mcordell

Thanks! He has mentioned the idea of a rubber band on the slider but I think he said something about stowes on the tail of the canopy in the past. That idea seems nearly as scary as a lot of the old ways things were done! I usually pack for him and while I am comfortable flat packing, I usually dont. He also mentioned today that if the precision pack doesn't work he wants to try a flat pack with the nose rolled to the a lines like he used to pack his manta when it was new so I think he is thinking along the same lines as you. We are going to try a dome slider, maybe coupled with one of these packjobs and see if that helps. www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

Wait a minute. Didn't this thread start off with you asking about a Raven that opened hard routinely? And that you have tried everything you could think of and were out of ideas? And that now you are considering slider mods even though you have already tried a larger slider? You are the one saying it opens hard, aren't you? I'm just trying to say that your dad deserves a canopy that doesn't hurt him. Super Ravens are known to open quickly. They are also known for '80s style flaring. Good luck with statistical averaging of the pain and injury, and good luck with your dad's "classic" canopy. I was saying that ravens in general don't open as hard as this one has. This one in partucular has been pretty bad. What I was getting at was that when someone says they have had 10-12 raven rides and only one was a hard opening, I don't think it would be fair to use that small sample group to say they are slammers 10 percent of the time. I would say if anything that shows that most of the time they aren't slammers. The odds of the 11 good openings being an anomaly are much lower than the one slammer being an anomaly. His main canopy opens hard all the time. This thread was just a means of seeing if anyone had any suggestions since the manufacturer said it was most likely the line type causing it. This sport has a history of finding solutions to this very problem and I wanted to draw on that experience. I can see where you read my previous post as contradictory. I appreciate the input. As for him deserving better, I agree...but I think he has also earned the right to not be criticized for choosing the style of canopy he wants considering he has had lots of new ravens that never opened as hard as this one so the choice was not one lacking experience with the canopy he chose or an ill informed or stupid one. The degree to which this canopy opens hard is an anomaly compared to his experience with ravens. We are assuming the difference is that this is the first one he has ever had with these lines...thus the question about how to slow the openings. To use the car analogy, if he loved classic cars and had an old mustang for which he ordered a brand new crate 302 and installed it, if it started like shit and he asked for advice on what was wrong, the least helpful advice to give is to get a newer car or a modern fuel injected engine because a motor designed in the 60s with a carburetor was bad technology. Hope that explains why I have ignored the advice that a raven is a bad choice. It's ok if you dont see things the same way he does. www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

Another way of looking at this is that nearly 10% of the those openings were dangerously hard. Not exactly a ringing endorsement. Just saying. From a statistical point of view, 1 hard opeining in 10-12 reserve rides is a relatively small sample group to say they open hard. However if 11 of those 12 were soft openings it sure is hard to call that an anomaly and insist ravens routinely open hard. www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

I think the change was just a smaller slider later in life for them. I have probably about 10-12 reserve rides on Ravens. For the most part they were quite comfortable openings. Only one ever rang my bell and it was a Micro Raven 135. I actually saw stars all the way to landing, which was not long BTW. I got open about 600 ft! MEL Yea when he ordered this canopy brand new a couple years ago it came with a relatively small f-111 slider. Obviously it opened pretty hard. George galloway sent us the larger zp slider. When he said it may be the only one in existence perhaps he meant the only one used as a main with spectre...not sure. That being said I suppose I will point out that it opens hard compared to all of his previous NEW ravens...not "bagged out" ravens. I think the assumption was mad that because they were bought for student gear they somehow came sun-faded and worn out. To the best of my recollection precision doesn't offer that as an option. For the record, there are plenty of people who enjoy classic cars and they seem to start and drive just fine. Just because people have newer technology doesn't mean the old cars are now shit...especially if they are brand new classic cars. I loved my 67 mustang...enjoyed driving it a lot more than my newer minivan. Just saying...I

I posted a pic a somewhere in the thread and it is the one in my avatar. Here is the data panel. The story as I understand it is that bill gargano built the model for his wife and my mom ran into them at a boogie in california and liked the joule so he built her one. Not sure how many he made but this is the second one. It is a 9 cell and even with no d lines it flies very well but the glide angle is pretty steep. This canopy has less than 200 jumps...may be less than 100 but can't say that for sure. It flares like a dream. I have an exit weight of 195-200 and my primary rig is a sabre 2 210 but this gives me landings every bit as soft...I just can't make it back from a bad spot. I don't jump it too often but it is packed in her vector with a raven 1 reserve. I had it reharnessed by tom dolphin so I could take her gear for a spin every so often. It's as close as I can get to jumping with her. www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

No. Even on our lowest jumps we have gotten out about 5k with a goold 10 or more second delay. We typically go to 10k on our jumps except for a few at our local airport with a guy that flies us door off to 5k and one jump recently at the dz at 6k due to clouds. www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

Mine has 5 a, b, and c lines and no d lines cause it's a 9 cell ;-) www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

I got the l&b one at the same time I bought my optima. I jump a z1 and put a loop of enough cord to open my visor all the way and still had lots to stow so the cord is plenty long enough. I used the self adhesive tape to secure it inside the top of my visor and it has never budged. www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

I have the led and love it. I have had those batteries in longer than my viso batteries and haven't had a problem. I'll take a pic if you want it to see the setup www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

How old is your dad, ? I'm not making any age thing here just that you mentioned a long layoff????

