Hooknswoop

If there is just enough slack in the steering lines that when the front risers are pulled down, there is no slack remaining in the steering lines and the steering line will be taut at the initiation of a front riser turn/dive. As the canopy accelerates, the drag on the steering lines will increase and pull against the toggle and the tail of the canopy. This drag is transmitted to the toggles, and the tail. The jumper feels this force as an increase in front riser pressure, even though the pressure on the front risers has not increased. Since the jumper is holding the toggle, the tail will be pulled down a little and the perceived front riser pressure will be higher. This causes the canopies maximum speed to be lower, the recovery arc to be shorter and possibly, for the canopy to 'buck'. The only fix is to lengthen to lower (brake setting to toggle) control line. This puts more slack in the lines, preventing the tension at the tail and toggles. It is possible that in order to have enough slack in the steering lines to prevent the tail from being pulled down, the jumper will not be able to completely flare the canopy. Longer risers, which moves the canopy further away, is the solution to this problem. Your diagram is representive of normal, steady state flight, but not a front riser dive. When there is just enough slack to allow the front riser to be pulled down without pulling down the tail, there isn't enough for a maximum speed front riser dive because of the drag on the steering lines. Edited for better explanation and pic. Derek

The faster you fly, the more drag there is on your steering lines, bowing them back and pulling down the tail. Try this: Clear your airspace at altitude, without the toggles in your hands, do a full 360 with the front riser(s). If the canopy doesn't buck, then your steering lines are too short. Try another full 360 turn with the front riser and with the toggles in your hands. If the riser pressure is higher, then your steering lines are too short. If you can't completely flare your canopy, then your steering lines are too long. If you find that you have to lengthen your steering lines beyond where you can completely flare the canopy to prevent it from bucking in front riser turns, longer risers is the only 'fix'. "How to Adjust Steering Line Length for Optimal Performance" The length of the steering lines can drastically affect how a canopy flies. High performance canopies are affected much more than lower performance canopies. All canopies should have some slack or a slight bow in the steering lines. If the steering lines are too short and pull down the tail of the canopy during full flight, even slightly, the canopy is flying in brakes. If the canopy is flying in brakes, it will not have as much speed to trade for lift during the landing flare. Over time the steering lines shrink as a result of friction from the slider during opening, as much as 6 inches in extreme cases. New canopies or line sets adjusted to have no slack in the steering lines will begin to fly in brakes as the control lines shrink. To maximize the performance of your canopy it is necessary to understand the construction of the steering lines. The steering lines on a canopy are made of several parts. The upper control lines, usually four or five lines cascade or split at the top of the central control line and attach to the tail. The central control line attaches the upper control lines to the lower control line. The lower control line attaches from the finger-trapped loop (for setting the brakes) at the bottom of the central control line to the toggle. The lower control line is where your rigger can make adjustments. If you do not use your front risers, adjusting steering line length is a fairly simple process. To check your control lines, pull one toggle down an inch or two while watching the tail of the canopy in flight. The tail should not move and the canopy should not turn. If it does, your lower steering lines need to be lengthened. Make small adjustments, no more than an inch at a time. This may require several adjustments. It is better to be an inch too long than an inch too short. Once you find the correct length, have your rigger finger-trap and bar-tack the lower steering line to eliminate the knot next to the toggle which can hang up on the guide ring. Periodically check the steering lines to see if they have shrunk and need to be lengthened again. Micro-line can shrink 4 to 6 inches or more over its life span. Vectran tends not to shrink with wear but is not as durable as Micro-line. If you use your front risers, adjusting steering line length is more complicated. Having enough slack in the lower steering lines on a high performance canopy is more critical to how the canopy will fly. In a front riser turn you are pulling the toggle down a little with the riser and there has to be some slack to prevent pulling down the tail. If the tail of a high performance canopy is pulled down even a little when front risering, the riser pressure will be much higher and the recovery arc (the amount of altitude required to get back under the canopy) will be shortened. To check if the steering line is long enough, clear your airspace, do a full 360 degree front riser turn (keeping the toggles in your hands), and watch the tail of the canopy. As the speed increases, the drag on the control line increases and if there isn’t enough slack, the tail will be pulled down. You need enough slack so that the tail won’t be pulled down while pulling the toggle and the riser down at the maximum speed of the canopy. Again, make small adjustments no more than an inch at a time and have your rigger finger-trap and bar-tack the lower control line once you have them adjusted correctly. With the steering lines correctly set, your canopy will dive longer and faster and you can get the most out of your canopy. Derek

