tfelber

I had that thought when I brought up jumping a helicopter slider down last week, but most of the feedback I got indicated it probably wouldn't have that much value. Now that I jumped the helicopter slider up, sub-terminal I can say I probably wouldn't have learned much. Packing and deployment characteristics of a skydiving rig are quite different compared to a modern BASE rig. I had one head low exit where I knew I was head low but threw anyway. I felt the PC hit my feet as I released it and ended up with line twists. I don't think packing without a dbag or slider down would have changed the results. I had one 2000 ft exit where it took longer than I had expected to be pulled upright. I looked over my shoulder and could see everything was opening fine. The "longer than expected" feeling may have come from the lower altitude or it may have actually taken longer. I would like to jump my BASE pack jobs in a BASE container a few times from altitude, but I don't think I'll find a DZ that will let me do that so I'm resigned to testing this from an S. What I did learn the past two weekends under the Flik was control range, braked turns, full flight speed/distance traveled, backing the canopy up, that I can land it standing up in 3/4 brakes, and I need to practice accuracy more. I'm very interested in what else I can learn prior to doing an actual BASE jump, but I think I'm nearing the point where I'll learn the most by being around jumping and jumping myself. I realize I will learn a great deal through conversations with people regarding jumping but I need to be around BASE jumpers and this probably isn't going to happen at the DZ. Any thoughts are greatly appreciated...

My thinking is similar... I was jumping a Flik293 with a dbag in a Mirage student rig which had a FlightConcepts 280 ZP in it when I got it without any problem. The pack volume on an F111 is less than a ZP. Why would you jump it without a dbag? I don't think you would learn much regarding opening characteristics. It is more of a chance to learn the flight characterisitics. Also, if your going to BASE jump a 280 you'll learn the most flying a 280. I know switching from my 135 to a 293 was a much more drastic change in performance than if I would have tried a 220 first. My biggest issue is confidence in my equipment and my ability to fly it. If I have that jumping is the least of my concerns.

What's an UNSTABLE exit???

I finished reading it Thursday on my way to the MoFo Boogie. It is interesting to read but I kept imagining it taking place a long time ago. Partially due to B&W photos and the car they used for their trip, but it appears the guy is only in his 40's and the dates were early/mid 80's. Their thoughts regarding BASE are very unique in comparison with today due to BASE being in it's infancy at the time. Can you imagine bringing some girls on a suburbia jump to distract the guards in today's world? Hell, they'd throw the girls in jail. They also jumped in some pretty bad conditions; high winds and rain, which I hear most people refrain from these days. I know nothing of the three people other than what I read in the book, but it seems like BASE jumping was not a lifestyle for them. It was more of a means to an end, getting their BASE number. From my LIMITED exposure to BASE, the culture of BASE is much more of a lifestyle today, with many jumpers quitting skydiving all together to pursue it. Some have never even applied for their BASE numbers because that it not what it is about for them. From the book it sounds like these three men stopped BASE jumping after they had achieved their goal. These guys went in search of the objects necessary for their numbers with a "Survived that one, what's next attitude". Today, the goal seems to be jump and live so you can jump again rather than viewing jumping as steps to get somewhere. I would have liked to had a lot more details which would have enabled me to more clearly recreate the situations in my mind. As it was, I had to rely more on my imagination. The descriptive details would have enabled the author to create a broader, more engulfing context for the book. I'm not sure someone who doesn't skydive or perhaps have an interest in BASE jumping would find the book very enjoyable to read, but it's intended audience may be limited to jumpers. The last chapter provided a good transition from then to now, even referencing very current events like Tom Aiello's article and Slim's incident. This makes me think it may have been added after the initial publication or maybe only for the English version In summary the book was very interesting to read and sure makes me wish I had been involved with the sport while it was maturing. You compare the gear people were jumping 10-20 years ago to the BADA$$ stuff available today and you can't help but say "Those were/are some brave MoFo's". Now if we could just get the NPS to understand BASE is about jumping not violating landmarks or cheating death.

That is one of the points I was trying to make, although I definitely was not clear or direct.

I'm going to say this with the expectation of getting flamed, but I REALLY don't intend to piss anyone off and my observations may be completely incorrect. I just got back from GA and I was in FL a couple of months ago. Other than that and the WFFC I mostly jump out west. I talked to several people out east and have heard of many others from DZ.COM and friends who are downsizing VERY, VERY rapidly. I'm talking 100-200 jumps under Stiletto 150's, 135's, VX104's, etc. loading them pretty heavy. Some of these guys believe they are excellent pilots and some of them probably are, but with a couple hundred jumps how would you know? In contrast to this I don't seem to see this as much in the western part of the US. There are a few but it just doesn't seem to be as prevelant here. First thing this morning I see this accident and it generates a great deal of concern. These types of accidents are totally avoidable but people keep dying from them. I even found myself this weekend telling a guy with 100 jumps weighing about 170lbs that he could jump my 135 Nitro if he wanted. And I believe if he jumped it a couple of times he'd be OK. But when these people that WE are advising, that are our friends, get a little braver the edge becomes invisible. This edge isn't mild. You usually don't step over it and go "ooo that was close!" It sneaks up and slams you and often your only hope is that you live. I met some great guys and gals this weekend and I really don't want to see them get hurt because they think they're fine and nobody is willing to tell them to slow down. I'm rambling a bit because I'm not sure what I really mean to say. My intentions are more to generate thoughts than anything else... The earth is there, you're going to hit it. It's your choice how hard!!!

I had a good time partying with you ALL. The jumping was great also, but I can jump at home. It's the party that makes all the difference. You guys/gals should put together a trip and come out for the MOAB Boogie next year. I promise it will be the shit! Also, let me know if your headed out west. I live 20min from Elsinore and Perris and got plenty of room. I don't know when, but I'LL BE BACK!!! Go ahead twist my arm. Edited to add: BTW, what happened to the biiiaaatch that started this thread. You were sorely missed Whit!

Do people watching/assessing you think your having near death experiences? I know when I was racing motorcycles, I would make a change and come into a corner a lot faster than previous times and think OH SHIT!, but I'd make it through the turn and a few laps later realize I could still go faster... If people around you are warning you of impending doom, it would probably be wise to LISTEN. You have lots of time to learn unles you get seriously hurt or killed!

What do you mean your not coming??? Did you get kicked off the DZ or what??? Let me know what's up.

I did a terminal exit with a sail slider jumping a Flik293 with VTEC yesterday. It opened much faster than anything I've jumped except a badly packed Sabre and wasn't that bad. I'm not worried about getting hurt from the opening I was just interested in the feeling. One less thing to go damn I wished I'd have known that before. Not to mention I got a heli to jump next weekend and was wanting to put it to use.

OUCH!!! That is one of my concerns... Though a PCA sounds like a good idea. I plan on doing at least a couple of practice jumps slider up from the heli to ensure I can exit stable. PC in hand would be my preferred exit, but if you hesitate too long you're kinda @#$%ed. The idea came from watching a friend of mine do a low exit from a balloon. I just wanted to add some altitude and had access to a heli next weekend...

I was wondering if that was you. What did you do to try and clear it or did you just stare at it in disbelief? When you were flying it did you have to countersteer and then land with a partial flare or what? Glad everthing worked out.

Hey Clint...what's up? The why was in response to nick's why. I've done several helicopter jumps and two balloon jumps. There's not a huge difference between the two except for the noise and a downward wind for a brief period of time on the helicopter. I've seen a lot of BASE video and the openings, slider down, appear quite severe. I would like to see if I get my bell rung at altitude before I go doing any low altitude stuff. BTW, saw the article in Parachutist but haven't gotten a chance to read it. Good photo of our demo team though, eh? Hope to see you soon...

Why? Because I want to experience a slider down jump at altitude and there'll be a helicopter next weekend at the MOFO Boogie. Otherwise, I would try it out of a baloon. At some point in time my velocity will equal the velocity of the wind produced by the rotor. I would assume this would be very soon into my freefall.

I am considering a slider down jump from a helicopter using a BASE canopy in a skydiving rig, any thoughts? What about max delay?

Yell back...that should surprise her!

I've fallen down the face of a 40' cliff and landed in the lake with a broken wrist and a gash in my forehead. Good thing I missed my boat! I've crashed a motorcyle at over 135mph more than once. I've flipped a wheelie over backwards at over 60 mph. I've jumped off a 110' cliff into water without a parachute more than once.

Dude, you even slur your typing when your wasted.

Getting beyond fears of this sort can be dealt with by seperating the facts of the situation from what your perceptions of the situation are. I know when I had fears like the ones you mentioned while skydiving either driving to the DZ or leaving the ground in the plane, I go through my plan, my emergency procedures, check my handles, etc. I have confidence in my ability and training and what I know and I block out what might happen. After all, what might happen is just a fairy tell you've created in your mind. It's not real yet it's running your life. If someone close to you gets hurt or worse the fairy tale involving you is much easier to believe, but it's still just a fairy tale. Continue to train as if the worst could happen, but overcome the natural tendancy to live your life as if it will happen. The more you jump and the more you learn the easier it will become.

My ex-wife freaks out that I still skydive. She thinks that since I'm remarried and have a kid I should stop doing all this crazy chit. My wife thinks it's great that I have something I enjoy so much. My kid loves it. If I take a week and go to Rantoul she has no problem with it.

Here are some things I posted on Blinc regarding this issue:

All I have to say for both is LUCKY, LUCKY!!!

A very good point and something I often forget!

I'm not interested in just new gear just readily available. I'm also interested in why people have their preferences not just the number of people who favor one or the other.

My thought here was to have a comprehensive list without listing everything ever made. I grouped Perigree, Perigree II, and Perigree Pro due to them being basically the same. However, I realize now the Pro is a two pin and the other two are velcro. The same goes for the others Vertex/Vertex2, Prism/Prism2, Reactor/2/3/4. See I'm learning more already