Sluggo_Monster

Tweedy says; “I taught I saw a puddy-tat. Now where is that puddy-tat. Here puddy-tat, Oh my! That isn’t a puddy-tat it’s a twoll turd.” Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

Current Airport Orientation attached. Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

Oh Boy! Oh Boy! Did I ever screw up! I want to apologize to Robert99 and any others who have been searching for Robert’s calculations on my web-site. The week before I moved to Augusta, Robert and I decided to place all six parts of his calculations on my site. I THOUGHT I DID THAT! If I did, somehow something got back-copied (probably because I was switching back and forth between my laptop in Augusta and my desktop back in Alabama). So, as Jo would say; “Robert’s work went POOF”. I have restored the pages (somewhat). I just copied Robert’s e-mails and did not interact with the material. I’ll go back and look it over during the holidays. So… Quade… Now you can see Robert’s calculations that he kept referring to up-thread. Again, Robert, I apologize. Robert’s calculations are here: Aeronautical Calculations (by Robert99) Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

JammieCooper said: A victimless crime? No victims of NORJAK? All offers to help you are now rescinded! You are an insensitive person who operates from “an illusion of central position”. I don’t know about others, but as for me, I refuse to feed the troll. Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

SKYWHUFFO Said: SKYWHUFFO, I THINK I know what is causing the discrepancy, but before I make a statement I need to find the source. Can you be more specific about the cited newspaper article? Do you mean the last page (.PDF file) of the FOIA FBI page. The last page in the last .PDF file, or the last page of one of the two Cooper pages on the FBI Archive website? I looked at all of those and couldn't find anything. A URL would be helpful. Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

smokin99 said: I was looking for a photo. I have a particular facial feature that I am investigating and I want to look at photos of ALL previous suspects. Kiperts was a very interesting man, maybe even more interesting than Duane Weber/John C. Collins. He could be 377’s “Poster Boy” for recidivism rate. Here are a few facts about Kiperts: Arvidis Julius Kiperts, 65 [in 1996] Robbed 16 banks, 1968-73. Sentenced to 36 years in prison - paroled after 11. Robbed three more banks, sentenced to 30 years in prison - paroled after 10 years. Robbed numerous banks in Oregon after his second parole. Sentenced to 40 years in prison. The parole board does not have jurisdiction over this sentence because of federal mandatory sentencing guidelines. That guy LOVED to rob banks! While doing this background search on Kiperts (notice I didn’t say research, because I don’t do “research”) I took note of something that (I thought) was very strange. In 1973 the FBI doggedly pursued this guy because they found a deposit slip in the wall desk with “D.B. Cooper” scribbled on it, at a bank Kiperts had just robbed. So with no evidence that Kiperts was connected to the deposit slip, they spent resources to try to hunt him down. You might be asking; “Sluggo, why is that so odd?” It is odd because evidently, in 1973 the FBI was following “even the slightest lead to try to capture Cooper.” In this particular case the suspect, who had been described as “short and stocky” (One of his aliases was “Yamhill Fats”) by dozens of witnesses to his robberies, hunted him down and investigated to determine if he was Cooper. As you know, they ruled him out, NOT BECAUSE HE WAS FAT, but because he was somewhere else on November 24th, 1971. What does this (above) say about the faith the FBI had (in 1973) in the composite drawings and Flight 305 eyewitness accounts? You’ve got dozens of bank robbery witnesses describing Yamhill Fats as, well, FAT, and the FBI won’t stop hunting until they can prove he has a rock-solid alibi! What do ya’ think, posters and posers? Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

