Hooknswoop

I wouldn't recommend that. Opening shock could really screw up your arms. It would suck to be in freefall w/ two broken arms. Hook

Hey Ann- Who was more scared on your level 1, me or you? :-) I'll never forget that ground prep, "check altitude, there's my man, do the touch the handle thing, check my man, check altitude...................." I was thinking, "uh oh, this is gonna be fun :-)" Hook

"With respect to high initiation on either canopy, I respectfully disagree. Both give acceptable, though not spectacular, landings straight in, so it's okay to finish the turn and find yourself too high for a surf. If you have to hook to get an acceptable landing, I'd encourage you to fill out as much of the Accident/Incident Report Form as possible, to save your S&TA some work later." A canopy that planes out 15ft above the ground after hook turn will not finish w/ a nice landing. It will slow to below it's normal "full flight" airspeed, then surge foward in an attempt to acclerate back to its' "full flight" airspeed. But at only 15 ft, it will surge towards the ground, so now you are under a canopy w/ little airspedd diving towards the ground. Your only option is to flare fully and accept a "ankle burner" of a landing since the canopy does not have the airspedd the flare completely, similar to an accuracy approach, but under a canopy not designed for accuracy. I never said i have to hook to get an acceptable landing. In fact I have attempted in the past to end the myth that small canopys have to be hooked to land. I'll let the Accident/Incident commet go. "With respect to low turn initiation, the real problem is fixation on the direction of landing rather than constantly evaluating if the altitude is sufficient to continue the turn. The prudent swooper ensures that even a cross-wind landing is obstacle-free, and so is prepared at any time to stop the turn and begin the surf-flare." Once you initiate the turn,regardless of the amount of heading change, you are swung out from under the canopy. You are now commited to lose a certain amount of altitde before pendulming back underneath the canopy. If you are going to land cross-wind or downwind, the Super Rocket is generally more forgiving than the Sky Truck. In cross-wind situations, the faster you go, the smaller a correction you need to zero out the cross-wind component of your ground path. "The time of surf is independent of direction. The Super Rocket allows more time to adjust the descent rate, including during downwind landings, where the primary problem (once you've adapted to the breathtaking ground speed!) is maintaining balance when your canopy stops flying and you still have lots of horizontal momentum." I never said downwind/crosswind/into the wind swoops affect the amount of time of the landing. I can hook my Safire 189 and I can hook my VX-60. I think that from the time I initiate the hook to touching the ground is about the same on both canopys. The VX covers a lot more ground, but goes a lot faster. So I don't put much credit on the theory that larger canop[ys give the pilot more time to make corrections during the hook. "If you've been practicing your Super Rocket downwind landings, a hook initiated to low results just in cross-wind landing -- an opportunity to practice carving." I feel that a 90 or a 180 loses the same amount of altitude in a hook. I get swung out just as far w/ a 90 or a 180 degree hook and therefore use the same amount of altitude to recover fro the hook. "I guess I'd like to see a skydiver equipped with a canopy he'd feel comfortable making cross-wind landings with before I'd encourage him to try swooping. And I think the kind of jumper who needs to judge if he's between 45 and 55 feet above the ground is unlikely to be successfully swoop more than once or twice -- a matter of experience and equipment." Before I'll teach someone hook turns I want them to compoletely comfortable and prficent in all realms of canopy flight, fast, slow, risers, toggles, etc. The point of my 45-55 ft judging scenaro was to demonstrate that large canopys are not ideally suited for learning hook turns. Hook

I couldn't afford to pack reserves for free. The costs and time involved demand that I charge. I often talk w/ the customer as they watch me pack, answering questions on AADs, RSL's rigs, canopys, anything that they ask about, or that comes to mind as I pack. I have spent a lot of time and effort getting to this level of rigging and I am continuing to work towards my Master Rigger's ticket. I honestly don't make enough money rigging to justify the time and expense, I do it to help out and because I enjoy it. I think it is the same as AFFI's being paid. Sure we would all like to be rich enough to teach for free, but 2 problems w/ that one: 1) If there are some instructors that are wealthy teaching for free, what are the instructors that aren't wealthy going to do?, 2) I probably wouldn't rig or teach AFF if I was wealthy for fear of being sued. Hook

