Hooknswoop

What you probably saw, was someone, with their brakes released, turn with the front risers, plane out with the rear risers (keeping the toggles int heir hands the entire time), then release the rear risers and finish the flare with the toggles. The same manuever attempted with the brakes stowed and the toggles not in the jumpers hands would be extremely unusual and I have never heard of it being done. Derek

Right, but the 22 lbs. limit is from a hanging harness, not from a spinning main with the risers twisted. In real life there is nothing limiting the cutaway handle pull forces to 22 lbs. There have been numerous hard/impossible cutaway incidents posted here on dz.com. Derek

Did you try REI ? Derek

I agree. Front risers in turbulence is a bad idea. Derek

4 inches by 1 inch of pile/loop and 1 inche by 1 inch of hook. I also use 2 squares of 1 inch by 1 inch to make the loop that goes aroung the reserve flap. Gives it another way to release, for a total of 3. Derek

Right, a small patch of Velcro that was recently mated will not support a jumper's weight, or more if they are pulling any "G's". I tested this exact scenario with an intentional cutaway. Also, most cutaways happen before the slider is stowed. Not all, but most. Derek

This applies to Cutaway handles also. This applies to cutaway pillows as well, except the pull forces can top the 20-30 lbs. of a reserve pillow. I agree, if you have begun the deployment with sufficent altitude. As should the cutaway handle in the event there is a problem without sufficent altitude to take your time finding and pulling it. Such as mini-risers, small, high performance canopies, small reserves, exceeding max speeds for the reserve canopy, etc? Banning reserve pillow handles and ignoring cutaway pillows is silly. Has there ever been a case of an impossible cutaway in Finland? Derek

They were grandfathered because they already had a D license. If they had 200 jumps and no D license, they now need 500 jumps to get the same license they were qualified for before the change. And no criteria was used to determine that he was qualified. There was no standard, now there is. Just as the guy with 400 jumps and no D license just became unqualified for a D license, even though they were before the change. I didn't say that. A national standard is better than no standard at all. It shouldn't be a difficult rating to get for him and he may learn something. Another alternative is get the S & TA to waiver him. If the S &TA won't waiver him then either he shouldn't be waivered or the S &TA should be replaced with one that can do the job. Derek

Then why are they blaming a pillow reserve handle? This reserve pillow banning isn't making any sense to me. Derek

Given the number of people Ski Patrol are taking down the slopes everyday and the number of times other boarder/skiers have hit either Kelli or I (from behind, we had the right of way), I agree, skydiving is safer than skiing or snowboarding. Derek

A bit tighter than the 135, but should fit fine. Derek

What size Javelin are we talking about? Derek

Since there is no Velcro on a D ring, you can’t peel the Velcro. Even if I don’t peel the Velcro, that doesn’t change the fact that it much easier to pull a pillow handle if you peel the Velcro. If not peeling the Velcro works for you as it does me, then no worries. Until a jumper is sure, they should err to the side of safety and plan on peeling. It would have been better to not be in free fall at 500 feet. Of course it wouldn’t have been better to peel it, unless it prevented you from pulling the handle in a timely manner, then it definitely would have been better to peel it. This thread was started with a question about pull force and pillow handles. My points are, 1) It is easier to pull a pillow handle if the Velcro is peeled first and this can be the difference between pulling the handle and not pulling the handle. Is it mandatory to peel first? No. 2) Pulling a pillow handle, be it a cutaway or reserve pillow, takes the same amount of force. If one handle or one side of the harness has more worn Velcro than the other, it can make that side easier to pull. 3) Banning reserve pillows without banning cutaway pillows because someone wasn’t able to pull a reserve pillow makes no sense. Combined with a statement in another thread that the jumper may have been unconscious, makes it even more ludricious. 4) Soft reserve handles have pros and cons. Deciding weather or not a soft reserve handle is appropriate for you depends on you, your gear, the types of jumps you make, and what you are comfortable with. Derek

By the same criteria used to determine that 200 jumps is no longer enough for a D license. The sport is evolving, some good, some not so good. Formal training for coaches is a good thing. The sport is becomming more commercialized. Things that used to be free now have a fee attached. There was a thread a while back about an S &TA charging to sign off licenses. That is the direction the sport is going. Derek

Not possibly. There is the same amount of Velcro on a cutaway pillow as there is on a reserve pillow, hence the same amount of force to peel either handle. Right, higher for either the cutaway pillow or a reserve pillow, hence the peel first, then pull. Of course not, not for a metal reserve handle. But do you teach them to peel the cutaway handle before pulling it? It doesn’t take a huge leap of imagination for an experienced jumper, initially trained to peel their cutaway pillow before pulling it, to figure out they should peel their reserve pillow (if they have one) before pulling it, for the same reasons. I have several cutaway and reserve rides using nothing but pillows and haven’t peeled a handle either. That doesn’t mean that peeling the handle can’t make the difference between being able to pull the handle or not. When combined with twisted risers and no riser inserts, peeling the handle may make the difference between being able to cutaway or not. For a tight reserve, a not so strong jumper may have a difficult time pulling a reserve pillow without peeling it first. If you don’t need to peel it, great, but it is better to peel it and not need to than not peel it and need to, for either a cutaway handle or a reserve handle. Derek

