DocPop

Is this only a problem with the metal D-handles? It sounds like the softer, pillow-type handles would be able to deform and stay with the MLW better. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

A few thoughts to start the ball rolling: 1. Get some help from local instructors. If they can give you your "checkpoints" in the pattern that's great, but if they can explain why they chose those checkpoints then you have the basis of some understanding. The shape of a pattern will change dramatically between windy and no-wind days. How does it change? See if you change think it through and work out what wind will do to the downwind, base and final legs of the pattern. 2. If your pattern consists of equally spaced altitudes e.g start downwind at 900', start base at 600' and start final at 300' then the TIME taken to fly each leg should be identical, but the DISTANCE covered over the ground will be quite different, and will be dependent on wind. On a true no-wind day they will be of equal length. 3. Take a canopy course. 4. Read "The Parachute and its Pilot" by Brian Germain 5. Tell experienced jumpers on the ground your plan for the pattern on the next jump and get them to watch your execution of it and comment on what you did well and what you can work on. 6. Don't get so focused on your pattern that you forget to keep your eyes open for traffic! This is all very general but I hope it provides some food for thought. I am not an instructor, just a guy with an interest in canopy flight so read my ramblings above while bearing that in mind! "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Isn't that a bit of a problem? It seems like lots of these discussions come back to the fact that we have some (if not all) the answers, but enforcement is the missing link. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I agree totally, but to continue your analogy, I am just saying that we should not ignore factors such as reckless driving by totally sober people IN ADDITION TO the drunk drivers. (I am in no way condoning HP landings in traffic) "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Very informative, Bill. Thank you. I learned something today! "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Is this really true? Brand new ZP should be almost 100% impervious to air whereas brand new F-111 will be "leaky" right from the factory. There has to be an advantage of ZP over F-111 besides life-time. When ZP fabrics wear out and become porous they are more similar to F-111 and generally considered "ragged out". Am I missing something here? "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I had performance anxiety on my AFF jumps - the more I passed first time the worse it got! I now realize that it didn't matter at all. Some of the best skydivers there are failed levels. It's still a skydive and it's supposed to be fun! Jump more, think about the moment not the "pass or fail" and it will all come right. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

LOL - you must have known you would get a Canopy Nazi comment by posting that! "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

One moist crevice is pretty much like the next. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

My suggestion would be to speak to either the DZO or the S&TA as those guys should have an overview of what the other jumpers should be doing. Give them an outline of what you plan to do and ask if this fits in with the way the DZ runs and if there is anything you should be aware of. I would not personally assume anything about a new DZ - it's so much safer to ask and get the facts. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

That sounds like a good idea to me. The only problem I could foresee with that is if there are two guys on the load both trying to be last! I had a situation where over several jumps I was entering the pattern at a similar time to a videographer (a light girl on a Katana 89). We would look at each other and wait for someone to go first. After this happened 2 or 3 times we spoke on the ground and agreed that whenever that happened I would let her go first. Problem solved by a bit of communication! "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

But collisions are not just a 270 related problem. We had two students killed just recently. If we try to relate deaths due to collisions to a type of turn, or a type of jumper, we are not addressing the whole problem, surely? "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Could you explain why high pullers go third? At my DZ, if I am pulling at let's say 12,000', I am last out. What is the advantage of your order? Thanks "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

What happens when it changes when someone is in the middle of their pattern? Do they chase the arrow? When is the last moment a person is briefed that they can change their planned landing direction? "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I am not the one complaining about downwinders. I can do them without injury. You're the one who seems to need the practice. I am not advising any more than anyone else who chips into the conversation with a point or comment. Hence my use of phrases such as "IMO..." (In My Opinion) and "It seems to me that...." Are you such a skygod that you want a jump number limit on even discussing this issue? "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Congratulations!!!! Better to PLF a good landing than not to PLF a bad one! "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

How was your landing? Soft and painless I hope! "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Wide mix of canopies and wing-loadings. This might be of significance when students are out first and are in the pattern when the video guy who was last out on a Velo loaded @ 2.5 has caught up with them and simply can't out-float a Navigator loaded @ 0.8 "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

And having personal responsibility to pull yourself off a load if you can't handle the wind is another. Had the jumper you mentioned practiced downwinders in lower wind conditions? 15 mph wind does not have to be a problem for downwinders. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

There is nothing wrong with landing down- or cross-wind. Especially in L&V winds. IMO those who make it sound like a big deal are doing the sport a disservice and maybe contributing to low turns as people scramble to face into the wind at the last minute. It seems to me that if we plan and dirt dive a landing pattern and stick to it even if the windsock does swing round then things are going to be much more controlled and predictable. In a situation where the rule is FMD and jumpers are scared to land down- or cross-wind, what happens when the windsock swings just after the first guy lands? "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Not a valid reason, but I think that FMD advocates think that way because they are excessively worried about having to do a down- or cross-wind landing in the event that the wind changes between boarding and landing. If that is the case then a little education and practice on landing other directions that into the wind might be a better answer than FMD. After all, when landing out there may be no option. If that fear is taken away then a pre-determined landing direction makes perfect sense. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

That would probably work, but would be a lot of work for the mod(s). "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

OK dude, I guess you're not open to new ideas. But this is not my idea. This is the opinion of a large number of canopy flight instructors and competitors. For the sake of completeness, nobody is saying to fly a pattern blindly relying on just using the alti, but to use it as a tool to aid accuracy. I am also not saying that it's not possible to fly a good pattern without a digital alti. Finally, I did ask about Velocities in another thread, but not with a view to getting one, a fact which you left out above. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

Well that might be where our answer comes from. I know nothing about gliders, but what are they doing differently? Is it related to the fact they don't generally try to land upwards of 10 at a time in the same place? "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA

I merely asked why it would be a bad thing. Bill has outlined a reasoned argument for why it would be a good thing. I just want to know why the other poster (or you for that matter) thinks it would be a bad thing. Let's have a reasoned debate. State your case, give evidence and then we'll all be wiser. You haven't answered my question yet. "The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls." ~ CanuckInUSA