Um, that's lead climbing. Top roping is when the rope goes from the belayer, up to an anchor point and back down to the climber. Top ropes can either be set by rappeling down, or by someone leading the climb and setting it up at the top and removing the protection as they are belayed back down. Derek

Yes, a canopy only 'knows' airspeed, not ground speed. A downwind landing flare should be the same as a no-wind or light wind landing flare. Side note: The reason you don't have to flare as much to land in high winds is because the first part of the flare stops your downward (vertical) speed, and the second part of the flare stops your foward (horizontal) speed. That is what makes swooping possible. With a low ground speed, there is no foward ground speed to stop, and therefore you only need the first part of the flare. Or in slightly less winds, there is a little ground speed, requiring a little flare beyond the initial flare. Usually a slide will be best, similar to a high ground speed tandem landing where you lean back and slide. Derek

Hard Deck What would you different if presented with the same situation on your next skydive? Derek

It is possible that the PD-280 you have been jumping is worn out and doesn't produce much lift for the flare anymore. F-111 canopies stop producing lift for the flare after 300-400 jumps. If that is the case, another, newer, canopy or another DZ if a newer canopy is not available is the only solution. Derek

Something else to think about is that the lines on a PD-280 are long. When you flare, the canopy slows down and your momentum causes you to swing out in front of the canopy. The longer lines of the PD-280 and the weight of the reserve canopy still packed on your back exasperate this. When you actually touch the ground, you have to have your weight over your feet, or you will fall backwards as if someone pulled a chair out from under you. To prevent this, on short final, lean forward against the chest strap in the harness. The more, the better. That way when you flare and are swung forward, your weight will still be over your feet. This sets you up for a better position to either stand up the landing or PLR (Parachute Landing Roll) from. Bottom line is to discuss this with your Instructor(s) you are experienced and have actually seen you land. I would not recommend taking a wrap on the steering lines. This also demonstrates that you should not take advice from "experienced jumpers" other than your Instructors. They mean well, but often cause more harm than good. Derek

No, you can take the written anytime, without any paperwork. Derek

How does not having a working Cypres make a rig unairworthy? Aren't there people who jump without Cypres's all-together? *** FAR Part 105; "(c) If installed, the automatic activation device must be maintained in accordance with manufacturer instructions for that automatic activation device." Derek

My concern about Scotch Guarding a packed rig is if the chemical seeps through the container material and the fre-bag into the reserve fabric. I don't know what would happen to a Scotch Guard soaked reserve and I don't want to find out. It isn't likely, but not a chance I'm willing to take. Derek

If you want to Scotch Guard it, apply it before your rigger puts the canopies in it. Clean the cutaway cables with Ace Pure Silicone Lubricant. Write down the S/N's of everything. Make a note of when your Cypres batteries and maintenance are due. Make a note of when your reserve re-pack is due. Derek

Yes, it is, so what are you suggesting? The current system doesn't seem to be working. Training is the key, but the people that need it, don't seem to be getting it. Maybe it is better said, "Mandatory training is the key." Derek

Wanna buy a VX-60? Just kidding. An "A" license does not arm a jumper with enough knowledge to make good canopy choices, especially if someone they trust is giving them bad advise. I can buy a Lear jet (if I had the money), but I can't legally fly it until I have proven that I am capable and meet certain minimum requirements. Jumpers are buying and flying canopies before they are capable and injuries and fatalities are the result. Wing loading BSR, Blacklisting are two possible solutions to the problem. Allowing your friend to drive drunk because "He is an adult and can make his own choices." Is unacceptable. "I told him not to drive.", is a cop-out. Why can a bar be held accountable if someone gets drunk, drives and kills someone in an accident? USPA has a wind limit of 14 mph for students with a square reserve. I haven't seen anyone post that that is unfair to apply an arbitrary number to the max wind limit, as all students aren't the same. Why? Because it works and make sense, even if it is too high for some students and too low for others. It is a good guideline. Derek

