time, yet is really rare) and vote tampering. NOT the idea that the Russians were trying to influence the election. Edit to add link that shows Obama's actual statement. This link actually says what it's supposed to and supports my claim. You know, unlike someone. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

That's one of my big issues with such measures. They are almost all financed by bond sales, and every single one states "THIS WILL NOT RAISE YOUR TAXES" in bold print. But that's stupid; the money will come from somewhere, and bond measures eventually end up raising taxes (because there's only one source of money to pay them back with, and it eventually comes from taxpayers.) I would be MUCH more willing to support a measure saying "this will raise statewide taxes by .2% for 5 years, and then expected revenues will allow a similar reduction." That shows me they thought about the economics of it, rather than just pushing the problem off to the future. Somehow, that is what I expected. "Yes, we're going to spend all this money, but we won't raise taxes." Please. That's garbage and everyone should know it. But it seems that far, far too many people fall for it. So keep DST all year. It's not the offset, it's the 2 x year change that's the problem. Or keep standard times and have companies let people out an hour earlier in the summer. Or all year long. No need to change every single person's/machine's clock for that. The issue with that is that in the winter, the sun doesn't rise until well after 7. If DST was in effect all year long, that would be after 8. And kids going to school would be doing so in the dark. "THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!" I wish I was making this up. This was one of the bigger arguments for Indiana not changing how they did their clocks back when they changed to DST/Standard time. OTOH, I was in the Washington DC area a few years back in the fall when the time changed. And the first evening commute of the year was an absolute nightmare. Apparently everyone forgot how to drive in the dark, the same way they forget to drive in the snow for the first snowfall of the year. And I don't see it as that big of a deal to change all the clocks. 4 in the house, 3 cars, a couple wrist watches (yes, I still wear them). Phone & computer change themselves. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Of course you could just (crazy I know) do things at a different time in winter vs summer The need for DST has always amused me. The 24 hour clock was invented to measure and represent the time of day. But now we're so wedded to what the clock says rather than what the day is doing that instead of changing the stated time at which we do things to fit the season, we have to make the clock wrong so we can keep doing things at the same stated time. In the UK there's growing support for making DST (GMT +1) the time all year round. Making it so that midnight is never midnight and midday is never midday because people can't just decide on their own to go to start an hour earlier and finish an hour later. There must be a whole branch of sociology dedicated to studying that You expect people to do the logical and sensible thing? You aren't that foolish. Sociology, psychology, even physiology. Circadian rhythms are very interesting to study. I think we tend to be creatures of habit. To the point that the 'typical' "Start at 9, lunch at noon, quit at 5" workday pattern is so ingrained that if the clock were completely reversed (dark at noon, sun at zenith at midnight) most people would still go to work when the clock read 9. It's easier to move the clock than to change people. Even time zones in the US are pretty funky. The thing with Indiana that I noted above is because that state is at the far western end of Eastern time. So they are 'later' than just about anywhere else in the Eastern zone (there's a part of the Upper Peninsula of Michigan that takes Eastern time way west, but the "Yoopers" are really weird anyway ) Same thing with the plains. The Dakotas are mostly Central time zone. I've been places where the sun doesn't set until after 10 PM in high summer. For Arizona & Indiana, they are on the borders with the next time zone, so what they do doesn't really matter. For California, ditching DST would make Nevada a 'time island' half the year. Not to mention that official stuff would likely not change and (god forbid) it would screw up the TV times. Start screwing with people's TV watching and you will have a real revolt (only half kidding here). "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Well, understanding that everything and everyone on this earth dies is part of it. Understanding that my death (and the death of everyone else) makes room for all the new ones being born and is necessary helps. When my dad died, as the funeral was ending, there was a group of people gathering in the back of the church. For a baptism. Saying good bye to one, saying hello to another. That was surprisingly comforting to me at that time. In the intro to the Darwin Awards book (first one, I think) basic evolution is described using squirrels. The point is made that if every squirrel ever born made it to adulthood and reproduced (and all of those offspring made it), then it would take about 5 years before the entire surface of the earth was covered in squirrels (presuming squirrels float). Death is a necessary part of life. If the astrophysicists are right, one day the entire universe will 'die'. The solar system certainly will, and if we don't figure out how to get off this planet and out of the immediate neighborhood (say a few hundred light years) then mankind will also cease to exist. There's also the very real possibility that we will destroy ourselves and the planet (and that may be fairly soon). Yes. There are times when I want to live 'forever'. There's progress that I'd like to see happen. There are people whom I wish to be able to see what happens to them. That's part of the 'acceptance of it is not a one and done thing'. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

I remember you.

