Hooknswoop

"How do we fix the problem?" -That is the basic question. You can post your answer(s) to that question here. Part of the problem or part of the solution............ Derek

Where are all the people that were saying that the letter was a bad idea? Surely they must have a better idea? Derek

1) There is a problem with people being injured/killled under good canopies. 2) The current system of common sense, good judgement and S & TS's is what has allowed this problem to develop and is not fixing it. 3) Some DZ's are enacting very restrictive, no exceptions, policies towards wing loading and experience. 4) A letter was published in this months Parachutist, suggesting a possible solution to the problem. 5) Some people feel this suggested solution is not a good solution. Does ANYONE have an alternate (better) solution to fix this problem? Derek

That sioounds like it is close enough that the seam will have to unstitched in order to patch it. Derek

They don't care how good of a skydiver you are. Keep your mouth shut and hero-worship the cadre and you'll be fine. You are being evaulated 24-7, do not forget that. Derek

Un-stich the rib from the top or bottom skin if it is too close to the seam and patch it as if the cross port wasn't there. Then re-cut the cross-port with a hot-knife (cutting the excess material frmo the patch )and re-sew to the top/bottom skin. A lot of work, but the only way. BTW-do not use rip-stop tape to fix it. The adhesive is acidic and will eventually cause the entire are to fail. Derek

Yep, seen it happen a few times. Derek

I knew it was a lot easier to trash other's ideas than to come up with ideas, but I never realized it was this easy. Anyone else have any ideas on a solution to the growing number canopy related injuries and fatalities? Derek

That clearly isn't working, sorry. Any other ideas? Derek

Get it fixed, it will get worse. Derek

What do you think the 'bull's-eye' is then? How do suggest this be accomplished? Derek

That would help a lot. But the canopy coaching should not stop at 25 jumps. There is so much that needs to be learned after ISP for canopy skills that isn't being taught/learned. Derek

We know you do. You don't like our solution. OK, what's yours? Derek

That is the current system. It isn't working. We have put together what we think will make a difference. I haven't seen anyone put forth another solution. I did. Derek

***common sense and proactive participation. no one jumps in a vacuum.*** Great. How? It isn't being done now. What is your solution? Once again, I hear a lot of nay sayers and reasons why they think it won't work. What I am not hearing is any alternative solutions. Derek

I watched several people land, standing up, with only rear risers at the Eloy X-mas boogie. I've landed several times with only rear risers. Not a big deal. Bottom line- the current system that is supposed to educate jumpers and prevent them from jumping canopies they shouldn't be jumping doesn't work. The problem is getting worse. I do not see any other solution. "Educate, not regualte" Great. How? "Regulations are bad" Anarchy is worse. I hear lots of whining but no alternate solutions to the problem. Derek

Why do you feel the minimum pull altitudes BSR is OK, but the WL idea isn't? Anyone can say an idea is stupid, that is not helpful, nor will you convince many people with that argument. Derek

That does depend on the DZ. When I was an S & TA, I had the DZO override my decision to ground a jumper...... So that they get the education and training they need. Derek

I have to ask, are you against minimum pull altitudes, AAD's for students, 100-hour aircraft inspections, required pilot's licenses, rigger licenses, 120-re-pack requirements, etc? Derek

RSL’s are not perfect. Your statement, “I challenge anyone to find a single, documented example of where a properly installed RSL did its job and caused an injury or fatality”, attempts to give the impression that they are infallible. They are not and have caused fatalities. Having said that, it is absolutely true that RSL’s have saved more lives than they have taken, (25 to 4, USPA’s statistics). Stating that reserves do not deploy better when the jumper is stable is mis-leading. Reserves do not deploy better when the jumper is on their back, spinning like a helicopter’s main rotor. Case in point: “The rapid deployment of the reserve via the RSL resulted in his capturing the reserve pilot chute on his right arm. One report indicates the reserve lines also entangled with his neck. The reserve never cleared the freebag.” Slightly head high or dropping a shoulder so as to launch the reserve PC into clean air and avoid the risk of the PC being caught in the jumper’s burble is not unstable. RSL’s have negative traits. If a jumper has a pre-mature deployment at altitude and a malfunction, they are unable to take any sort of delay prior to reserve activation. Finding the little red/yellow tab during a malfunction would be difficult at best and adding that step complicates emergency procedures. If a jumper is involved in a canopy collision and entanglement with sufficient altitude to cutaway, fall clear of the entanglement prior to reserve activation, that possibility is removed by an RSL. Again, finding a little red/yellow tab after a canopy collision would be difficult at best, complicates emergency procedures, and uses valuable time/altitude. After a malfunction, there is a risk of entanglement with the reserve system activated by a RSL. If, on containers with 2 RSL/ripcord guide rings, the pin is in the guide rings when the RSL pulls, it is possible to tow the main canopy as the reserve is deployed into, risking a main-reserve entanglement. This has happened, but fortunately the rings were ripped off the reserve flap and the entanglement was avoided. RSL’s have positive traits. If the jumper is unable to deploy the reserve after a cutaway, the RSL will deploy the reserve (good reason for an AAD). If the jumper loses altitude awareness and cuts away very low and then fails to pull the reserve immediately, the RSL will activate the reserve quickly. (By the way, it is possible to beat the RSL by either pulling the reserve slightly before or at the same time as the cutaway handle.) If the jumper is unable to locate the reserve handle after a cutaway, the RSL will activate the reserve. RSL’s are not perfect. The Skyhook from RWS has addressed most of the negative aspects of RSL’s, making the chances of an Skyhook caused fatality almost impossible. I think that more focus needs to be placed on reducing the causes of incidents where RSL’s saved the jumper, i.e. emergency procedures, not exceeding personal limits, etc. Derek

