Hooknswoop

Recording pull force test results after packing the rig might protect me from liability, but I am not positive it would. I cannot quote you a case. I don't want to be the first. Derek

The handle I saw recently wasn't that old. If the material has been changed, then the problem has been addressed. But I don't have to sign a waiver to get hip rings, a Skyhook, or stainless steel hardware. This is the only option that I know of that requires a waiver. Shouldn't this be public knowledge, even in the manual? If I could feel confident that I was protected from liability and that the owner could not tighten up the closing loops on their own without disturbing the seal, then I would reconsider my policy of not packing them. Derek

Right, but on a Javelin, if the pull force is too high, it is the rigger's fault, as the only way to increase the pull force on a Javelin is to replace the the closing loop with a shorter one. This means the seal would be broken and the rigger would not be held responsible. I can test the pull force before giving the rig back. It would also mean it was intentional. The seal need not be disturbed on a Racer to tighten the closing loops, and can be done unintentionally by the user. I have no way to protect myself from this. I do not feel protected from liability if the owner overtightens their closing loops on a Racer. I do feel protected if someone attempts to tighten their closing loop on other rigs (except the Reflex). Derek

I agree with both your posts completely. Thanks for taking the time to run through this stuff. Derek

I think it is a tactic by Jumpshack to discourage the use of their older freebag with the safety stow. I don't understand why Jump Shack is reverting back to rubber bands. The difference is two-fold. 1) If the pop top is overtightened by the owner, I will still be held accountable as I have zero defense except, "I didn't overtighten it." I don't know how well that would hold up against the FAA saying, "Your seal is on it, you signed the card, you tightened it, and there is no record of anyone else re-tightening it." And of course, the lolon cables being too soft (not the batch that was cracking), which still hasn't been addressed. Derek

Then I would have an issue with the DZ for not sending someone to come get me since the JM (either Coach or Instructor) must have known you landed off. Derek

45 minutes under canopy? Even a Manta 288 shouldn’t take that long to come down from 13,000 feet. [288 FPM] 45 minutes in a harness, especially not a custom fitted harness, would be very uncomfortable (I’ve done it). Did any other loads go up while you were under canopy? Did you jump with anyone else? Your profile doesn’t list a USPA license. Do you have a license? If yes, which one? (A, B, C, and/or D) What was the cause of the pre-mature deployment? Who spotted? Winds don't affect your decent rate. Your buddy came looking for you in a car, right? That's one car. Why would the DZ send another? Derek

The teflon cables are too soft, not just eh one batch that was cracking. Apparently you have to sign a waiver to still get the old style bag. I am definately not a lazy rigger. I don't think they are that much harder than any other rig. just like any rig, once you learn the tricks, it as easy as the rest. My issue (overtightening of the closing loops by another rigger or the owner) hasn't been addressed. Derek

Cool, thanks. Nope, that's why I asked you. I figured you could come up with something I could work with. I do know it makes a difference. It makes a huge difference under my 60. I'll work w/ 6% and see what I come up with. Night, Derek

Excellent point, release your brakes high enough to deal with a brake problem. Derek