Not in CA, but it didn't say "have to ignore." Just out of curiosity, the first 4 cost something like $15 billion. Is there any mechanism in place to pay for that? Is there any requirement for any of these 'propositions' to pay for themselves? Or say where the money will come from? I'm not trying to be snarky, just genuinely curious. I would think it would be more honest and open to say (for example) 'we are going to spend $X million dollars on widgets and pay for it by imposing a 10% tax on dohickeys." I fully agree that the idea of amending the Constitution by a simple majority in a referendum vote is pretty stupid. It should be hard to change a Constitution (state or national). Super majority in consecutive referendums, along with consecutive super majorities in the state legislature. There's a reason it's as hard as it is to amend the US Constitution. It helps prevent stupid decisions. Yet we still got the 18th amendment. Finally, DST is probably fairly silly if you are in the lower 30s for latitude. However, up in the mid 40s, we see a huge swing in daylight hours. Without DST, first light would be well before 4 AM in June & July. With it, sunset goes out to nearly 9 PM. It makes for much better summer evenings. It also saves a fair amount on power (no need to turn on lights). That's why it was put in place to begin with. FWIW, Indiana didn't change their clocks until fairly recently. They ran Eastern DST during the summer and Central Standard time in the winter. Being on the far western end of Eastern time, it made a lot of sense. So, of course, they switched to Eastern time full time (DST & Standard). "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

I would check with the tunnel you plan on using. My (limited) experience is that block time needs to be done in 15 minute increments. You need to reserve that time ahead of time. You can't 'just show up' and expect to get in. It may happen, but don't bet on it. You will need a coach at least at first. The tunnel will likely require it until you show that you can do it safely. Despite being skydivers, you will be 'completely clueless' at first. It's a very different environment. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Right. Amazing how quickly you redirected from 'Hillary started the birther thing' garbage. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Dunno who said it, but it goes something like: If someone came through time to today from the 50s, what would they find more amazing- That I have in my pocket a device that lets me communicate with most of the world and access almost every piece of information known to man? Or that I use it mainly to argue with strangers and look at cute pictures of cats? "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

It's worth pointing out that Christianity stands as an exception to this theory. Christians were violently persecuted in the early church, which continues to this day in many parts of the world. Yet the church has grown not just in spite of this persecution, but arguably because of it. Muslim fundamentalism demonstrates another exception, hence why the US and others are often hesitant to merely execute terrorist leaders, because for one leader executed, 10 more spring up to take his place. Not really. Christians have gone after 'non-believers', skeptics and heretics throughout the ages. The Inquisition, the Crusades, Witch Trials (which occurred in a lot of places other than Salem Mass) and the Holocaust are the easiest examples. The "good men of religion" have been killing each other off in the name of God since before recorded history. All religions, not just Christianity. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

You don't actually read what you link, do you? Bolding mine. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

You're just jealous that you don't have access to backchannel Spec-Ops comms Pfft. Anyone who has real access to that sort of thing isn't going to be on here talking about it. The funniest part about that claim is that having 'back channel' comms implies access to 'front channel' comms (official ones). "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

So "QAnon" is telling us to be sure to drink our Ovaltine? I find it fascinating how many fools are duped by this garbage. I think they want to be 'special' and to know stuff that they think nobody else does. Barnum was right. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Hillary did not start the Birther conspiracy, Trump did champion the Birther conspiracy for years, and yes it does have to do with this thread. Trump's hypocrisy on this is I gotta love how those who promoted the 'birther' shit the loudest now claim that it was HRC who started it (hint: It wasn't). I don't like HRC and didn't vote for her (and wouldn't today). She pulled every trick in the book to secure the nomination, both in 08 and 12. Do the people who hate her think that she wouldn't have been all over this if it had had any merit? "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

From the article: Yup. Leadership. It's a real skill. Not one I've seen displayed much recently. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

