dudeman17

So who's the new suspect? (I'm not on f-book, so I can't read about it there.)

I remember when this happened. We got a laugh out of it because it was warranted. Vincent was being a media hound, and burned a few sites. Definitely post the video.

I'm guessing that you just mistakenly clicked 'quote' on the wrong post, but congratulate Nick, not me, haha! (And my apology to you was for the 'social media' type post.)

Congratulations! Looks like you did a great job and had fun. Good on ya, dude! That guy right behind you in the exit lineup is Scott Smith, a longtime jumper. He's done some Hollywood stuff, and and was involved in training David Blaine for that balloon thing he did a while back. Again, congrats!! Black Death! ----------------- (Apologies to georger)

Call the office at Perris. Someone there likely has a contact for him, and would probably forward your contact to him.

My first post was simply about photos, looking for potential new suspects. Georger has added the idea of much more information, which is fine. But... Again, I understand your point. My supposition (guess?) is that there are a lot of old photos (and information) that have been uploaded to the internet.

I get that, but I'm guessing that there are a lot of old photos on the internet on various historical archive type sites?

I'm not all that tech savvy, I don't know if this is even possible, but if it is, I've wondered if someone fed an AI program all of the sketches and descriptions and told it to scour the internet for matching photos taken between '60 and '80, if it might come up with viable suspects to investigate?

Do you know if she made more than one jump, how many, did she get past static-line and into freefall?

Sure, it's all speculation... I have speculated that he may have asked for two sets so that they wouldn't tamper with them for fear that he might make someone else jump with him. I agree that there would be no reason for him to actually do that, but my thought is that just introducing the possibility that he might, might make it less likely that they would tamper with them. I'm not sure about that. Those chutes are pretty basic. Whoever stretched it out to inspect it, any cut/missing lines would be readily apparent. As for how many lines he cut, how long is that, would he have enough or run out...? My thought is that he cut what he needed. If he had needed more, he would have just cut more?

Cutting them open? Yikes! But as for opening them at all to inspect them, considering the spring-loaded pilot chutes and all (on the back chutes), unless he was a rigger and/or knew what he was doing and had at least some basic rigging tools, it would be unlikely that he could get them re-closed properly. So opening them would have rendered them unusable. ----------------- Really? I hadn't heard that before. In those days they didn't have tandems, where people can go make a one-time jump and treat it like a carnival ride. Anyone making even one jump had to train through the first jump course, and make a solo static-line jump, where they would be responsible for everything, dealing with their opening, possible malfunction / reserve ride, reading the winds, flying the canopy pattern and landing. That's ballsy, Alice!

I think you're right about this. There is a lot of weird things about the chute info. The FBI seemed to rely primarily on Cossey and his descriptions. But Cossey's descriptions were of his own personal chutes that he initially claimed were given. I think one was a sport main and the other was one of his pilot bailout rigs, the one with the possibly re-positioned ripcord routing. He initially claimed that those were given to Cooper. He was mistaken, but he never seemed to correct that mistake. So some of the found chutes were discounted because they did not match his descriptions. But whether he actually gave those to the FBI or not, SURELY someone at the FBI knew that those were NOT the ones given to Cooper, that he had been given Hayden's chutes instead. Why the FBI never caught on to that is a mystery. As for checking the serial numbers - the found chutes, they never found any harness/containers, right? All they found were canopies? On canopies, the serial numbers are on data panels that are stamped on in ink. In normal use, where the canopy spends most of it's life packed in the container, those data panels are fine. But if that canopy is left out in the woods or floating in a river, where it's exposed to sunlight, moisture, and what-not, that data panel would probably fade away over time. So even if someone knew to look for it, it may not be readable, if visible at all.

The harness, container, and canopy would each have a label with the model and serial numbers. Those numbers should also be recorded in the rigger's rigging log book and on the packing card. Whether they all actually are on the card would depend on the thoroughness of the rigger. The canopy info should certainly be. I'm not an expert on the 302's or the specific information flow in this case. But the following is what I seem to remember from reading it here. The 'lost in the mail' info you refer to refers to Cossey's log book info. Supposedly Cossey claimed to have provided copies of it, but the FBI doesn't seem to have it. The cards were both on the plane. I don't remember if the full info on the harness/containers were on them, but the canopy info, including serial numbers, were. I think the NB6 container has been debunked. That would have been Cossey's personal rig that he originally had claimed to provide, but he may not have. I think the two back chutes actually provided to Cooper were determined to be Norm Hayden's bailout rigs, which were older containers that had had newer harnesses installed. You should be able to find all this info in Flyjack's posts in this very thread.