A hypothetical question: I jump a VX-60. I am also an AFF I/E. I think it is possible for me to convince a recently graduated student that my canopy is the canopy for them. "Hey, I'll coach you. You'll be fine, you are a natural." Then sell it to them. If (and when) they are seriously injured or killed under that canopy, should I shoulder any blame? They weren't a student anymore. They signed the waiver, they are an adult, right? Would the, hypothetical, accident have happened under a more suitable beginner canopy? What does flying a too high of performance canopy do to the odds of a new jumper being injured or killed? Finally, who's responsibility is it too keep a newer jumper from buying and flying a canopy that unacceptably increases their chances of being injured or killed under it? Derek

A Certificated Parachute Rigger, without respect to ratings, pack, maintain or alter the main parachute of a dual parachute pack to be used for intentional jumping, per 8300.10, CHP 28, dated 12/20/96. Derek

DJ Associates lists 1 1/4 inch Type III in their catalog. It lists 800 lbs as the tensile and it costs $0.63/yard. Their # is: 479-452-3987. Derek

Good luck! And make sure you are studying for the updated version of the test. Technically, a Master rigger can make any alteration he wishes, with the FAA's approval. Similar to modifying an aircraft, there is an approval procedure for parachute equipment modifications, including submitting drawings, types of materials used, a complete description of the modification, and any data from drop tests. In reality, the gear just gets modified without any paperwork. TB-260 includes a question on page 7 of 9 regarding what a manufacturer's response would be if they find an unauthorized or unapproved alteration on equipment they have manufactured. No, only the manufacturer can change set a mandatory life span or change the life span of a piece of equipment. A rigger can declare a piece of equipment un-airworthy prior to reach it's life span though. Who can make a main canopy isn't really addressed in the FAR's. I think the FAA just assumed that mains would and are only built by established manufacturers. So, yes, anyone can build a main canopy. On the repair question, a Certificated Parachute Rigger, without respect to ratings, pack, maintain or alter the main parachute of a dual parachute pack to be used for intentional jumping, per 8300.10, CHP 28, dated 12/20/96. Derek

'Nit picky' as in pointing out anything that is less than 100% true? FAR Part 105 states: "(§105.49 Foreign parachutists and equipment. (a) No person may conduct a parachute operation, and no pilot in command of an aircraft may allow a parachute operation to be conducted from that aircraft with an unapproved foreign parachute system unless -- (1) The parachute system is worn by a foreign parachutist who is the owner of that system. (2) The parachute system is of a single-harness dual parachute type. (3) The parachute system meets the civil aviation authority requirements of the foreign parachutist's country. (4) All foreign non-approved parachutes deployed by a foreign parachutist during a parachute operation conducted under this section shall be packed as follows -- (i) The main parachute must be packed by the foreign parachutist making the next parachute jump with that parachute, a certificated parachute rigger, or any other person acceptable to the Administrator. (ii) The reserve parachute must be packed in accordance with the foreign parachutist's civil aviation authority requirements, by a certificated parachute rigger, or any other person acceptable to the Administrator." Are you putting the pilot at risk of a FAR violation or are you a 'foreign parachutist'? This is my point, "it is tested far in excess of tso requirements. it greatly exceeds requirements to be certified as a reserve.", is not 100% true. It does not 'greatly exceed requirements to be certified as a reserve'. Again my point was your statement was misleading. The discussion was about sport canopies & pilot chutes, and without specifying the special circumstances, you suggested that the data was pertinent to sport mains & pilot chutes. Only after repeated questions did you disclose that it wasn't a sport main and pilot chute. I haven't seen years of history to back up your claim. I can pint to many injuries and fatalities where a beginner under a high performance main was a factor in the incident. I have flown Alpha's (at 1.99:1, and 2.53:1) and the Space (at 1.44:1). As the recent incident with the low time jumper under the high performance canopy demonstrates, it is unsafe for low time jumpers to fly high performance canopies. After a turn, a Cobalt/Space/Alpha loses more altitude and achieves a higher speed and a greater rate of descent than an equally loaded Sabre, Spectre, Safire2, etc. Therefore a panic turn low to the ground has more potential for injury or death under a Cobalt/Space/Alpha/Stiletto/Crossfire2/Heatwave/etc. Students & beginners make mistakes as part of the learning process. Surviving those mistakes depends on several factors, not the least of which is the canopy thy are flying and the wing loading they are flying it at. I believe Atair, and maybe some other manufacturers, recognize that jumpers tend to stick with a manufacture, usually the manufacturer of their first canopy. Cessna and Piper know this and try very hard to get flight schools to use their trainers. A Flight student that learns in a Cessna 152/172, will most likely purchase a Cessna 172/182, because that is what they are comfortable with. If a canopy manufacturer can get a new jumper to buy their canopy first, and a smaller, higher performance canopy, the buyer will be amazed at the performance and will believe that canopy to be the best canopy made. Especially when all they have to compare it to is student and/or rental canopies. In all fairness, having jumped a Space and owned an Alpha, I do think it is a great canopy. They both opened and flew very well for me. It is a high performance canopy in the Stiletto, or maybe better than the stiletto, class. That being said, I have put a lot of different sizes and types of mains on student's backs in 7 years of teaching skydiving and I would not use a Cobalt/Space/Alpha/Stiletto/Crossfire2/Heatwave/etc as a student canopy. Nor would I recommend one as a first canopy. I loaded it at 1.44:1 They do not have the same turn rate, sensitivity in the flare, maximum speed, altitude loss in a turn, rate of altitude loss in a turn, etc. These are the things that can bite a student or beginner. They will make mistakes, and under a suitable canopy, they will survive to learn from those mistakes. Too many times I have been a first responder to someone that just hammered in and their first words when I get to them are, "Man, that was stupid." Why put a student or beginner under a high performance canopy? With a Sabre 1 or 2, a Safire 1 or 2, or traditional large F-11 canopy, an uneven flare results in a turn rate low enough that the student or beginner can feel the turn and understand that a mistake was made and begin to learn from the mistake and prevent it from happening again. The turn rate is low enough that the landing may still be able to be stood up or at the very least not produce an injury. An uneven flare under a high performance main can produce a turn rate too fast for the student to correct or even realize what happened and can't learn from it and fix it. A high performance canopy flared unevenly can result in being thrown onto their side and possibly result in an injury. Derek