While searching for info on Arvidis J. Kiperts, I stumbled across this newspaper article that (for some reason) I had never seen before: Woman searches for clues as elusive as D.B. Cooper Sunday, August 13, 2000 By Margie Boulé, Columnist, The Oregonian For more than a week, a handful of people scattered around the country have turned from the present to look back, to pull from their memories the face of a man they looked at, briefly, too long ago. He called himself Dan Cooper. In the media frenzy that followed his successful skyjacking of Northwest Airlines Flight 305 on Nov. 24, 1971, he was mistakenly called D.B. Cooper. It stuck. Today millions remember the man by a name he never used. And a handful believe they still remember a face they hardly saw. For five years, a Florida woman named Jo Weber has searched for the truth about her late husband. Eleven days before his death in 1995, in one of his last moments of lucidity, Duane Weber told Jo he had a secret: "I'm Dan Cooper." The name meant nothing to Jo until later, when a friend told her that D.B. Cooper actually had referred to himself as Dan Cooper. Duane always had been secretive about his past; now Jo began to recall odd bits of information, objects and incidents that made her believe her late husband may, in fact, have been the skyjacker. He had a history of incarceration. He had a history of military service. He chain-smoked and drank the same liquor Cooper had drunk on the flight. She'd once seen an old Northwest Airlines plane ticket that disappeared after she asked about it; Duane had taken her on a trip to the Northwest and had driven her to a spot in Southwest Washington where he told her Cooper had walked out of the woods. After five years of personal investigation and after becoming frustrated when the FBI did not launch an extensive investigation based on her suspicions, Jo decided to go public with her search. U.S. News and World Report printed her claims in late July. Several newspapers ran stories soon after. But last week Jo still was trying to locate witnesses who might have seen Cooper on the day of the skyjacking in 1971. In particular, she was looking for two witnesses: William Mitchell, a college student who'd been flying from Portland to Seattle to go home for Thanksgiving and who had been seated near Cooper, and stewardess Tina Muklow, who Cooper kept with him in the back of the plane during the return flight south from Seattle after he released the passengers and received the $200,000 ransom money and parachutes he'd demanded. After Jo's story ran in this column, pieces of the Cooper puzzle began to turn up. Eye witnesses -- or those who knew them -- cautiously, reluctantly, began to write or call. William Mitchell was called Billy Mitchell when he was a student at the University of Oregon, several men informed me. One woman remembered taking an Italian class with him at UO: "He had to give a speech in Italian, and he told the story of the flight with D.B. Cooper." Childhood friends of Mitchell called and e-mailed, offering to find him. Finally, William Mitchell's daughter wrote on his behalf. He did not want any more public attention, she said. He does not live in Oregon. But he would be willing to look at pictures of Jo's late husband and tell Jo if this was the man he remembered. Several people called with the phone number of a man named Hal Williams. Then Hal called. "I was the Northwest Airlines gate agent who worked on Flight 305," Hal said. "I personally saw Dan Cooper, and I was probably one of the few people who ever saw him without sunglasses." Hal had his fill of media attention back in the 1970s, he said. In fact, the whole Cooper incident became a burden over time. "I looked at hundreds of pictures over the years," he said. "You can't believe how many pictures, over and over and over. The FBI came to my house frequently. I suppose it was exciting at the beginning but then it got to be a real pain. I wished that I'd never been there. It just never seemed to end." Still, Hal has not pushed out memories of the event that has been strapped on his back all these years. "It was a raging, rainy, stormy day," he recalled. "A nasty day. As I explained to the FBI years ago, he was conspicuous. This was 1971, when we wore polyester and plaid and funny shoes and gaudy shirts. The boarding area had lots of businessmen dressed just like that. All except this one man, Dan Cooper, who was dressed all in black. It was unusual: black pants, shoes, black raincoat. It was like he was trying to hide, in black. But when you try to look inconspicuous, sometimes you make yourself even more conspicuous.” "He stood right smack in front of me while I was doing the things you do when checking people in at a ticket counter and boarding area," he said. Later, Hal was one of the witnesses who helped the FBI create composite drawings of Cooper. "But I never did think they were very good. They didn't look like him at all. But I was just one of many who helped put them together." Hal doesn't own a computer, so a friend went to the Oregon Live Web site where this column and two old photographs of Duane Weber were displayed. He printed out copies, and Hal took a look. He said he did not recognize Duane. But after he learned from Jo that the photos were taken as many as 10 years before and about 10 years after the skyjacking occurred and that Duane was like a chameleon who often changed his appearance, Hal asked Jo to mail him more photos. He said he's happy to help Jo. And he'd still like to see Cooper apprehended. It bothers him that Cooper became so famous after the skyjacking. "He's not a hero, he's a criminal, and they celebrate him because he got away with it," Hal said. "It's ridiculous." Jo particularly wanted to find former Northwest Airlines stewardess Tina Muklow. She had discovered, in her research, that Tina had become a Catholic nun. But she'd been unable to locate her. Last week, a Catholic journalist telephoned and said she had met and spoken with Tina, who changed her name when she took her holy vows. It's not yet known whether Tina will be willing or will be allowed to meet with Jo or look at pictures of Jo's late husband. But even if her request is denied, at least Jo will know she has left no stone unturned in her attempt to get answers. Even if all three witnesses -- the passenger, the stewardess, the gate agent -- do examine Jo's old photos of Duane, they may not be able to provide a definitive answer to her question: Was her late husband D.B. Cooper? Because even though these three people were dramatically affected by Cooper's crime, 29 years can pull memory a long way from the truth; trying to stir recognition from too-old photographs may be futile, like watering last year's crop. They say memory paints pictures. Cooper's crime may be a landscape that has become too dark to see. You can reach Margie Boule at 503-221-8450, 1320 S.W. Broadway, Portland, OR 97201, or marboule@aol.com. Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