I have had long conversations w/ several people concerning the "ideal" wingloading and canopy type to start to learn to hook turn under. At one end of the spectrum is the Skytruck 300. It is very slow and forgiving, but it has very short recovery arc and does not instill the skills neccesary for a small elliptical. At the other end of the spectrum is the Super Rocket 90. It is very fast and unforgiving, but has a very long recovery arc. Let's say, for arguments sake, that in order to plane a cnopy out across the ground after a hook turn, you need to be w/ in 10% of the ideal altitude at the start of the hook turn. Let's also say the Skytruck has a 50 ft recovery arc and the Super Rocket has 500 ft recovery arc. So to properly hook the Skytruck you have to start the hook at between 45 ft and 55 ft, a 10 ft "window". Any higher and it will plane out above the ground, slow down then surge, giving you a poor landing. Any lower and well, call 911 or at least get out the band-aids. To properly hook the Super Rocket, you have to iniate the hook at between 450ft and 550ft, a 100 ft window. Same thing for too high and most likely worse for too low. So, where does that leave us? The shorter the recovery arc, the harder it is to hit the "window", but the bigger the recovery arc, the faster the pilot is going. It does seem to me that it takes about the same amount of time from start to finish to hook a big canopy as it does a small canopy, the smaller one just goes through more altitude and covers more ground, so there doesn't seem to be more time to figure things out and adjust under larger canopys. The longer the recovery arc, the safer you are, but the speeds are too much for someone trying to learn. Too short of a recovery arc and it is too difficult to hit the right altitude and the skills don't carryover to small canopys very well. So, somewhere between the Skytruck 300 and the Super Rocket 90, lies the ideal wingloading and canopy to learn how to perform hook turns. I believe it to be somwhere between 1.5 and 1.7 under a 0-P fully elliptical. This gives a good trade off between margin size of the window you can iniate the hook at and not too fast. Of course be very proficient w/ the canopy before starting to learn hook turns. It would scare the hell out of me to hook a large F-111 canopy. Hook

Even w/ ground training people screw up landing large canopys on their first try all the time. Give me two months to train someone, I don't think I could talk that long, and put a 1st jump student on a 107 or 120 and they are going to get hurt. I agree that students should get more canopy training but I disagree that w/ enough training they will be ready for a small canopy right out of the gate. There is no way, w/ any amount of training, that I could have handled a 107 or 120 on my first jump. I recently had a student that was so nervous that on final approach he went to half brakes because the speed towards the ground scared him (this was under a Manta 288). The more I told him "toggles up" the more he flared, eventually landing on his butt uninjured. I asked him over the radio "which way is up?", he pointed up. The I asked him "which way did you move the toggles when I told you to let them up?". He pointed down. On another occasion, I took a doctor on a tandem jump. They were trained to read the altimeter and w/o and pull at 5,500 ft. They completely understood on the ground. Well, they didn't pull, so I did. As I am doing house cleaning chores under canopy, they start patting my leg, where the handle would be. I ask them "what are you doing?". "Looking for the handle to pull". I said "I already pulled it". "why?". "Well, because you didn't". "But you said to pull at 5,500 ft". I said, "Right". "But my altimeter only says 4,500 ft". They were so sensory overloaded they thought the altimeter would go the other way. And this was on a tandem jump. After an AFF level 1 it is a wonder a student can do anything under canopy, much less handle a small canopy. Hook

Anyone w/ a camera is welcome to tag along (just don't kill me, I got enough to worry about and keep me busy on the jump:-)) I think an outside view would be very valuable. I would wear a sidewinder w/ a camera but nothing else. A belly cam won't wortk (terse is in the way) and I am familar w/ the sidewinder and that is the only helmet I wouldn't be worried about snagging a line on. Hook

Sorry Phree- there is not enough time avaialbe to train someone to jump a tiny canopy for their first jump. A first jump student would have a 0% chance of landing un-injured under my VX-60. That is like saying that you can take someone that has never flown and if you put them in a class room long enough they can fly an F-16. Not gonna happen. If it could, the Air force would save a lot of money by training pilots that way. Instead, they start out on simple, slow aircraft, and step by step move up to faster, more complicated aircraft as they demonstarte the ability to do so in a very structured enviroment. Student canopys are an excersize in trade-offs. You want a canopy w/ enough foward drive to get a student back to the DZ if they fly downwind, but is slow enough for them to have the time to judge their approach and landing. It should open soft, but not snivel for 1200 ft because a student can very easily determine a snivel to be a malfunction. It should have plenty of flare power to set them down soft, but still set them down soft if they flare late/early. It should be as close as possible to their first canopy, but slow enough for a first jump student to handle. You want the most performance they can handle, but still be forgiving enough for the student to make mistakes (and they will, part of learning) and not be injured. Pretty tall demands. That being said, I have taught using large F-111 7 and 9-cell canopys, large 0-P, Large 0-P, 7 and 9 cell canopys, and large to medium 0-P 9 cells. The best results, (0 injuries, even 50 jumps down the road) was starting w/ large 0-P 9 cell canopys (.8-.9 wingloading) and progressively moving towards 1.0-1.2 wingloading w/ 0-P, 9 cells. Teach approaches, flat turns, riser turns, stalls, etc. Split the focus of the skydive between the canopy and the freefall. AFF is way to focused on freefall and severly lacks in canopy instruction. Landing a Manta 288 7 times and then buying a 0-P 190ish loaded at 1.0 is risky and un-necessary. The DZ accepts less risk (hard to get hurt under the huge student canopy) but then the student buys gear and is now on their own. If they get hurt, it is their fault. They are licensed skydiver, responsible for themselves. How many people buy a canopy that is the same or close to the canopy they jumped as a student? Very few. So how many people get more formal training on their new canopy? Very few. Not a good situation in my opinion. Hook