Was there ever any doubt? I thought duct tape held the universe together? "Duct tape is like the force, it has a light side and a dark side and holds the universe together" Derek

I don't think so, because once they reach 'perigee' or even before, they will lose their spinning momentum and begin to tumble. I think it was an accurate test. Derek

I think my post got lost in the other thread and I was hoping for a response; Dan, your profile indicates you jump at the "RANCH" and use an "atair reserve 110 ft²". According to TSO Holders (TSO 23d) , Atair does not hold TSO C23d Authorization. This tells me 2 things, 1) Atair does make a reserve canopy, and 2) you are illegally jumping a non-TSO'd reserve canopy in the U.S. Is this correct? Refering to the Cobalt, -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- it is tested far in excess of tso requirements. it greatly exceeds requirements to be certified as a reserve. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- To include?: Being functionally open within 3 seconds from the moment of pack opening? Being functionally open within 300 feet from the altitude at pack opening? Being functionally open within 2 seconds of breaking away from another canopy descending at less than 20 FPS? All 70 drop tests? What is the Cobalt 65's rate of descent with 182 lbs. suspended weight (a 2.8:1 wingloading)? Not higher than 24 FPS? Below a total velocity of 36 FPS? [deployment configuration, i.e. brakes stowed] 2 drops of a free fall of at least 20 seconds where the user must suffer no significant discomfort from the opening shock and must be able to disengage himself unaided from the harness after landing? Some Cobalt owners have posted that their Cobalt opens unacceptably hard, even following all of Atair's recommendations. Some Cobalt owners have posted that their Cobalt opens very nicely, all the time. I would conclude that nicely opening Cobalts are hit or miss. Some do, some don't. Atair has made some outrageous claims on this forum in the past, claims they could not back up. Anyone considering purchasing a new canopy should understand that manufactures will try to paint the best possible picture of their product and are in the business of making money. Some manufacturers are more reputable than others. Research any gear purchase thoroughly, to include test jumping a product you are considering. A little history; Atair has posted: "something to consider that most people do not realize is that the first shock you feel when deploying a canopy is at line stretch before your canopy is out of the bag. this shock is caused by the pilot chute, not the canopy. if this defination is acceptable as line dump i have quite alot of proof as to it happening both video and datalogged jumps. as the opening sequence is a series of fast shocks a jumper is usually incorect when recounting what happened in the analysis of a jump. i.e. 10 different pilots, 10 jumps, same single canopy, and you will get 10+ different accounts of how it opened. probably none of which match the recorded datalogged sensor data. the most dramatic recorded instance of the above was 29g's at line stretch and then 6.4g peak once the canopy came out of the bag. improperly sized pilots especially at higer speeds can definately rock you harder than you canopy. " Only later, after being questioned, is it explained: "1000# exit weight, 350 sq' main, vector tandem rig, 184mph speed at deployment. scrunchie failed to collapse drogue, line stretch generated 29g's, canopy upon exiting bag generated a max of 6.4 g's stage 1, about 3.5 g's stage 2. " It was not a normal sport rig, but a tandem at high speed with a drogue that failed to collapse. The data used to back up that statement doesn't apply to normal sport rigs. In another thread Atair posted: "so yes our student canopy is considerably more elliptical than many canopies you will see in swoop competitions." To which was asked: "Your student canopy, do you mean the Cobalt?" (The largest Cobalt offered is a 170 sq. ft. and a 'student' is