For now. Unfortunately, the people who keep insisting that their religion is more correct than science, and should be taught in public schools rarely give up. And, of course, the same type who keep trying to force their religion into public schools in other ways are still at it too. A football coach in Washington (state) liked to pray after games. On the 50 yard line. With players. When he was told that he shouldn't do that, he refused to stop. He was put on admin leave and his contract wasn't renewed. So he sued. And lost. And appealed and lost. So he's now going to the Supreme Court. Which ruled on this over 50 years ago. Abington vs Schempp. I think they will simply decline to hear this one. There's a few requirements for the SC to take on a case. This doesn't meet any of them that I can think of. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Several hundred years? When did I say that? Religion has been around for thousands of years. Probably for tens of thousands. Certainly long enough for evolution to have some influence. And it wasn't just the killing of skeptics by the religious. There's also the survival aspect of it. Following religious dietary laws had a strong survival value back then (hint: more than 'several hundred years' ago). There's also the societal survival value of it. If the society doesn't survive, then the likelyhood of individual survival goes down. The idea of religion having overall value as a survival trait from an evolutionary standpoint covers a lot of different individual traits. And the value is in a variety of areas. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Kind of funny how all the folks who were making a lot of noise over in the incidents thread have yet to show up here. It's a subject certainly worth discussing. I don't see it as necessary for normal operations, but I'm willing to listen to those who think otherwise (and have reasonable opinions and can state them that way). Random thought: The 'missing' jumpers were all solo. I know there's usually a 'built in' check in for students (who do most of the solo jumps), in that they have to debrief with an instructor and get their stuff signed off. For those that are insisting on a check in, how about just for solo jumpers? I can't think of any jump I made that didn't involve some sort of debrief on the ground after. Even if it was just a high-five and "That was FUN!!". But I was taught early on to make sure my entire group makes it back safely. The one that is the outlier is the Byron incident. But only partly. I received some info on that one via PM (along with permission to post it), and apparently, the dead guy was planning a solo and found a couple new guys in the loading area and joined them. If he had originally manifested as a solo, then a solo check in system would have caught his disappearance. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

So it's easier to become a citizen here than in Norway. Oh come on. Do you want to have a serious discussion or do you want to keep pretending to be an idiot? I know you're too smart to think that competency in language is the only requirement for citizenship in either country. So please, act like it My point is 'if it's so great there why isn't everyone going there'. Fairly certain you need to be bringing a lot to the table for Norway to take you in. The overall position is we need immigration reform. Far too difficult to become a citizen here however, until you secure the southern border reform is useless. Every time we grant amnesty to 100 we create 1,000 who want the same thing. Because it's goddamn cold there is my guess. 'Cuz all the weirdos jumping off the cliffs? Seriously, I would think it's available opportunities. Look at the US. While many (most?) of the factory jobs that were the mainstay of the middle class have gone or are going away, there's still huge opportunities for anyone willing to bust their ass for low(ish) wages. Construction, meatpacking (slaughterhouses), food service (both 'fast' and traditional), warehousing, domestic services (inside like cleaners and outside like landscape/lawn care). There's even opportunity for those ambitious individuals who want to start their own business. I don't think any more than a small fraction of the opportunity available here is available in Norway. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

Well, the original TV episode left off with the kid (played by Billy Mumy, later "Will Robinson" on Lost in Space) creating a snowstorm that will destroy the crops and lead to starvation. But all the adults agree that "It's a good thing". The woman showing up and becoming a "normalizing" influence (with a strong potential for ulterior motives - I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw it that way) was in the movie from 83. The same movie that killed Vic Morrow and a couple kids during filming. The parallels between the kid and Trump are pretty interesting. However, he doesn't have absolute power (not yet anyway). This claim about a tax cut being put in place 'before the election' is a load of crap. So's the EO about citizenship. Smoke & mirrors to draw attention away from the dumpster fire in the White House, from what's happening with the economy, from all the crap that's slowly coming back around to bite him. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