Long Spot Techniques There are several things you can do to increase the chances of getting back to the landing area from a long spot. If you are up-wind of the landing area, as soon as safely possible, turn using you rear risers to face the landing area. Turn quickly, but as flat as possible to reduce the amount of altitude lost in the turn. Don’t make a long spot worse by flying in the wrong direction while stowing your slider, loosing your chest strap, etc. Different canopies and even different wing loading react differently to techniques for increasing the glide ratio, allowing you to cover the most ground and keeping you in the higher upper tailwinds longer. One method is to simply leave the brakes stowed, which allows the canopy to “float”, and steer with rear riser input or harness steer. Another is to release the brakes and pull down slightly on the rear risers, flatting the canopy and getting a longer glide. Sometimes, canopies will glide the most with the brakes set and the rear risers pulled down an inch or two. Experiment and determine what works best for your canopy and wing loading. Try to use harness steering to keep the canopy pointed back to the landing area as any toggle input adds drag and decrease you chances of making it back to the landing area. Reducing drag by pulling your legs up in front of you and collapsing your slider will help you cover more ground back to the drop zone. The faster the canopy, the more this will help. This is also where a collapsible pilot chute can help. If you are downwind of the landing area, the amount of headwind will affect which technique will yield the best results. Given the following figures for a hypothetical canopy's performance in braked, full-flight, and front risered flight, the best technique for different headwinds can be calculated. Example 1: Zero Wind Rear Risers (RR): Full flight (FF): Front risers (FR): Airspeed = 25 mph (2200 fpm) Airspeed = 35 mph (3080 fpm) Airspeed = 45 mph (3960 fpm) Ground speed = 25 mph Ground speed = 35 mph Ground peed = 45 mph Rate of descent = 750 fpm Rate of descent = 1250 fpm Rate of descent = 2000 fpm Time of flight = 2.67 minutes Time of flight = 1.60 minutes Time of flight = 1.0 minutes Glide ratio: 2.9:1 Glide ratio: 2.5:1 Glide ratio: 2:1 Ground distance covered = 5874 ft Ground distance covered = 4928 ft Ground distance covered = 3960 ft For Example 1, Rear risers (RR) yields the best glide ratio and the most ground distance covered. Example 2: 5 mph Headwind Rear Risers (RR): Full flight (FF): Front risers (FR): Airspeed = 25 mph (2200 fpm) Airspeed = 35 mph (3080 fpm) Airspeed = 45 mph (3960 fpm) Ground speed = 20 mph Ground peed = 30 mph Ground speed = 40 mph Rate of descent = 750 fpm Rate of descent = 1250 fpm Rate of descent = 2000 fpm Time of flight = 2.67 minutes Time of flight = 1.60 minutes Time of flight = 1.0 minutes Ground distance covered = 4699 ft Ground distance covered = 4224 ft Ground distance covered = 3520 ft In Example 2, with a 5 mph headwind, the best technique is still rear risers, but with 1175 ft less ground distance covered. Example 3: 10 mph Headwind Rear Risers (RR): Full flight (FF): Front risers (FR): Airspeed = 25 mph (2200 fpm) Airspeed = 35 mph (3080 fpm) Airspeed = 45 mph (3960 fpm) Ground speed = 15 mph Ground peed = 25 mph Ground speed = 35 mph Rate of descent = 750 fpm Rate of descent = 1250 fpm Rate of descent = 2000 fpm Time of flight = 2.67 minutes Time of flight = 1.60 minutes Time of flight = 1.0 minutes Ground distance covered = 3524 ft Ground distance covered = 3520 ft Ground distance covered = 3080 ft In Example 3, rear risers and full flight produce almost the same result in ground distance covered. Example 4: 15 mph Headwind Rear Risers (RR): Full flight (FF): Front risers (FR): Airspeed = 25 mph (2200 fpm) Airspeed = 35 mph (3080 fpm) Airspeed = 45 mph (3960 fpm) Ground speed = 10 mph Ground peed = 20 mph Ground speed = 30 mph Rate of descent = 750 fpm Rate of descent = 1250 fpm Rate of descent = 2000 fpm Time of flight = 2.67 minutes Time of flight = 1.60 minutes Time of flight = 1.0 minutes Ground distance covered = 2350 ft Ground distance covered = 2816 ft Ground distance covered = 2640 ft In Example 3, full flight moves up to the best technique, front risers moves up to the second best technique and rear risers goes from the best to worst technique. Example 5: 20 mph Headwind Rear Risers (RR): Full flight (FF): Front risers (FR): Airspeed = 25 mph (2200 fpm) Airspeed = 35 mph (3080 fpm) Airspeed = 45 mph (3960 fpm) Ground speed = 5 mph Ground peed = 15 mph Ground speed = 25 mph Rate of descent = 750 fpm Rate of descent = 1250 fpm Rate of descent = 2000 fpm Time of flight = 2.67 minutes Time of flight = 1.60 minutes Time of flight = 1.0 minutes Ground distance covered = 1175 ft Ground distance covered = 2112 ft Ground distance covered = 2200 ft In example 5, front risers moves up to best technique and full flight drops back to second best technique. * Information based on a hypothetical canopy with the following performance: On rear risers, Airspeed = 25 mph and rate of descent = 750 fpm. In full flight, airspeed = 35 mph, and rate of descent = 1250 fpm. On front risers, airspeed = 45 mph and rate of descent = 2000 fpm. As the headwinds increase, the best to worst techniques do not change after a 20-mph headwind, for this hypothetical canopy. Which technique that will work best for the amount of headwinds you are fighting depending on your canopy. Experiment in controlled conditions to determine which technique qorks best for you and your canopy. Generally wind speed decreases with altitude from the friction of the earth's surface. Remember that landing at the drop zone is secondary to landing safely. If you are not absolutely sure you will make it back to the drop zone, select a safe alternate landing zone early and plan your approach. Jumpers pushing the limits of a long spot, determined to land back at the drop zone has been a factor in numerous landing injuries. When in doubt, land out. Derek