defined, in the USA, as a skydiver without a license, generally less than 20 jumps.) To which they replied: "yes i mean the cobalt and previously the space/alpha." "chart: we have a real world wingloading chart posted on our web site. what i mean by real world is a list of where most of our customers fall into. i.e. begineer 1.2-1.4, intermediate 1.4-1.6 etc... " And clarified later: "Do you recommend putting students under Cobalts at a 1.2 wing loading?" "yes, anyone you would consider safe under a sabre, safire or hornet is equally safe on a cobalt." "Has this been done?" "yes" "Where?" But a Drop Zone where the student equipment included Cobalt 170's (or smaller) was never given. To reply to your post: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- as far as an elliptical design being good for begineers and high experience there is absolutely nothing contradictory about that. you are basing that comment on misconceptions of you think being elliptical means. older elliptical designs had certain negative traits that made them only suitable for higher experience. but the reality that the only thing you can assume by knowing a canopy is elliptical is that it is more efficient, absolutely nothing more. wethre it is a pocket rocket or a student canopy are determined by the sum total of many design variables. the cobalt is not prone to spinning mal, is very stable, very efficient (fly's big), high glide, slow foward speed and high flare at light wing loadings it is imo a superior choice to a saber/safire. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I notice you have changed you term from 'student' to beginner', progress. "imo", from the salesman, not an Instructor. Many Instructors, including me, have a different opinion of the Cobalt as a beginner's canopy. It is not suitable for beginners. I base that opinion upon of years of Instructing. The characteristics the Cobalt demonstrates are not the characteristics of a good student or beginner canopy. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- the alpha has a flawless 6year track record with begineers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I disagree. It does not have a flawless record with beginners. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- the only difference between the space and the alpha : the name and recommended loading. i have pointed this out many times and no one has ever said the space is an unsuitable canopy for begineers but in people still have the knee jerk reaction of thinking an alpha or cobalt could be good for begineers. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Space is unsuitable for beginners. (I have jumped one and was surprised at the performance) Derek Think

That is enforced on a case-by-case basis. I have video of a DZO doing AFF w/o an AFF rating. The RD said, "What do you want me to do, take away a rating he doesn't have?" That RD is now a ND................. Derek

Yes, very realistic. Jumping is not a prerequisite to becoming a rigger. Check out; So, you want to be a rigger? and if you have any questions, just ask

That makes perfect sense, I wasn't thinking of it that way. The housing is trying to twist back into it's 'natural' position placing more force on the locking loop, increasing pull forces. I agree, anything to keep cutaway forces as low as possible is a good thing. Thanks Bill

Excellent question, and, yes, it is a paradox. USPA VCIP program has only inspected one DZ, and it failed. USPA has no authority to regulate skydiving, only the FAA does. Unfortunately the FAA rarely checks up on DZ's and even then usually don't know what to look for. They tend to concentrate on the jumpships because that is where their experience lies. A DZ can be a USPA GM DZ, follow the FAR's and break the BSR's and nothing will happen to it, as long as they send in their GM check once a year. To the first jump student, "We are a USPA Drop Zone and follow all the Basic Safety Recommendations" carries weight. In reality it means absolutely nothing. Derek