A handful? Never heard of something called the Inquisition, for starters? The original quote I was responding to was: "One of the reasons so many people believe is because in many cases, the skeptics were put to death (for a variety of reasons) while the believers lived on. So any genetic traits that would reinforce belief are passed on. Those that reinforce disobedience towards God or skepticism are not." While witches, scientists and other skeptics were killed during the inquisition, many more religious people, protestants, Muslims, pagan, etc., were also killed. Not to mention the Roman persecution of Christianity, which by wolfriverjoe's logic should have influenced the evolutionary extinction of Christians. My post was strictly meant to show the absolute absurdity of his claims and his apparent ignorance of how evolution actually works, rather than to get into some meaningless pissing contest about which groups killed more people. We all should know by now that that title is held by various communist regimes. Regimes that "consistently advocated the control, suppression, and elimination of religious beliefs, and actively encouraged atheism." I think their death toll was somewhere in the 100+ million range, but who's counting? As opposed to the absolute absurdity and ignorance shown in your entire post? I was taught that the Garden of Eden was 'perfection', until Eve ate from the tree of knowledge and introduced death and evil into the world. OT God destroyed Sodom & Gomorrah, killed all the first born in Egypt, sent down the ten plagues, and, oh yeah. Killed everyone on earth but Noah and his family. NT God said to love thy neighbor, turn the other cheek, let he who is without sin cast the first stone, and on and on. There were a lot more than 'a handful' of witches killed by the church. Estimates usually run into 6 figures. Mendel's work was important. Maybe more so than Darwin. But it wasn't recognized until well after his death. The church has funded and supported some scientific research. But it's persecuted and executed scientists who's work contradicts church teachings. Scholars in the past were almost exclusively religious. But then again so was the entire population. Darwin himself was devout. But his discoveries made him question his faith, and his intellectual integrity made him reject it. My father was both devout Christian and a scientist (paper chemist, dye specialist). He understood the difference between the two. Evolution is a wide ranging and complex process. Survival of the fittest is one way of looking at it. Survival of the most adaptable or luckiest are others. There's a huge range of "nature or nurture" arguments. What traits are learned and what are instinctive (genetic). Little is proven, much is suspected. Evolutionary psychology is quite new and unproven. But the things it hints at are interesting. None of the info I posted is my own. Nor do I claim it as 'fact'. Just some interesting speculation. At it's essence, evolution is mutation in individuals. If enough individuals posses a trait, and survive, it gets passed on. Some traits are beneficial, some are not. Some have benefits at one time, but not later. Sickle Cell Anemia is one of those. Other times, bad traits get passed along due to isolation and the strength of other traits. Haemophilia in 19th century European royalty is a good example of this. It's not 'Christianity' I'm talking about. It's religion in general. There's a lot of societal benefit to it. Survival of a society means survival of individuals. The idea that the propensity towards faith is in all of us is true. It's what my point was in the first place. As I've said previously. There's lots of very good reasons to believe in God. The fact that none of those reasons require God to actually exist doesn't invalidate those reasons. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

The Colorado incident thread has gotten waaaaay off topic, with a couple of folks taking this part of it a bit far. Claims that 'it's happening more and more' (not true) or that 'the DZ doesn't care' (also not true) are being tossed about. Phree used the title of this thread to try to get that one back on track. There was also a fairly long discussion about it in the thread on the Russian at Perris. It's a bit of a touchy subject. For the rare times when it would be of benefit, it's a good idea. For the rest of the time, the question is "Is it worth the effort?" The CO incident is apparently the 5th in recent memory. Houston, dude planned to land by his trailer. He was injured on landing, crawled a short distance from his gear before he died. Found the next day. Byron, went in no-pull, found by the resident of the property he ended up on. Nobody knew he was missing. Elsinore, wingsuiter who ended up landing in a really unusual place. Someone noticed the canopy on the ground after a few loads. Perris, Russian solo jumper went in no pull. Nobody noticed he was missing, his wife started looking for him a few days later. Large SaR effort in the area came up empty, body was found a couple months later. I don't know the details of the Elsinore incident, but a check in system would have had no effect on the overall outcome of the four others. In the Houston incident, the jumper had declared an 'out landing' for the last jump of the day, which he apparently did sometimes. In the Byron, Perris & Longmont incidents, the jumpers went in no pull. The only difference a check in system would have made is when the body was found (and maybe not in the Perris incident). Would the time and effort of having a check in system on every load be worth it, given how rare this sort if thing is? I don't think so. Some of the suggestions in the CO thread are pretty drastic. If I was told that I had to put money down and would lose it if I failed to check in after each jump, I'd likely go elsewhere to jump. The larger DZs I jump at have an 'Air Boss', who's job it is to watch the sky. He (or she) knows how many jumpers are on each load and counts canopies. Cutaways or 'out landers' are spotted and chased after. I'm not sure what would happen if they came up a canopy short (someone going in no pull). I've never seen that happen. In the event of jumpers landing off, there is an accounting of jumpers. They make sure that all jumpers on the load check in. This can be done individually or by groups. I've gone to manifest and said "I'm back and so is 'X', 'Y' and 'Z' that were in the group with me. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

It also wasn't all that helpful for anyone accused of being a witch. One of the reasons so many people believe is because in many cases, the skeptics were put to death (for a variety of reasons) while the believers lived on. So any genetic traits that would reinforce belief are passed on. Those that reinforce disobedience towards God or skepticism are not. And no, there's not a 'believe in God' gene. But there are tendencies and traits which would make someone more (or less) inclined to believe that are hereditary. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo