Coreece

Shitty wording. Even if they promoted things like evolution and dark matter, they would still be spreading unproven theories.

Clearly she was in total submission to her husband when she graciously accepted the hyphenated name he gave her as a wedding gift. Also a good decision on his part for them to become white colonizers to prop up her career. . .

That's not what he's said at all. He said in retrospect that he would've been ok with unrestricted travel because at that point it theoretically wouldn't have really mattered. I was just describing what that would've entailed. In the subsequent post below, he admitted that is what he was saying: Yes, I'm actually saying that.

Yes, I'm actually saying that. When we were talking about this back in May you didn't even know that Trump called for travel restrictions and quarantining back in March. When I provided the source per your request, you said oh "I didn't see it, but if I did there would be no complaints from me." Then in that same post you said you thought March 13 was a little late, but "never late than never," which is exactly what I just said several posts ago. And then earlier in this thread you said that "they weren't screened, they weren't quarantined, and here we are, 211,000 deaths later" as if they were one's driving the outbreak. Now you're saying that none of that would've even made a difference anyway. Ok which is why it's odd that at a time when many of us were pushing for social distancing, lockdowns and quarantining, you're now saying that it wouldn't have mattered if we just let non-citizens in from around world, coming and going to their business meetings, hotels and anywhere else without any quarantining whatsoever. Talk about not thinking things through. There were people here who felt the same way back then as you do now, but they already admitted that they would've been wrong about leaving travel unrestricted. I know you're new here, but try to keep up with the rest of the group please.

On March 11 after it was labeled a pandemic, Trump called for travel restrictions and quarantining. We both agree with those concepts in general. Just because officials didn't give a shit or were to incompetent to implement those measures as effectively as they woulda, shoulda, coulda doesn't mean that we don't still agree with those measures in general or that he somehow fooled both of us. The travel restrictions did save lives, albeit not even remotely as many had we started earlier. By Olof's gorilla math he says it was about 6000 lives, but whether it was 1000, 6000 or 20000 there would've still been tens of thousands of other non-fatal infections prevented. Now you guys can say that the addition of those numbers isn't significant or "almost indistinguishable," but those numbers represent people, and they are significant, and saving those lives wasn't "completely useless."

Not sure if you were here yet, but back in April people here were bitchin about a handful of christians and how they were a just bunch of irresponsible selfish morons putting us all at risk for holding services and how they should just be locked in the church, denied medical treatment, fed through a mail slot and left to die if their God didn't heal them etc, etc, etc. Are you're really saying that it would've made no difference if trump didn't do the travel ban, that it would've made no difference if people continued to fly from all over the world to all 50 states without quarantining, that they could just come and go as they please to their unnecessary business meetings and then flood the hotels. . .maybe stop by and feed the Christians if they have some free time - a slab of ribs should fit nicely. Not when that number translates to thousands of deaths and tens of thousands more infected or hospitalized because of non-citizens that would've had no business being here in the midst of an outbreak. Just curious, would universal healthcare over there foot the bill for Europeans that were treated in the US?

This thread keeps reminding me of Big Lebowski: "My art has been commended as being strongly vaginal which bothers some men. The word itself makes some men uncomfortable. Vagina." "They don't like hearing it and find it difficult to say"

Perhaps a blockchain document verification system might be a similar solution: https://medium.com/blockchainexpert-blog/document-verification-using-blockchain-a02c059ed97b

You're saying...you'd support something regardless of whether it's completely useless. No, travel restrictions and quarantine are not completely useless and my support for them is not dependent on any president, regardless of when they were implemented during a pandemic. I see you're still not familiar with the term "exponential growth". Dude, just stop it already. There is nothing in there to suggest that. It's pretty simple - if the travel ban prevented x amount of non-citizens from entering, then those people can't spread it here and add to that 200k+ number, so then how was the travel ban completely useless?

Ya, as a general rule I'm not ok with shutting out our own and/or just leaving them for dead. Moving forward, if travelers were notified that they'd be subject to a mandatory quarantine during another pandemic, it might help prepare them to respond more favorably. I would hope that next time we'd all be a bit more cooperative, but I wouldn't necessarily be against non-violent ways to compel one to quarantine, short of police or military involvement.

What exactly do you think he fooled me into doing, and how does your copy/paste illustrate that?

wasn't me What's going on with you lately? If you're going to say that I literally said something, then you should quote what I literally said. That is not literally what I said. You did something similar earlier when you said "the fact is that I seem to be conceding." If you got a ticket for blowing a red light, how would it sound to you in court if the cop said "but, but, the fact is that it just seemed like a red light? I understood what you were trying to say, but at that time I wasn't looking at the travel ban as a means to stop covid. If it was implemented sooner, fine, maybe, but nobody was really advocating that. I just saw the travel restrictions/quarantine as standard procedure to slow the spread at that point. Better late than never. How was it entirely useless? You just said it would've been wrong to have unrestricted travel and that a "real" travel ban could stop covid, so why wouldn't restricting travel to non citizens limit the spread? Even if it didn't have a significant effect on the overall numbers, it still would've prevented infections and even more deaths. There was just no reason for non-citizens to be here, not for business, not for pleasure. No reason for them infect others or get infected and spread it around even more when they have no good reason to be here during a pandemic. I mean if olof is going to suggest that the lack screening/quarantining of citizens contributed to the 200K+ deaths, then by that logic, preventing non citizens from even entering and taxing the system even further would still limit the number of cases/deaths.

Nice deflection. This entire inquiry into my support for the travel ban is a deflection, as if my support for travel restrictions and quarantining are even remotely the same thing as you and dekker falling into biden's pile of horsehit about us protecting ducks more than children. When was the last time someone was given a death sentence for murdering a duck? No, travel restrictions and quarantining help reduce the spread. If there was another outbreak I'd still support it regardless of who was president and how effective they were in it's implementation. No, it's not an example, and you can't find any because there are none. You've only been here several months. There are people that have been here for 10-20 years, they've met in person and still haven't figured them out or which "side" they run with. Take wolfriverjoe for example and how verbally barbed he is against religion, republicans and conservatism in general. For years you rarely heard a positive word from him when it comes to the right, and hardly a negative word when it comes to the left. He's still a registered republican if he didn't change it yet and has never voted for a democrat president. Now take me, born in a working class democrat household in the middle of Detroit, formerly a registered democrat, now a registered independent, never registered as a republican, and never voted for a republican president.

No. The main objection is that they weren't implemented, period. The "travel ban" did not ban travel - it just banned Chinese aliens from coming into the US. He fooled you. No, we're not talking about the China ban in Jan. We're talking about the travel ban in March after the WHO and Trump declared a pandemic. As far as I remember, nobody here was even talking about the Jan ban or even knew about it until I brought it up months later after stumbling upon it when researching something else.

No it isn't. Back in March you were saying that we "don’t face any additional risk from people coming in from the outside," and how we'd pose more of threat to travelers coming in than they would on us, and how some unnamed expert "seems to say" that the travel ban isn't an effective strategy - that there are economic concerns and the additional strain on businesses. And then you say I'm the one that wasn't ok with real measures to stop covid? I mean would you have seriously been ok with it if Trump didn't restrict international travel and allowed businesses or whoever to just come and go as they please, without quarantine? You baffle yourself. I never said it was useless - and practically everyone here has expressed the importance of travel restrictions/quarantine, with the main objection being that they weren't implemented sooner. The only reason we're even talking about this right now is because olof is just trolling again and tried using it as a lame example of how trump supposedly tricked me, somehow.

Then you weren't ok with taking any real measures to stop the virus. Hindsight's 20/20. At that time there wasn't much knowledge or emphasis on asymptomatic carriers. I'll admit tho that even back then it felt a bit like wishful thinking to hope that travelers would self-quarantine, but there really didn't seem to be an acceptable/practical alternative at the time. Obviously this issue will have to be addressed moving forward. I suppose I would be more open to the idea if travelers were made fully aware that they'd be forced to quarantine or denied entry in face of another pandemic involving asymptomatic carriers.

Okay, back in March you were very supportive of Trump's "measures" to stop Covid-19 Ya, I'd suspect most of us here support the idea of screening and quarantine. We knew quarantining would be voluntary, but I think it's a risk we were willing to take given most of us aren't ok with shutting out our own people or directing them to quarantine by gun point. What about the criteria of being "hyperbolic bs?" Statements about covid screening and quarantining are nowhere near the level of hyperbole found in the comment about us protecting ducks more than our own kids, especially when you already know it's illegal to hunt children, lol.

z Oh yeah sure, and you're the independent thinker who doesn't fall for crap? hahahahahahahahaha Then you should easily be able to show an example where I've supported Trump or Biden's hyperbolic bs. For an independent thinker you stick to the party line as if your brain were on rails. I'm a registered independent, but even most democrats don't identify as liberals - many still support the 2nd amendment and can still disagree with the idea of abortion, even if they are pro-choice.

No, you were saying that it was f'd up that we protect ducks more than children, and I was saying that it's f'd up how Biden knew people like you would fall for that line of horseshit, lol. Of course you're going to change the subject to that same old tiresome narrative even tho it has nothing to do with me nor what we're actually talking about. Besides, there is no conflict with supporting a negative public opinion of abortion and supporting the 2nd amendment. And again, anti-abortion isn't just some male dominated christian conservative movement: https://www.secularprolife.org/pro-woman https://www.secularprolife.org/religion

Thanks Captain Obvious. That was the point. But the emphasis was how one's approval is determined by how far away they lived from the virus. Yes, I am sure you heard those things. Obeying everything you hear from every nut job out there is a poor path to take, wouldn't you agree? You were the one comparing it to the flu in the beginning, just as you did for N1H1 - nothing wrong with that, and I even agreed with you. Jakee was the one arguing with me about how the airline/border shutdown was an over-reaction. I wouldn't say that you guys are nutjobs for thinking that regardless of whether or not I agreed. As for the masks, the shortage had officials down playing their effectiveness until they had a handle on supplies.

We also heard all about how shutting down the airlines was an overreaction and that the flu was even more deadly, and how masks can be ineffective so we should just save them for healthcare workers. That's because independents are judging it based on how he's actually handling it, not because of where they live or because they decided long ago that Trump can do no good/no wrong.

I mean, how fucked up is that..... Ya, fucked up that: 1) Biden approves this horseshit. 2) How you just lap it up. 3) That Jerry thinks this is all just Brent's opinion, lmao.

Why, what does that have to do with anything?

Pretty easy to just make a mock-up of the slogan on the fly-swatter and then throw it up on the web. It says it usually ships within 14 days, so plenty of time to find a mfg to fulfill the order.

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