“Sherman did not want to put 2 inch block letters on his nice, new piggyback design so he certified his harness to the 5000 lb. high speed category, most of the other guys followed suit.” And so is the Racer………… Both are TSO’d to C23B From: Should Harnesses Be "Fail Safe": "They both failed in the area of 2500 lbs. to 3000 lbs. load. Bill (Booth) has indicated that this is about the same result he has achieved and we would venture to say that this is true for just about every harness out there." “The first TSO standard was written with two levels of security, one for low speed 3000 lbs, and one for high speed 5000 lbs. The low speed required 2" Block letters indicating restriction to use in aircraft under 150 MPH. Sherman did not want to put 2 inch block letters on his nice, new piggyback design so he certified his harness to the 5000 lb. high speed category, most of the other guys followed suit.” From Poynters: “In July 1983, the factory announced that Pioneer’s Tri-Conical canopy was not compatible with the SST/Racer. Any installed Tri-Connicals should be removed. The reason given was that the canopy can produce a secondary opening shock which may exceed the Standard Category design limitations of the harness/container assembly.” Also from Poynter’s: “In 1983, Para-Flite began building the 400 sq ft seven-cell, span-wise constructed canopy for Steve Snyder’s propeller-driven ParaPlane. In the same year, the company developed the Safety Stow, an improvement to ram-air reserve parachute deployment bags. The Safety Stow provides at least double the bag locking strength and it makes bag locks less likely.” Derek

Better TSO and harness than most other rigs? Can you explain how you came to those conclusions? Derek

45 minutes under canopy? Even a Manta 288 shouldn’t take that long to come down from 13,000 feet. [288 FPM] 45 minutes in a harness, especially not a custom fitted harness, would be very uncomfortable (I’ve done it). Did any other loads go up while you were under canopy? Why were you unable to land at the DZ? Did you jump with anyone else? Your profile doesn’t list a USPA license. Do you have a license? If yes, which one? (A, B, C, and/or D) What was the cause of the pre-mature deployment? Derek

Of course, but the cable wasn’t that old and I haven’t seen the same issues with lolon cutaway cables. Which is my point, the red coating is too soft. Which rig do you think is tamper resistant. Any rig can be made to total in less than five minutes in a way that is undetectable from the outside. The scenario that bothers me about Racers and Reflex’s is if the pop top loosens and the owner decides to tighten it back down, they could over tighten it making for a too high pull force. If they have a problem, it is still the rigger’s seal on the rig and they get blamed for the too high pull force. I can’t protect myself against that, so I don’t pack them. I pop a lot of reserves and a lot of them have the reserve PC go to the end of the bridle, after going through/past flaps. If you can get a reserve PC to go to the end of the bridle and have it completely protected from snagging anything before launch (internal PC), that negates any advantages of an exposed PC. With the older free bags with grommets, and the new ones without (?), the rubber bands still do not last as long as a safety stow. Because there hasn’t been a problem yet does not mean there won’t be. I have opened pilot rigs that have been packed for a while and the rubber bands are so degraded, they break with very little force (a couple of pounds or less), or are already broken. They don’t use an exposed reserve PC, nor are the pins on the jumper’s back and the closing loops cannot be tightened without opening the reserve container. It is a very different reserve system. Derek