A uniform system would eliminate the hodge-podge of policies that more and more DZ are enacting, which are usually very restrictive (no one over 1.5:1, and only 1.5:1 if you have 500+ jumps, no exceptions at one DZ). Derek

"§65.129 Performance standards. (e) Pack, maintain, or alter a parachute in any manner that deviates from procedures approved by the Administrator or the manufacturer of the parachute; or " Derek

"§105.43 Use of single-harness, dual-parachute systems. (c) If installed, the automatic activation device must be maintained in accordance with manufacturer instructions for that automatic activation device." "§65.129 Performance standards. (f) Exercise the privileges of his certificate and type rating unless he understands the current manufacturer's instructions for the operation involved and has -- " From AC-65-5B: "If an FAA inspector gives the oral and practical tests, the necessary facilities and equipment must be furnished or arranged for by the applicant. The applicant will be expected to furnish: (1) a smooth-top table, at least 3 feet wide by 40 feet long, (2) provisions for drying and airing parachutes, (3) manufacturer's instructions, and the tools and equipment used to pack and maintain the types of parachutes for which a rating is sought, and (4) adequate housing facilities to perform the duties of a parachute rigger and to protect the tools and equipment. At least one approved parachute of each type for which a rating is sought must be available for the oral and practical tests." Derek

I have caught dozens of mis-routed chest straps. At LP 2002, I caught the same guy twice. It happens. Derek

"9/30/01 Opelika, AL DMAL 48 3000+ Yes / Yes Description: Due to a hard opening, this jumper broke one of the D lines on his canopy, a 230 Rascal. it went into a spin, so he cut it away. The rapid deployment of the reserve via the RSL resulted in his capturing the reserve pilot chute on his right arm. One report indicates the reserve lines also entangled with his neck. The reserve never cleared the freebag. He was found dead at the scene. A second report from someone involved with the investigation reports that the RSL had nothing to do with it; I await further details. Lessons: RSL's are a mixed blessing. For novice jumpers, they provide insurance against failure to pull the reserve after a cutaway, a relatively frequent occurrence in the pre-CYPRES past. This incident may illustrate the downside of an RSL." "7/12/00 Elsinore, CA DMAL 27 few... Yes/Yes Description: The Navy was at Elsinore training Seals; they had their own instructors and their own equipment. At the time of this report, no detailed analysis of the rig has yet been made. This report is based on preliminary examinations and eyewitness accounts. The student ( training under the Navy's equivalent of AFF) deployed his main normally at around 4500 feet. During the main deployment the RSL somehow deployed his reserve which then entangled in the main. Someone supposedly had seen that his main was square and apparently flyable while the reserve was completely fouled and entangled in his main lines. No one directly witnessed the incident while the student was between 4000 and 2500 feet. Somewhere during that interval the student apparently cutaway his main which then collapsed and remained entangled with his fouled reserve. It was believed that if he had not cutaway, he may have been able to land relatively safely on his main. The reserve was apparently NOT deployed by his CYPRES: the preliminary examination revealed a kink in the reserve ripcord where the RSL must have pulled against it while it was still under tension from the closing loop. As soon as the rig is released by the coroner more detailed examinations are going to happen by the DZO, the USPA, the rig manufacturer and the Navy. It is unknown at this time what pulled the RSL, it may have been improperly routed and was pulled on line stretch, or it may have been caught by a toggle. It is also unknown if this type of malfunction is particular to this type of rig or is an industry-wide concern. The Navy has stood down their training and grounded all of their equipment until more is known about the true cause of the incident. Lessons: Dual canopy out malfunctions are nasty. Discuss appropriate procedures with a local instructor. Cutting away from an inflated main when the reserve fouled is not a recommended course of action." "6/22/97 Umatilla, Florida MAL? 42 7500+ (3000+ tandems) Yes?/Yes Description: At the end of a normal tandem skydiver, the student pulled the ripcord at about 5500 feet. The left main riser broke, which in turn activated the reserve static line lanyard (RSL). The RSL immediately pulled the reserve ripcord cables while the right-hand main riser was still attached. The reserve pilot chute and free-bag cleared, but the reserve canopy entangled with the spinning main. The main was then cut away, but failed to clear the reserve. The student survived the landing, the JM did not. The Master 425 main was equipped Dacron with suspension lines. The type VII risers were manufactured in May 1996 and had the new heavy duty 3-rings. The rings were properly positioned during drogue fall, and appeared normal. The type VII webbing broke about 1" above the lower end; the type IV holding the small ring broke just below the grommet. Neither of the two rings from the left riser were recovered, nor was the cutaway handle or the reserve ripcord. All equipment was less than three years old and in good condition. Instructor and student total weight was about 380 pounds. Lessons: Perhaps a defective riser?" RSL's are not perfect. Derek