Sorry... It wasn't meant to be as ugly as it looks on the printed page. Jo, I apologize. I meant to imply that Agent Carr probably doesn't have time to be playing games on DZ.com. My choice of wording was poor. Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

I think you are full-of-shit! Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

? I don't understand. ? Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

I don’t know why I am doing this, because I don’t think you are very serious. If you had taken my (and others) advice you would have found these photos posted previously. This photo from a newspaper article is in horrible condition, but it is the only one I know of. Now, if you really want to find out “the facts” of this case… do a little digging! The previous post is: HERE. Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

JamieCooper, If you can remember events that occurred as far back as when you were 9 mos. old, then you did not experience “infantile amnesia”. Infantile amnesia is a process that we all go through as our brain develops. Since you didn’t experience this process, I suggest that you stop trying to find out if your father was involved in NORJAK and, instead, find a good neurologist, because you are truly “a medical miracle”. Your brain developed in a way that no other human’s ever has or at least has ever come to the attention of brain and memory researchers. To help you get started on your new quest, I suggest you read the following (this is much less reading than the two DZ.com threads): Goleman, Daniel (1993). Studying the Secrets of Childhood Memory, New York Times, Tuesday, April 6, pages C1 & C11. Howe, M. & Courage, M. (1993). On resolving the enigma of infantile amnesia. Psychological Bulletin, 113, 305-326. Pillemer, D.B. (1998). Momentous Events, Vivid Memories. Cambridge, MA: Harvard University Press. Pillemer, D.B., Picariello, M.L. & Pruett, J.C. (1994) Very long-term memories of a salient preschool event. Applied Cognitive Psychology, 8, 95-106. Pillemer, D. B., & White, S. H. (1989). Childhood events recalled by children and adults. Advances in Child Development and Behavior, 21, 297-340.Back to text White, S.H. & Pillemer, D.B. (1979) Childhood amnesia and the development of a socially accessible memory system. In J.F. Kihlstrom and F.J. Evans (Eds.) Functional disorders of memory (pp. 29-73). Hillsdale, NJ: Erlbaum. Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

Try here: http://www.seattlepi.com/local/gallery.asp?SubID=6219&page=1>itle=D%2EB%2E%20Cooper These are archived photos from the Seattle P-I. They are raw (notice the cropping tape and crop marks). There are a total of 34 or 38 in the archive. They were made public on 11/23/2010 for the 40th anniversary story. Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

JamieCooper, I’ve stayed out of this discussion because it seems to me to be (about Round #23) of the he-said-she-said discussions on this thread. I have a particularly low tolerance for that type of discussion. I would like to exhibit the temerity to suggest a course of action for you: First, Read this entire thread, the previous and current versions. A link to the previous version is here: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3110857#3110857 . If you don’t have the time or energy to do this, then you are not very serious about presenting your case. This thread (its posters) has more knowledge about NORJAK than any other entity publically available (the FBI work-product is not publicly available). There are some very astute posters here and they recognize bullshit when they see it. If you have strong feelings about the possibility of your Dad being Cooper, then you need to act on it, otherwise you’ll be branded (on this thread) as just a “poser” or “play-ya”. Second, if after reading all of this thread, you still feel strongly that your Dad was involved in NORJAK, contact the FBI. If you have a case, they’ll contact you (in a hurry); the Agent-of-Record is Special Agent Eng. If they tell you, you have not presented evidence that makes them want to investigate your Dad, then, BELIEVE them and DROP IT! If he talked as much as you say he did, they have probably already investigated him (they know a lot more than you or any of us do). Third, if you have read the entire thread and still feel strongly about your Dad as Cooper, but don’t have enough EVIDENCE to present to the FBI, then contact me (through my web site, NOT a PM on this thread) and I will try to assist you. I have no position on the validity of your story, I will be glad to help, but ONLY AFTER you show that you are serious about trying to find the truth about your Dad. If you choose not to take my advice, I still hope you find peace in an issue that is probably troubling to you at this stage of your life. Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

I re-scanned the transcripts and best I can tell all traffic in SW WA was normal and unrestricted from the time of the hijacking forward. Exceptions: Landing at SEA delayed to clear ground traffic on RWY/TXYWAY Frequency cleared for exclusive use of comms with 305 South 3500 ft of 16L closed while 305 on ground on 16R. I have no evidence, but I think they would have held departures while 305 was still in the pattern at departure. I know it's more that two sentences, but I'm such a blabber-mouth. Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

Farflung, That little blurb in the bottom right of your photo shoud be Au H20 64. I hadn't seen that little ditty since... well... uh... 1964. Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

Good catch orange1, I found some more stuff. Chicago, Illinois June 10, 1980 United Airlines President Percy Wood receives cuts and burns from a package bomb disguised as a book and delivered by mail to his home in Lake Forest, Illinois, near Chicago. Auburn, Washington June 13, 1985 A parcel bomb, mailed on May 8 to the Boeing Company's Fabrication Division, is discovered when employees open it. The device is deactivated by a bomb squad. No one is injured. Chicago, Illinois November 15, 1979 A bomb explodes in a mailbag in the cargo hold of an American Airlines flight traveling from Chicago to Washington. Twelve people suffer smoke inhalation. The plane makes an emergency landing at Dulles Airport near Washington. But, I got the sense that the sawmill owner and his wife were talking about Ted BEFORE he was caught and identified as the Unabomber. Maybe I’m wrong, but that is how I read it, because they were talking about him complaining (to them) about the sawmill noise. That would have occurred BEFORE his arrest. I’ll read again and see if I’m looking at it wrong. Farflung, Once again you are “on target”! Your humorous posts are a refreshing change from the bickering normally found here. Both you and orange1 have a good handle on this thread’s “logic”. Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

In trying to figure out why the sawmill owner thought that Kaczynski might have been DB, I found some I-net sites (that means questionable) that indicate that the FBI case-name “Unabomber” was a contraction of “university and airline bomber”. That’s odd since ol’ Ted never bombed an airliner. Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

We have talked a lot about various folks who think their uncle, father, brother, etc. might have been D.B. It never ceases to amaze me how little “evidence” leads them to this conclusion. The following link has a simple statement: "... "We thought he was D.B. Cooper," said Gehring, referring to the famous hijacker who disappeared after parachuting from a flight, likely over Washington state, in 1971. ..." I wonder what the basis for such a statement would be? Land that belonged to 'Unabomber' for sale Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

Jo, I have to be careful what I say here (based or georger’s recent suspension), what I WILL say, is based on your last post, it is my opinion that you evidently don’t understand the size and complexity of what YOU refer to as “the Government”. Your last post also underscores your “entitlement mentality”. I see this in your post all the time i.e. “Someone must help me… or The FBI won’t take action even though I gave them the info… etc” The fact is… you have to paddle your own canoe, “the Government” is not your mother, your slave, or your big brother! If someone is having problems with a government agency and they decide to commit suicide because of it, it is THEIR decision, THEY are responsible, not some public servant or group of public servants. I’ve dealt with you for some time now, I know your behavioral characteristics and I would wager that your issue could have been resolved in a few phone calls (or letters) rather than 33. The fact that you know it was 33 says something about how you addressed the issue. Federal employees don’t like people who think they are ‘owed” something or think federal employees are their personal servants. Neither to they respond well to “drama queens”! Why didn’t you complain and try to get them fired (the way you did with Ckret)? Jo, there are a lot of people here (on DZ.com) who would help you if you just changed you approach to trying to seek help. I think that I have helped you, but it isn't easy to work with you. Try honey... instead of vinegar. Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