That's the goal! He is intrigued by my sabre 2 but these things don't come cheap and he doesn't want a canopy with a lot of forward speed...he prefers the 7 cell f-111 because it's forward speed is less and he can land it in a somewhat enclosed area. He used to use a raven for stadium demos and likes 5he design...like I said though, if we can't make it work so be it, but we will at least try www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

Yesterday was the first time I had ever heard "flag slider" but I was told they are the same thing... www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

The only reason your reply isn't what I want to hear is because it's not an answer to my question. I was just asking for advice on what may help this canopy. If I walked up to you in a grocery store and said "excuse me sir, do you know where the peanut butter is" I wouldn't expect you to answer "your wife is ugly". You are certainly entitled to your opinion about gear selection, which wasn't my choice, but I didnt ask for that opinion. That's all. I have gotten some good advice on a few things to try, some through pm. We will try that. If it works and he gets to keep a canopy he loves then great! There's nothing wrong with that. If it doesn't we will find something that does but it will be his choice...it's his gear. I'm sure you love what you have chosen for yourself. That doesn't make it right for everyone. Thanks for the reply. www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

I don't have anything useful to add to this conversation, but for my own interest and possible future reference, I'd like to discuss this quote (from a post that has now been deleted). How do you know you don't have a defect? Is it possible that the canopy just wasn't made to correct spec? I've read stories on this forum about canopies that regularly opened hard for no apparent reason. They get sent back to the factory for inspection, and sometimes the manufacturer just replaces it with another one. I think one story said that the factory test jumper who was jumping it for the investigation ended up with an injury himself because it opened hard for him too. I don't know that there isn't a defect. I spoke with George and he thinks the spectra lines are to blame. I suppose it is possible there is something else wrong. If the slider doesn't help I may have to just send it back to be checked. And your question did add to the discussion so thanks. www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

Thanks! I was trying to find a dome slider when I saw your reply and called immediately. I think he's going to be great to work with and was very helpful. I'm starting to remember why I quit logging in here though....this was a good reminder that sometimes it's not worth it to ask a simple question. Maybe I will just start sending my questions in PMs to the few people I have had decent exchanges with www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

They are brass. I have heard theories about ss opening faster. Not sure how valid that is but these are brass www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

Funny thing is we assumed it was the lack of stretch in spectre that causes the problem. George said spectre is slippery and the slider comes down it faster. I would never have guessed it was a friction issue www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

Here's a picture www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

It is larger front to rear. It was sent to us by precision after I talked to George the first time. The reason I asked here is because George's advice on the next step was a new line set and I wanted to get other options before we do that. There is a lot of knowledge on this board from which to draw. I have never heard of a flag slider but we may try a domed slider. Thanks! www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

Thanks. That was a bundle of help. When you have been in the sport longer than he has I am sure he will welcome your canopy advice. I am asking a legitimate question about how to slow the opening of an existing canopy. While I'm sure there are some out there than feel a guy with 40 years in the sport "ain't shit" if he isn't jumping a 60 sq ft canopy and swooping a pit of crocodiles, I feel I should point out that gear selection is a personal choice and he likes the raven. When it was ordered he didn't realize the microline would cause such hard openings. Short of relining the canopy I am simply asking if anyone has some actual helpful advice as to how to slow the openings. That is a legitimate answer. You just don't want to hear that there may have been a poor selection of equipment. Back in the 80's, a Raven was a good, solid canopy. but today, the technologies have evolved and there are much better selections available. It's hard to imagine an F-111 canopy opening hard, especially a Raven, they had such a reputation for slow openings. (Back in the day standard, not today's standard.) Is it F-111? top All ravens are f111. It sure does open hard though. I have to edit the profanity out of our videos. www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

Again, he likes ravens. That's the canopy he wanted and purchased for himself. It should have been ordered with different lines but because it wasn't, see the question I posted above. If new lines are the only solution then thats what we will do but I don't think he should buy a new lineset unless it really is the only option. Could someone please let me know if there are any ideas as to how to slow the opening of his raven 4. If you don't have any ideas that's fine. As for the "fact check", I didn't say they were the only 2. I said George Galloway told me they were the only 2 he knew of. If you had dozens then they can't be too bad of a canopy choice in your eyes. www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

Thanks. That was a bundle of help. When you have been in the sport longer than he has I am sure he will welcome your canopy advice. I am asking a legitimate question about how to slow the opening of an existing canopy. While I'm sure there are some out there than feel a guy with 40 years in the sport "ain't shit" if he isn't jumping a 60 sq ft canopy and swooping a pit of crocodiles, I feel I should point out that gear selection is a personal choice and he likes the raven. When it was ordered he didn't realize the microline would cause such hard openings. Short of relining the canopy I am simply asking if anyone has some actual helpful advice as to how to slow the openings. www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

When I got into the sport, my dad, who owned and operated a dz where I grew up, got back into jumping after having sold his gear a few years before. When he ran his dz he had raven mains and reserves for all his student gear and decided thats what he wanted. We ordered a raven 4 main and raven 3 reserve for his rig...with microline. He was having extremely hard openings so we swapped his slider for a large collapsible zp slider which helped very little...but some. He is still having extremely hard openings. George Galloway told me on the phone the other day that as far as he knows these are the only 2 ravens ever built with microline. Understanding they are intended to open fast, without replacing the line is there any way to slow down the openings? We have tried different packing methods and are going to try the precision pack but with the outside 3 nose openings rolled away from center. Would pockets on the slider help? We are about out of ideas. www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

Now that you mentioned paraflite it occurs to me the stratoflyer had no d lines...but also 7 cells www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

Oh! And mine is a 9 cell...I think all the others are 7 www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging