Hausse

Anybody know why the US doesn't do it the same day the EU does it?

I'm in.

I've been wondering if anybody ever attempted the stunt from the James Bond movie. Skydive, cut your main away over water and than instantly start a dive.

Definitely one of my favourits: Parmigiano-Reggiano

Yeah I remembered reading it about a year ago or so. I nearly died of laughing in front of my laptop so I thought I had to share it

This is pretty funny quote from bash.org 1. Save every Free Credit Card Offer you get, Put it in pile A 2. Save every Free Coupon You get, put that in pile B 3. Now open the credit card mail from pile A and find the Business Reply Mail Envelope. 4. Take the coupons from pile B and stuff them in the envelope you hold in your hand. 5. Drop the stuffed to the brim envelopes in your mail and walk away whistling. I have now received two phone calls from the credit card companies telling me that they received a stuffed envelope with coupons rather then my application. They informed me that it they are not pleased that they footed the bill for the crap I sent them. I reply with "It says Business Reply Mail" I'm suggesting coupons to you to ensure that your business is more successful. They promptly hang up on me. Now, I did this for about a month before it got boring, so I got an added idea! I added exactly 33 cents worth of pennies to the envelope so they paid EXTRA due to the weight. I got a call informing me about the money, I said it was a mistake and I demanded my change back. After yelling at the clerk and then to the supervisor they agreed to my demands and cut me a check for the money. I hold in my hand at this very moment a check from GTE Visa for exactly 33 cents.

Yeah you are right that is probably where the friction comes from. I am not aware thought that I have made a clear statement about when I think a person is understanding their risk. I am sure that it is different for every person and that a restriction would take away one of the great things about skydiving. The freedom to do things the way you think is right. Most other sports don't allow that and I think it would be sad if skydiving became an over regulated sport like scuba diving.

I have never been talking about students. I have been saying that people that understand and accept the risk should be able to fly what they think is right for them. This is a philosophical discussion to me. I am talking about the concept of free choice and that skydiving is one of the few sports that is still very much unrestricted and I think it should stay like that. That it can not be 100% implemented because of the spill-over costs should be obvious.

Here we go again. I believe that everybody should be allowed to fly what they want to. It's everybody's own decision how much they want to risk. As long as people know that they are at a higher risk and accept that, they should be allowed to do so.

You are gonna have fun the first day in winter when there is half a foot of snow on the "lines"

So you just want to make restrictions for people who don't know what they are doing? That's gonna be fun to enforce

Yeah I'm sure the whole being dead thing would suck for learning. I agree that if people do not know the risks they are taking, they are making decisions based on ignorance. I just believe WL restrictions would hurt the people that know what they are doing and that are aware of the risks and willing to accept them.

Everybody seems to be attacked by my statements. I am completely aware of the fact that there are certain special interest parties for who it sucks if somebody does stupid stuff. I am also aware of that it must stink (I have been fortunate enough so far to not having to experience it) to see somebody get hurt. But just because it sucks doesn't make it wrong. Everybody should have the choice what they do with their lives. If they intentionally try to hurt somebody, kick their ass, if they are not aware of what they are doing, educate them but if they make a decision with which you do not agree, you should accept it and talk to the person to make jumping for everybody possible. I haven't been involved in any DZ politics yet but I am fairly sure that there can be a good and constructive approach.

I think there is a difference between education people how much risk they take (telling them that it's stupid to jump that WL) and trying to prohibit them to do so because you think they should not be allowed to accept such a risk. I think the educating part is very important since it is not possible for people to make a valid decision concerning if the risk is worth what ever they get from taking it when they are not aware how high the risk is. Putting a license requirement on WL on the other hand restricts people of doing what they think is best and that definitely is the wrong way to go. All those "Hey do this with me" should have absolutely no negative influence on you. If somebody asks you to do something you think is too dangerous just don't do it. If you are too weak of a person to say no, then you are definitely in the wrong sport. I still say though that if somebody comes with such a request to you they do not mean to harm you, they just don't consider your level of risk taking. I doubt that they consider that you might not be willing to risk it because you can't see the additional reward as much as you can't see why anybody would do something so dangerous. What the reason for jumping what ever canopy is, is a very personal question. It probably reaches from: It's the safest there is to it's the most fun to fly and also it looks the coolest. What ever it may be if people think it is worth risking their health/live for it, why should we possibly not allow them to fly it?

Hey MagicGuy I don't disagree with you on the whole safety thing. All I said is that it is nobody's business to tell a jumper how much risk they should take. It obviously becomes your business if they are a danger to you. It would be wrong thought to prohibit people to make risky choices. If we start doing that we might as well prohibit skydiving completely. A lot of lives would be saved and nobody would be in danger of colliding with anybody else. I'd say the risk of getting killed during a jump just belongs to skydiving. If you do not want to accept that you should stay away from jumping and pick up watching TV. Blue Skies

Percentages mean a lot less when it's you or somebody you know. Because the risk of collision is smaller speeding around the sky than it is speeding on the roads does not give you the right to put other jumpers at increased risk. Here's a question that never seems to get answered by those who post here about their higher wingloadings and low experience. What are you going to do when somebody suddenly "appears" in "your" airspace, especially on final? The depth of a person's answer to that question can reveal a lot about just how ready they are for a higher wingloading. First of all: Statistics mean always the same no matter who's involved. And second: I never said that it was good that inexperienced people load canopies at 1.9. I never said that they don't put you in danger. I said is that it is nobody elses business to decide how much risk they should be taking. I know that their decision will influence you and your safety but that does not change that they have the right to choose how safe they want to be. I'm pretty sure most of the people who do what you consider as stupid will be willing to cooperate with you if you tell them your concern and just adjust their exit point or something along that. I'm not an experienced pilot and I have no clue who should be loading which canopy how high. So far my instructor told me jump that canopy and I jumped that canopy. But I know that people have different perceptions about live and they have the right to do whatever they want to do with it. I haven't met a jumper yet who would willingly endanger me and I am confident it will stay like that.

Hey skybytch. I agree with you completely about the additional complexity, but the chances that if somebody does something stupid it ends in a crash are smaller in the sky than on a street because there is more room and generally less traffic. If you look at the fatality statistic, just about 30% of the fatalities are from collisions. I would bet the percentage in speeding accidents is severely higher.

For all the people that are in my situation: I just heard Start Skydiving in Ohio will be open on Sunday. It's about 3h south of Toledo so if anybody would like to car pool PM me. I'll be going down there.

Why the fuck did they had to beep out all the fucking fucks? It fucks up the whole fucking song...

I won't be able to make it. I still have application essays to do and they are killing me...

Last weekend I downsized from a sabre1 210 to a sabre1 190. Basically same config, only difference being 20 sq.ft less fabric and 0.1 more WL. I felt I was "willing to risk" a smaller canopy. I was amazed by the difference in response and handling I got. I had expected some difference, obviously, but since the canopy is still so large... There's so much stuff I don't know yet, how can I make a worthy risk assesment all by myself? I completely agree that the people that think they are safe (no matter how big the canopy they fly is) are just not very educated about the sport itself. But I personally think the people that assume they are perfectly safe under a huge canopy are at least as dangerous as those that know how high their risk is under a small one.

My post was intended to show that all the people jumping out of planes are for sure not safety first otherwise they would be at the bowling alley. When you discuss WL it seems to be mostly discussing about the decision how much people are willing to risk and just because they are willing to risk more than you do doesn't mean they are wrong in any way.

To me it seems like everybody here is very concerned about keeping other people safe that obviously don't want to be safe. If it was safety first for them, they'd be at the bowling ally and not jumping out of a plane.

I did tell mine in advance and they didn't like the cost factor (I'm student) but they don't really mind it as long as I don't get into too serious money problems. When I mentioned BASE they weren't as happy anymore. They live in Switzerland so they hear what happens in LB from time to time.