A quick google search will show you images of those seals. Basically it's an easily breakable piece of thread that is looped around the end of the last ripcord pin just past the closing loop (or cone) then wrapped around the base of that pin, it ends up being a loop. The thread passes through the small lead thing that is crimped onto the thread similar to a small fishing weight crimped onto a fishing line. When the ripcord is pulled, the thread breaks. The lead seal might fall off completely, but it might stay attached to the ripcord by the piece of thread wrapped around the base of the pin. If Cooper no-pull bounced, the seal is probably still there. If he pulled, he most likely tossed the ripcord, and it would be nowhere near wherever the rig ended up. If someone found the ripcord, the seal might still be on it. Reserves (and pilot emergency rigs) have to be inspected and repacked at regular time intervals, and usually they have not been used. The seal would still be there, but it would break when the container was opened. The rigger would throw away the old seal and replace it with a new one when he was done with the repack. If the chute was actually used in-air, whether the seal was ever seen again would mostly depend on whether the jumper kept the ripcord. Student skydivers are taught to toss them, experienced jumpers usually try to keep them. A pilot doing an emergency bailout would likely toss it. I thought the serial numbers were known. Both of the packing cards were left on the plane. Flyjack posted the numbers many times.

Congratulations on your first jump and congratulations on your new-found addiction. You should probably run now, as fast as you can, before all your plans for the rest of your life vanish in a puff of turbine exhaust. You have gotten some good encouragement here. However, there is one thing I am compelled to address. Regarding AFF training... No, no, a thousand times no. This is as bad a thing as you can tell a prospective AFF student. Please never tell one this again. Solo skydiving, even once, even the first time, is not Disneyland. It is not even skiing, surfing, or mountain biking. It is a total commitment, and a blatant act of self-reliance. A solo skydiver, even on their first jump, should be trained, prepared, and self-confident enough that in theory, they should be able to perform the jump alone. They should be able to exit, maintain their stability, maintain awareness of their altitude, perform their tasks, pull on time, deal with their opening, perform EPs if necessary, identify their landing area and wind conditions, fly a proper pattern and land - by theirself. Now to be sure, a student should never be allowed to actually do that. Freefall stability is a subtle thing and can be tricky to learn. So yes, instructors go with. They help maintain stability, they have hand signals whereby they can help trim up the student's body position, and prompt them along their dive sequence, including altitude checks and when to pull. And if the student has trouble with the pull, the instructors can assist, and often do pull for the student. And while under canopy, there is (one-way) radio assistance. But all of this should be considered by the student as assistance, and should never be relied on as primary function. Students do sometimes flail exits and lose their instructors, and radios do sometimes fail. If a student is not prepared and confident to see it this way, they should keep training until they are. If they can't achieve this, they should stick to tandems or reconsider what they are getting themselves into. Yeah... umm, NO.

Why were his examiner ratings suspended?

Of course. This is all just interesting conversation. Disagreement just adds more pieces to the thought puzzle. If there is anything personal in it, for me it is the camaraderie of the shared interest. --- Apparently I read it wrong, but... ...sounded like 'I am choosing to accept this as fact'. --- Personally, I would put 'proving' before 'knowing'. --- I would think that those insights would differ depending on whether or not it was real. --- It's just part of the curiosity, but... ...as something cool to say, I like the 'dirty thief' line better!

I will re-state my usual disclaimer. I do not independently research this case, I am not actively trying to solve it. I have my own reasons for being interested, so I follow along. I do throw in a few cents' worth about the logistics of parachuting, because that is something that I do know about. And none of this is personal argument for me, just interesting discussion. But... This is something where I have a fundamental disagreement with some people who do research, and are trying to solve the case. Some people want to take their opinion of a likely scenario, and move it into the realm of fact. I cannot follow this. Sure, taking a likely scenario and seeing where it leads is part of how research is done, and may well lead to some proof. But the likely scenario itself is not proof. If someone comes up with an ultimate solve, if any link in their chain is supposition and not fact, then their proof may go poof. My personal take is that there is so much about this case that we do not, can not, know for sure, and likely never will. If it has not been definitively solved by now it likely never will be. But I could be wrong about that as well, and it is certainly no reason to stop trying.

That's an interesting take. On the other hand, he might have kept his hand in there anyway to maintain the 'authenticity of the ruse'. On the other other hand, if the bomb was fake, maybe he might have left it on the plane so that the authorities would know that it was fake, so that if he got caught maybe his sentence would be less severe. Maybe this, maybe that... Another thing I wonder about is his 'grudge'. He had a grudge - not against the airline, but a grudge. So what was that about? Was he maybe expecting to get caught, then he could publicize his grudge? But then he gets away with it, or gets killed, and we never find out... Maybe the grudge was just personal and the money was his answer? So much about this case, and we'll likely never know the answers. I guess that's why we still talk about it after half a century...