You should be able to find/download the manual for it here: Army Manuals Derek

Thanks Bill. I knew there was a reason that they opened easily in the event of a total, just couldn't think of it. Now I don't have to re-pack my reserve. Derek

What would estimate the increase in speed is and decrease in rate of descent is? Derek

I recently saw a red cutaway cable(s) that was very 'bumpy'. The cables were not smooth, which would increase cutaway forces. No rig is tamper resistant. The pull forces on pop-top rigs can be dramatically increased by over tighterning the closing loop from the outside, which does not break the seal and cannot be otherwise detected. That is my biggest hang up with Racers and Reflex's. They can be accidently over tightened by the owner or another well-meaning rigger. Unfortunately the rigger that packed it will still be held accountable for too high of a reserve pull force if there is a problem. I don't think a reserve PC having to go past flaps makes a reserve deployment any slower. I think a bigger factor is reserve size because the reserve PC doesn't get any larger as the reserve gets heavier. A pop top reserve with a PD-106R would have a faster deployment than a non-pop top reserve with a PD-218R and if the reserves were switch (and containers appropriately sized) the opposite would be true. As long as the PC gets into the airstream, it makes little difference if it went past a flap or not. PC drag also makes a difference. As long as the locking stows stay put until line stretch, normal opening. The jury is still out of rubber bands vs. safety stow for reserve free-bags. We started out with rubber bands until Para Flite introduced the safety stow in the 80's. I am curious as to the driving force behind Jumpshack's decision to return to rubber bads for free bags. It also brings up those reserves out there that do not adhere to a 120-day re-pack cycle and the decomposing of the rubber bands. I don't know if the grommets on a Racer free-bag are nickle plated, but if they are not, rubber reacts with the brass. Racers work and work well, but I have reservations about them. Derek

Get small. Tuck your legs up and bring your arms in, qnything to reduce drag. The faster you are going (airspeed) the bigger a difference this makes. The only other thing you can do is sacrafice altitude (you'll descend faster) by pulling down both front risers. I wouldn't recommend this in turbulence. If you have plenty of altitude, like 3,000 feet, it might be better to turn, run with the wind and find a better landing area besides the DZ. Trying to make it back in marginal conditions has been a factor in a number of injuries and fatalities. Derek

BASE is radically different from skydiving. The risks of getting caught can be mittigated with care. Thanks, Derek

I don't know to be honest. When I get into something I tend to REALLY get into it. I will take a hard look at something before I do though. I recently talked to a guy about paragliding. He wanteed me to do a tandem. I've done enough tandems. He was also talking about $3,000.00 just to get certified. Derek

Yes, I still love jumping, but at some point all the other crap out weighs the actual jumping. Do 10 jumps, for me that is 10 rides to altitude, 6 minutes of free-fall and anout 12 minutes under canopy. The rest of time, I'm hanging out at the DZ. DZ.com is very different from the social sceen at a DZ. Ya, I'll miss jmping, but I can't go out once a month and do a hop and hop w/ my current canopy. It wouldn't be smart. I am not going to spend $1400.00 for a new main to jump it 10-15 times a year. I should have a bigger reserve if I was only going to jump 10-15 times a year, do that's another $800.00. I would need another container......... I don't want to send USPA $49.00 to jump once a month. It simply isn't worth what I would have to spend to jump a little. I have been thinking about gettig into BASE hard core, but that is stll up in the air. That is another $1700.00 investment. Derek

Very good question, I hadn't ever really thought of that. I have had one reserve deployment on my Micron (it has the same type of riser covers where the main risers need to be on top of the inside flap) after releasing my main, so the covers were already open. I'll do some tests with a spring scale and see how hard it is to get the covers to open by the reserve risers with the main risers still in place and closed. I don't think this has ever come before because it hasn't been an issue before. It would be good to hear from a manufacturer about this though. (It would save me from unpacking my reserve). Derek

8 1/2 years. Derek