Right, I have to deploy the stiletto first in this configuration. If the Stiletto/Safire combo is any indication, I would have to release the brakes on the PD-170 as it inflates, because last time they entangled after downplaning first. There wasn't any time where they flew together long enough to try and improve the situation by releasing the brakes on the "reserve". If they will play together long enough for me to get on the toggles, I'll release the brakes on the PD. I want to keep cutting down the performance difference disparity between the canopys until I find some sort of break point. Something so that I could confidently say XX% difference in size between an elliptical 0-P main and a reserve is a bad idea. Hook

OK the Stiletto 97 is packed in the terse and the PD-170 is ready to go into the main compartment of the J4. WX depending I will try another 2 out test jump, so last chance for input. Anyone?????? Hook

Richard- Excellent question and it should generate some pretty good discussion. When people ask me to teach them how to hook turn, I look for 2 critera. First they have to have the canopy skills to handle higher perfomance landings. Second and more importantly, good judgement. They must be able to evaluate their abilities honestly, self-critic their performance, make the right decsion, under pressure, every time. They must be willing to apply themselves and spend the time and effort to get it right. The hot shot, nothing can get me, I know what I am doing and I am very good 18 year old, no fear t-shirt wearing, low pulling feak is an accident waiting to happen. I won't teach them because they won't learn. Hook turns are not for everyone. A bunch of jumps is not a garentee of being capable and ready to learn hook turns. I think if I had to start all over, I would never be able to down size to the canopy that I have, or get away w/ zero injuries. It takes a big commintment to do it right. My thoughts anyway. Hook

High Modulus Aramid Fibre, I think Hook

I would guess the top-secret part is that it is an 84 sq. ft. Xaos-27 cell w/ a standard warning label on it.

You are correct. A canopy will turn / harness input for the same reasons that a loose legstarp will cause a turn. Hook

i think I remember PD trying to get that to work and decided it wasn't worth it. Hook

The party goes on forever and the swoop never ends...............

I have put a canopy that had only 2 links removed from the lines back together, took about 20 minutes, and that was a main. It is a pain. If you are going to pull the links off and zip tie the line, might as well put the zip ties through the lines then remove the links, so they don't get twisted or out of order. That would cut down re-assembly time. PD ships canopys this way w/ a little plastice tie through the lines. Hook

I think he ment BASE canopys and reserves are folded the same until being put into the D-bad or container. I pack my BASE rig almost identically to the way I pack reserves. Hook

Also a back board. If everyone knows how to do it, you can have them packaged and ready to go when the pro's get there. Hook

Time from cutaway to fully open reserve depends upon several things including, but not limited to: Reserve size, PC launch and inflation, PC size, body position, and packing. Containers are made w/ the same size reserve PC. Cutting away from a fully inflated main w/ my old XRS to having my 109 fully inflated took less than 200ft (on video and another jumper witness) Cutting away and deploying my Fury 220R on my J4 took longer for the canopy to come out of the bag, but inflation time was about the same, but i was falling faster because it took longer for the canopy to come out of the bag. So it took closer to 400 ft for full canopy inflation from the cutaway. Same PC lifting more than double the weight. I guess ideally, you would fire the reserve on your side or head high for the best PC launch and be belly to earth shoulder even for the deployment. Hook

I have used and built a bunch of velcro slider keepers. If you have stowed the slider in a velcro keeper, you have a good canopy, or really screwed up. If you have to cutaway, there is no way a small piece of velcro is going to support your body weight, or more if you are pulling "G"'s. Let's say that it did, when you fire the reserve, the velcro keeper would slide off the reserve flap, releasing the main. Velcro slider keepers aren't dangerous. Hook

Chris- Nice work. It would be nice to add "Add X seconds for an 8 way, add X seconds for a 9 way", etc to your chart and post it in the back of jump ships. The pilot can pass back the jump run ground speed and then people can refer to the chart as people exit to determine the time between exits. A little digital clock would be pretty cool too. What do you think? Hook

Shoulders all the way up and foward, without being restricted by your rig. Lay on the ground, facing up, hands at your sides, heels 6 inches off the ground, shoulders off the ground, pointed toes, shrug your shoulders all the way up and foward. Now hold this postion for a minute and a half. It is tiring, even in free-fall. Hook

Along the same lines, I heard someone say they would get on the 300 way attempts only if they had a cypres. If it so dangerous that you feel there is a good chance you will need a cypres to save you, don't do it. If you couldn't handle it w/ only a rig and a helmet, don't do it. These devices (I won't get into RSL's, my pet peeve:-) ) can fail, rely on yourself first and if you want them, great, but treat them as back up's only. Hook

After it goes through the self- test it should read "0" w/ a down arrow.