For the sake of conversation and with all due respect, I'm going to rebut some of your essay. This assessment is not accurate. Cooper asked for four parachutes, two fronts and two backs. What he was asking for was two complete freefall rigs, mains (back) and reserves (front). I think it's a fair guess that he asked for two rigs to ensure that they gave him good ones for fear that he might make someone else jump. In those days there wasn't a whole lot of difference in freefall rigs. Containers were all of similar design and function. Same with main canopies. They were mostly basic round canopies with some pattern of drive slots in the back. They all performed similarly to each other. So for him not to demand a specific type means nothing. The fly in the ointment came when, instead of main parachutes, they gave him pilot emergency bailout rigs. But by then he was already agitated with time delays, so he wasn't going to send them back for more. He didn't 'choose badly', he made do with what he was given. This, too, is inaccurate. Sure, night, weather, and varying terrain are not ideal, but they're not certain death either. A while back you stated that you discount any suspect that was alive the next day. I asked why, but you didn't answer. Here is the reality of his jump. If Cooper has the nerve to go through with this heist, he has it in him to pull the ripcord. It's not that hard. If he pulls the ripcord, he all but assuredly gets an open parachute, regardless of his stability or lack thereof. I base this on decades of parachuting experience and working with first time and inexperienced jumpers. It is also consistent with Andrade's research on WW2 bailouts and 377's personal experience in his learning phase. The money bag is not all that dissimilar to a front mount reserve. He was prepared to jump with both, which would still be less weight and bulk than what many paratroopers jump with. But the bailout rigs don't accommodate the front reserves, so as long as the money bag was securely tied on and didn't flop around or trail him, it shouldn't cause any problems. Cooper's main risk is whether he is injured on landing and unable to hike out. And that is mainly dependent on exactly the type of terrain he lands in. And you can all correct me if I'm wrong about this, but it's my understanding that he had a fair amount of relatively flat open area below him. And while it would certainly be better to have a controllable sport main, even basic pilot emergency parachutes are designed to save pilots' lives, not kill them. I'm guessing he had at least a little bit of jumping experience. He blew off the written directions, he seemed to be familiar with putting the harness on, and he was familiar with flap settings and flying 'dirty', with the landing gear down. If he wasn't an experienced skydiver or paratrooper, I'm guessing he probably at least took a course and made a couple jumps, so that this one wouldn't be his first. I disagree with this as well. I think there was a good chance that the bomb was fake. Sure, I could be wrong, the bomb might have been real and he may have been willing to use it. But it didn't need to be real. In that era, there were a fair amount of hijackings, and I think it's fairly common knowledge that in any public hostage situation the companies involved and the authorities are going to meet the perpetrators' demands. They're just not going to call the bluff and risk innocent lives. So the bomb did not need to be real, just the threat of it. So if it was fake, then he put exactly nobody at risk. And the jump posed no risk to anyone but himself, and as I have stated, far less than you seem to think. As for scaring people, the passengers didn't even know what was happening until they were off the plane and away from Cooper. As for the flight crew, they work in an aviation environment. If they are easily frightened, they didn't think their career choice through.

Yes, I realize you were ribbing us. But it was sort of on topic. Nick indicated a while back that he wanted to make a Cooper style jet jump, and I just wanted to make sure he knew that Perris was flying it's jet again. I suppose the rest of it could have been handled in PMs. Sorry to disrupt the flow of discourse. Anyways, more on topic...

Good to know you're fine!

A bit off topic, but... Which brings to mind that we haven't heard from Rob in a while. His profile says he hasn't logged in since last September. Does anyone know if he's all right? ----------------- Does that mean that their fresh repair looked old and well-worn? hehe

Wow, ok, that's cool! Their original post said they weren't going to do that, but their instructors probably pitched a fit and said 'let us, let us!'. A bit of advice - if you're going to wear a suit*, do like Cooper and leave the tie behind, and wear a shirt with a button-down collar. The wind whips loose stuff around, and a normal collar will rake your neck! *(Edit to add - the exit speed of that jet is pretty high, you'll want to inquire beforehand whether they'll let you wear a suit at all.)

Curious if you went out, and what you found out. What you need to know is what license, experience level, and gear requirements they have. Your first license comes at 25 jumps, and people do that on student gear, before looking for their own rig. If you're going to continue jumping as a hobby, you've got some breathing room. If you just want to do what's necessary to do a 'Cooper' jet jump, you'll want to know if they'll let you do it on post-AFF rental gear.