I completely agree with that. How much does Dacron line stretch? How much of an impact does that make on opening with 10-15 feet times 12 lines (not counting B and D lines)? Along the same lines (pun inteneded), I wouldn't bungee jump with Dacron line either. Derek

Removing the pillow handle from the Velcro, either cutaway or reserve requires the same amount of force. The reserve at that point is limited to 22 lbs. + seal. The cutaway handle is limited to 22 lbs. for TSO testing, which does not include spinning line twists with the excess cutaway cables included in the twists. This means cutaway forces can be much higher than reserve rip cord forces, after the Velcro is pulled. Yes, in the FJC, when they are using a pillow cutaway handle. For any pillow handle, the Velcro should be peeled. Sunrise rigging may have omitted peeling the Velcro before pulling the reserve handle not thinking about pillow reserve handles. Derek

For most 9-cell moderatly+ loaded canopies, releasing the brakes, pulling down a bit on the rear risers and tucking up as small as you can to reduce drag will give you the most distance from a long, upwind spot. Derek

In the U.S., FAR Part 105 states "(c) If installed, the automatic activation device must be maintained in accordance with manufacturer instructions for that automatic activation device." From the Vigil’s FAQ’s: Is annual rigger check necessary? I thought the functionality do not have to be checked by riggers? So why should the riggers buy this module and software? The rigger can buy an IR bi-directional communications module and associated software. This costs 521 EUR. It is made for riggers to check the functionalities. This depends local legislation if it is necessary. We advise to do an annual check I read that a rigger should check the Vigil yearly. Is this mandatory or is it OK to continue to jump when the unit shows no signs of problems? Riggers can do an annual check in a pressure chamber and results can be downloaded through the IR port and a report can be printed. No need to return the unit to a factory. Most countries have an annual inspection program for parachutes. It can be done together with these tests. My question is, does the annual check utilizing the “module and software” part of the “manufacturer instructions” for the Vigil AAD? Airtec is very specific in regards to Cypres battery replacement and unit maintenance requirements, which makes them mandatory in the U.S. per the FAR’s. I personally would recommend against anyone buying a Vigil until after this issue is sorted out and they know if either their rigger would have to buy the module and software, or if the rigger doesn’t want to purchase the equipment, force the owner to send the unit back to Vigil annually. Derek

Are they banning pillow cutaway handles also? A pillow cutaway handle requires the same amount of force to peel, but isn't limited to 22 lbs (in the U.S.) to pull like the reserve handle is. Derek

RWS also has a suggested brake line stowage page on their web page. Not stowing the excess, means it is free to snag on anything it comes across. Also, if the riser cover does come open, it is less likely to cause a problem if your excess brake line is stowed. Stowing keeps it under control until released. Derek

2-1; E-6 only specifys that pre- A license students must jump with a coach when engaging in training for group free fallls, it doesn't say they can't jump solo before getting an A license. Derek

I think it depends on the canopy. I jumped an FX w/o the brakes set and it snivelled for 1000+ feet. The faster the canopy flys, the more internal pressure it has, which helps it resist collapsing, and the more lift it produces, which helps it resist collapsing. The flip side is if it does collapse, you are going faster near the ground and have less time to fix it and you may hit harder if you can’t get it re-inflated prior to impact. More speed may make turbulence feel more intense, but that is only because you are flying through the updrafts and downdrafts (or rotors) faster. Kinda like hitting a speed bump slow or fast. Hitting it fast makes it feel harder, but the speed bump is the same size weather you hit it slow or fast. So the best method to keep the canopy from collapsing is the worst thing to do if those efforts fail and it does collapse. The worst thing to do in turbulence is go to deep brakes. This lowers the internal pressure of the canopy and you are more susceptible to the canopy collapsing. You are flying slower, which is good if the canopy does collapse, but it may not have collapsed in the first place if you have been at full flight. My plan for handling turbulence is full flight until it actually begins to fold up. Then what ever is necessary to get it to re-inflate, keep it flying straight, and keep it over my head. Of course the best plan is too learn where turbulence can most likely be found and avoid those areas or don’t jump in turbulent, gusty conditions. Derek

If an S & TA is unwilling to waiver anything, even if a waiver is appropriate, then they should be removed as S &TA and new new S &TA appointed. If they are not able or willing to do the job, then don't do it. Derek

That is dumb for a number of reasons. 1) Like you pointed out, if the brakes don't release it is better to find out when you have the altitude to do something about it. 2) Leaving the brakes stowed, then getting on the front risers is like hitting the brakes and gas at the same time, counter productive. More drag, shorter recovery arc, causes the canopy to 'buck', less speed, etc. 3) Not having the toggles in your hands while front risering to land creates the possibility of not find the toggles in time to flare. Suggest to them that they NOT do this. Derek