She has... I haven't... ..... YET! But when the orange one [orange1] tells you to do it... you have to... it's some kind of law or something! Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

Hey! So what? I’ve got credit down at the grocery store and my barber tells me jokes! So there! Na Na Na Na Nuu Nuu (orange1 made me do it) Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

Jo, For a self-described “dumb blonde” you sure do blather on in an authoritative manner about things that you know nothing about. I promise you there is NO WAY any agency can “make money” from FOIA request. Document storage and retrieval is a VERY expensive process. While I’m not a lawyer (although I play one on TV), I was once (in another life) a "Derivative Classifier" and spent a lot of time writing FOIA exemptions. The FBI can prevent any documents (of their choosing) from FOIA disclosure as long as they were classified (or in some cases, not classified) for certain purposes. Here are some of the reasons (abstracted and simplified from 5 U.S.C.§ 552(b)): Freedom of Information Act Exemptions The Freedom of Information Act entitles the following exemptions on documents being requested by the public: 1. Those documents properly classified as secret in the interest of national defense or foreign policy; 2. Related solely to internal personnel rules and practices; 3. Specifically exempted by other statutes; 4. A trade secret or privileged or confidential commercial or financial information obtained from a person; 5. A privileged inter-agency or intra-agency memorandum or letter; 6. A personnel, medical, or similar file the release of which would constitute a clearly unwarranted invasion of personal privacy; 7. Compiled for law enforcement purposes, the release of which - a) could reasonably be expected to interfere with law enforcement proceedings, - b) would deprive a person of a right to a fair trial or an impartial adjudication, - c) could reasonably be expected to constitute an unwarranted invasion of personal privacy, - d) could reasonably be expected to disclose the identity of a confidential source, - e) would disclose techniques, procedures, or guidelines for investigations or prosecutions, or - f) could reasonably be expected to endanger an individual's life or physical safety; 8. Contained in or related to examination, operating, or condition reports about financial institutions that the SEC regulates or supervises; or 9. And those documents containing exempt information about gas or oil wells. Please pay attention to #7 a – f. If the FBI doesn’t want you to have them… you won't get them… pure and simple. Your ranting and raving about this destruction of case data (FBI work product) reminds me of how you got all bothered because I mentioned a certain character from a book that used a nickname that was the same as one used by a “real person”. You swore that she had people watching this thread, she was going to sue you, you would lose your house, and be a homeless widow. Did that happen? No… it didn’t. I know you’re getting older, and you’re tired of this chase, for that I have empathy… But for God’s sake… drop the “drama queen” crap. It wears me out! Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

Jo said: Okay I went through 167 pages and found everyone with a burial date of 1971… now… what did I learn? 377 said: Aheeeem! Ah Ah Aheeem! Go HERE and I think you’ll find the reference. Scroll down near the end and you’ll see what the historian sent me. Look for “History of the 39th Aerospace Rescue and Recovery Wing”. Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum

RobertMBlevins, I admit that sometimes I’m not nearly as smart as I think I am. I wanted to punch a hole in your “Kenny wore a wig and the FBI was looking for Cooper based on a photo outside a wig store” theory, so I attacked the credibility of the newspaper article. What a mistake that was! I feel soooo stupid! You see, the name William (Jack) Lewis of Seabeck, WA rang a bell with me so I went through my archives and guess what? The FBI WAS looking at a photo of a man that was taken outside a Bremerton wig store. The photo wasn’t of DB Cooper, but a participant in a fraud where someone claimed to know who DB was. William John Lewis and Donald Sylvester Murphy were arrested and convicted for the fraud. Stop now and read the articles below. You may remember some of this from the so called FOIA material on the FBI website. Notice this quote from the Centralia Daily Chronicle article: "Murphy dressed like an artist sketch of Cooper, using a wig and glasses, to be photographed by Lewis....." So, I guess the FBI knew what it was doing AND there is still no (credible) evidence that Cooper wore a wig. What was it that lady said about Kenny's wig again, and why is that important? Oh yeah [whispering]... I don't think I'd use that Sun article in my book... it could have an adverse effect on your credibility. Web Page Blog NORJAK Forum