RhondaLea

Veter's already been hurt. You must have missed that part of his series of posts. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

I agree with everything Zenister said. I don't agree it has anything to do with what these wingdings tried to tie together in their paper. More later. Work calls. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Well...there you go... The Universal Brain rl [#666666] Meaning is what you bring to things, not what you take from them. Lois McMaster Bujold

I remember a time before the cameras got itty-bitty, so my perspective isn't quite the same as yours. I remember a time before there was such a thing as freeflyers. So what you're really saying is that this article fits in with your view of reality. What I'm saying is that it doesn't fit in with my experience. But a lot has changed since I stopped jumping, so maybe I'm like one of those old fogeys talking about the "good old days." On the other hand, while I remember some people jumping camera at Bridge Day '97 and '98, there were far fewer than the article implies. Because they've read about him? I've never seen any of his videos. So if a law is passed banning cameras tomorrow, what happens to jumping? The sport--both sports--existed for a long lot of years without a whole lot of video. Some, I'll grant you, but the good video guys were few and far between, so there are a lot of jumps that happened without pictures. I don't see anything productive about their article, Jason. And their focus is "edgework" (in this and other articles they've published) which is quasi-criminal in nature. Do you really feel that you are the canopy-equipped equivalent of a graffiti artist? But now we're about to go sliding into my perception of "what is crime?" and that's not relevant to this except from the point of view that I cannot be convinced that base jumpers are criminals--well, okay, maybe one or two --even if certain members of the law enforcement community skew justice to suit their personal prejudices by prosecuting base as a criminal activity. And I certainly don't believe any implication that base is a criminal activity should be allowed to pass unremarked. Now I'm going to bed. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

It is? We can have the rest of the discussion in PMs or email if you like, but your statement above makes me feel like I'm really weird. Or maybe your perception is different from mine because you're a videographer, and I have very little interest in video or pictures. I carry all my visual memory inside my head, not in a dvd. I don't go to movies either--I read books, and they all unfold for me visually, like my own private movie. So that's my prejudice, but I really did believe that all anyone needs to base jump (equipment-wise) is a rig and a canopy. rl Edited to add: Also irrelevant. Nowhere do the researchers make the claim that mediation in BASE is fundamentally different from that in skydiving. A discussion of that question in this paper would constitute scope creep. The only thing distinguishing base from skydiving for the purpose of their thesis is the quasi-criminal aspect of base. Which brings me back to the point that Jaap has asked you to comment on. Don't get me wrong, Jason, I think that a lot of what they describe, factually, is accurate and worth reading, but I also think they started out trying to describe what they believed to be an on-the-edge (legally speaking, not the way we think of it) community and were subverted in the process. So when they got to the end of the whole mess, they didn't really know what to do, and they ended up with a...swirl (to use their word) of shit. If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

It won't. The web interface is the wave of the present. Usenet still has its adherents, but everything that one can do with ascii art has been done, and web forums offer more visual opportunities. People rarely see the downside. Your favorite webpage may go down, but usenet never will. If your computer goes down, you can always find another computer and get your email, but if your web forum is down, your PMs are stuck in neverland. If everyone from dropzone.com migrated to usenet (or back to usenet), there would be no more moderation--anyone could say anything, no matter how offensive. I'm not sure if that's good or bad, really, but that's how it is. On the other hand, Sangiro has done a fabulous job of creating and maintaining this board, and it has a lot of wonderful features. I was one of the few rec diehards, but given the choice, I'm not sure I'd change the path that led to dropzone.com. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

It all depends on what they need you to do. Me, I worked the '99 Nationals in Sebastian. I answered the phones and did other miscellaneous clerical things. It was extremely boring most of the time. The nicest part was being able to do small favors for some of the teams and their members, but that really had nothing to do with the job. On the other hand, I was a paid employee of the dropzone at the time, and I have no idea what dreadful things were done to volunteers, but I think at least some of them ended up being plane loaders, which is kinda fun. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Flattery'll get you everywhere, Jack. Hug Lynn for me. I've been the supporting actress in too many sad scoonie stories. I'm hoping for a happy ending this time. You did good, Walt. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

You've been too quiet, Abbie. It's not your natural state, and it worries everyone. You need to post more inflammatory material more often, that's all. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Then jump in Mesquite. Prices are normalized for an area. For a long time, tandems were a lot more expensive up north than they were in Florida. I couldn't believe it when I got down here, and I learned that SDI was charging $150 for a tandem--what a bargain! Because at that time, at CrossKeys, a tandem was around $200. Times have changed, but the smaller, more northern dzs do charge more for tandem jumps. And if you go to a tourist town, you need to factor that in as well. Clint and Shelley are skydivers, and they are also very good people--personal knowledge. They are very generous people, and they aren't going to rip anyone off, and if $22 Cessna jumps and pricey (to you) tandems are what it costs to keep their dz going, then that's entirely fair. When fuel prices started going up a few years ago, some dzs tried to keep the price of jump tickets the same, but in the end, the old joke applies: "How do you make a million running a dropzone? Start with two million." rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

The last time I saw him (and finally met Maggie, after all this time) was at Gus' memorial. He's still working in Orlando, jumping on weekends, and hanging onto his hat. He posts occasionally on recdot, and he answers his email if you write to him. rl P.S. How you doin', Wen? If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Care to elaborate on the sense in which you felt their conclusion was skewed? And what you felt the conclusion was, exactly? Well, here we are, two days later. I always work better with a deadline, even if it's self-imposed. I take back what I said. These guys never reached a conclusion. They blathered. (Definition of "blather" as used here: argument by repetition, unsupported claim, context-dropping and spin-doctoring.) In all seriousness, I've read the abstract and the "conclusions and reflections" (plenty reflective, but not at all conclusive) about twenty times each. The individual sentences can be deciphered, but as a whole, they do not come together to form a cohesive and coherent thought. Unfortunately for these researchers, they failed to take into account that the mother of BASE is skydiving, and it is from those roots that video-making, video-sharing, and video-selling arise. Too, skydiving has plenty of media saturation. So what I would ask these fellows is this: if I substituted a skydiving event for a base event, what difference would it make to your paper and your research? And the answer to that is: none. Except that they wouldn't be able to make the link between skydiving and quasi-illegal activity, and publication in a criminology journal wouldn't be open to them. You can't tie the non-base jumping picture-takers, video-makers to base. They're just there to get a story, make a buck, and they will be at the next story-making, buck-making event, whatever that event happens to be. So what about the base jumpers themselves? Well, Will Forshay was just making a living. He was a professional skydiving videographer (and a ham--as Nick mentioned above--and a very funny, wonderful guy, which has nothing to do with this, but I miss him, so I'm throwing it in here anyway) who also happened to base jump. An opportunity presented itself, and Lemmings was born. Most of the folks I know who sell video, be it to the media or to their friends, are just people who have found a way to supplement their income. How is that different from anyone who makes a movie? Sells a picture? Does anything, really, to make a living or make a few extra bucks? It's only different in this paper, because these "researchers" say it is. Ask yourself this: if there were no media at Bridge Day, would the jumpers still come? If there were no way to make base videos, would you still jump? Okay, that's part one. I've got more, but after a day's worth of thinking and typing (all for you Abbie--I'm getting there), this is too much. So argue this, and eventually, I'll figure out how to get put the rest of the electrons in coherent form. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Awwwwwwwww...you always played nice. If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

I remember. I remember. I started posting in 1995, but I have read every post made to the group since its inception. Yes. Most of the links are broken, but the archived posts are there. As I said, by the time you got there, the group was already borked. But do you know Snuffy's story? It didn't start out with him acting like an asshole. But having read the archives, you know that at one time, the group was not a lot of crap with nothing more than "rare gems." dropzone.com is a great forum, but all the old-timers here got their start elsewhere. It does no good to repudiate the past, because it can't be changed. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

I never found rec.sky to be that helpful overall. It did introduce me to people that encouarged me to attend my first Quincy when I was a student....but I never learned anything from that group. At most it was a place for a select few people to say how better they were than everyone else....outside of that it was a flamefest that got old after a week. rec.skydiving has been around for a lot longer than you have been around, and before the advent of dropzone.com, it was a lively and informative ng. By the time you took up the sport, a lot of the regulars from r.s. had already moved over here. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

I resemble that remark. In its day, rec.skydiving was a great ng. Then came dropzone.com, and as everyone migrated over here, only the die-hard flamers were left there. For those who know nothing about usenet, the post announcing the decommissioning of rec.skydiving was nothing more than a troll. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

I know, Mike. I'm your neighbor to the southeast (the big white house next door). It's probably your car I have to drive around in the morning when I'm leaving for work because none of you folks know how to park. I don't want to know what the manufacturers recommend. I want to know what their individual, active-skydiver-employees actually use. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Back when Sangiro started dropzone.com, he would occasionally advertise mention it on rec.skydiving. My original registration got eaten during an early computer crash. I remember re-registering Skydive DeLand after the database went kablooey, but I didn't sign myself up again until later, and most of my posts have been in the last nine months. Edited to add: It didn't start out as dropzone.com: Skydive WebRing rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

You're scaring me. I really don't want the vet to tell me that the best thing to do is put him down because he wouldn't have lasted much longer. I want to be able to release him. I've been up all night with him. The vet's office should be open in a few hours. I hope to get him in there as early as possible. Thanks again for everything. Walt Whatever the outcome--and I hope it's a complete recovery--you've done the scoonie a service. I do hope you have the opportunity to hear him trill--it's a sound like no other. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Really? Try again, you are making a choice for other people too. I am so sick and tired of people thinking that the universe revolves around them and that they are smarter and wiser than the industry as a whole. The industry has made some notable errors over the years, so I don't think this is a very good argument. Maybe you should take a walk up and down Lexington, poll the neighbors and see how it actually comes out. If you want to drop the results by, I'm right next door. My guess is that one size does not fit all. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

RhondaLea, I wouldn't call it growling, but my injured raccoon does a lot of what I would call snorting and snarling. Here is a clip. I'd bet that it is what AcmeSkydiver is calling growling. It is the sound of a very pissed off raccoon in my bathroom. Again, this is not an imitation. This is an edited (for length) soundtrack from video of the raccoon, who would gleefully rip out my eyeballs with his teeth if he could get at me. Walt Poor scared scoonie. The one sound that struck me is the one that underlies the sound they make all the time--without the trill. The young ones would sound slighly similar when I'd take something away from them--pulling all the while. Stay away from teeth and feet, Walt. Edited to add: I looked at the pictures. Gah! He's climbing by using one leg normally and using the other to hug the the tree. He wouldn't have lasted much longer. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Actually, I think Rita found exactly that. She had a lot of good experiences, a lot of funny stories and she made a lot of friends. The fact that she no longer jumps is not particularly relevant, but what she took from the experience is. I never read the book, but I knew her from the start--both online and in-person. rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

No, you've been known to jump with only a reserve. Imprecision does not become you, bill. rl P.S. re the original question, I did more than a few jumps w/o my CYPRES turned on. If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

Lo those not so many years ago, someone probably said the same about going from ROL to BOC. Edited to add: Why not PM Booth and ask him? rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb

I will be glad to elaborate...later. One of the problems I have right now is I'm posting between files, as well as posting in my sleep. You're asking me a question that requires logical thought, and that means I have to take the time to do more than post my gut reaction. So either tonight or tomorrow night (I'm tired), I will do this. In the meantime, I did mention what I thought was the major flaw when I edited my post: their sample included a lot of skydivers, not a lot of real base jumpers. (And part of this may be my own prejudice about what a real base jumper is.) rl If you don't know where you're going, you should know where you came from. Gullah Proverb