fasted3

Nah, if I tell you I'll have to kill you. OK You're right, I do want to tell. I probably already did. If you NEVER WANT TO MISROUTE YOUR CHEST STRAP...... ........... ........... NEVER MISROUTE YOUR CHEST STRAP! I think the problem we are talking about is caused by starting to hook up the chest strap and not following through with properly completing the task. I don't think you can reliably train yourself to remember to complete this task. So take it apart. Do it right or don't do it at all. Yes, you MAY forget to do it. I'm not guaranteeing you won't. But if you NEVER LEAVE it half done, I will guarantee that you will NEVER FIND it half done. I am not overconfident with this, and have admitted the possibility that I may forget, one day, to close my chest strap. The one thing I don't see myself doing is putting it together HALF WAY, slipping the tail under the elastic, and thinking I'll get back to this later. I submit that this IS a misrouted chest strap. It is quite possibly a deadly mistake. It can be hard to spot. It should NEVER happen. OK get ready for it... It NEVER WILL with me! And if you see me wandering toward the plane without my chest strap on, helmet, gogglse... shit like that... Go ahead and help a brother out. But what do I know?

Thanks for your reply, and I do understand your point. Your example was forgetting the rig completely. I do have a pretty good way to remember mine, but that is not what this is about. Chest strap: Misrouting. (Still waiting for another definition than Half routing.) I believe that this problem would be solved if: People trained themselves to NEVER leave it half done, or worse, do it half way, then stow the tail. This is possible. Does it prevent forgetting the chest strap altogether? No. But it will prevent doing it half way, then making it look like it's right. Is it possible to train yourself to do this? I think so. It is the method I use, and I've gone about as far as I can to say I think it's a good idea. To repeat: I am not looking for a fight here. I would like to see every skydiver, from now on, put their equipment on in a way that will save their life. If you think that is impossible, that is your opinion. I see no use in you airing that opinion, but I sure can't stop you from saying it. However, I will be here to tell you that it is possible. I can do it, and you can too. But what do I know?

+1. It's quite unlikely you will forget the leg straps with this technique for the unflexible. Did you really mean to make my point for me? IF Scoop truely does ALWAYS put on his leg straps first, FOR WHATEVER REASON, I don't see any way he will EVER find himself on the plane with no leg straps. Am I overconfident with Scoop? Or is this simply an example of a particular technique that happens to result with zero possibility of making a particular miatake? Now if you analyze your technique, is there anything you can do to help prevent mistakes? Have a problem with leg straps? Put em on first, and don't go on till they are. Misrouted chest strap? NEVER do it wrong. Either make it right or take it apart. I am disappointed with the response to my threads on this subject. I admit that it is very basic, and perhaps some are resentful that I am simply stating the obvious, but the fact remains that this is sometimes a problem, and I for one am not ready to accept the idea that skydivers are incapable of getting their equipment on right, Every time. I have offered my thoughts on how we can ALWAYS get this right. If you see a better way to do that, let's hear it. If all you have to offer is 'oh well, that won't work.' Then I say STFU. I believe that we can do better. Maybe there are some that will look at the poll results and ask themselves what exactly is the benefit of being a #4? And should they choose to be a #1 or 2, would they almost completely eliminate one possible problem? Sure, they still have a ton of things ahead of them. Let's make sure they start solving those things with their gear on. M;kay? But what do I know?

I hope that if I ever misroute my chest strap I fall out and die. But what do I know?

You are right. For the record, I am not proposing a BSR on how to put on your rig. Sorry for confusing the sarcasm impared. But what do I know?

Yea, I want a BSR about this... Did I really say that??? I am proposing a rule. A self imposed rule. It goes like this. Never get on a plane without first making sure that you have your gear on right. I live by this rule. Feel free to make your own rules on this matter. I of course should never be listened to, because I once broke a RECOMMENDATION. Sorry for boring everybody with my worthless posts. Carry on. But what do I know?

There's no such thing. Oh. Silly me, thinking I had something to offer. Carry on. But what do I know?

Hey all my vids are cool. They took the music off some of them tho This one is kinda scary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0qexoyEIr4 But what do I know?

Never say never? In this case I WILL say it. I will NEVER misroute my chest strap. I've got a good way to NEVER do that. Do you? But what do I know?

You wouldn't think so, would ya? But did you ever think somebody would jump out of an airplane with their leg straps off? I didn't. But it did happen, and apparently, it is a problem that has happened before. To you, in fact, or did I read that part wrong? If not, please elaborate on your jump. Why did it happen? How could it have been prevented? I'm not trying to pick any fights here, but I was touched by the recent needless fatality that proves that this topic should be addressed. Does anybody disagree with my assessment that this should NEVER have happened, or that it should NEVER happen again? I will not appologize for using the word NEVER. This should NEVER happen, and if I have anything to do with it, will NEVER happpen again. OK, so why should you listen to me? As has been pointed out, I don't have the most jump numbers. Maybe I am just some loudmouth that thinks he's too good to ever make a mistake. That is not my point. I am fully capable of forgetting ANYTHING. So how did I manage to put on my gear properly throughout my commercial diving career, making thousands of dives, and NEVER having a gear issue? See attached pic. Let me assure you that the gear you see is far more difficult to put on RIGHT, EVERY TIME, than putting on my rig. So how do the 'pros' do it? Leaving things to 'remember' to do later? Or devising a plan that prevents making mistakes? It can be done. I see some posts above that make me believe those folks will never make a (leg strap) mistake. I see others that I'm not so sure. If necessary, I would devise a routine that required kissing the tire on the airplane before I got on it. If that's what it takes to get me on the plane ready to jump out of it without forgetting something, I would do it. (Not yet, thankfully.) I don't care if your plan has you putting on your stuff in any particular order. But devise a plan, and stick to it. Next person to jump out without their leg straps is gonna be in trouuuubbbblllllllleeeeee! Don't let it be you. Now on to chest straps. edited to add attachment. go figure But what do I know?

I think that it is a possibility that you MAY miss them when jumping a wingsuit. Bullshit. I do jump a wingsuit, and I ALWAYS put my leg straps on first. It will NEVER HAPPEN if I NEVER deviate from that procedure. There are many who have and I can guarantee that they NEVER thought they would either. This has nothing to do with THINKING they would remember to do something, and everything to do with developing a fool proof system for yourself that will make sure that it NEVER happens. Mine guarantees that I won't forgegt my leg straps. Maybe it doesn't guarantee anything else, which I don't claim it does, but it does indeed guaran-fucking-tee that my leg straps are on. Get it? Not to knock your experience or jump numbers (assuming your info is up to date), but some of those jumpers have 3 times the total of your numbers and experience on wingsuits alone. I don't care how many jumps you or any of them have. This is stuff I figured out (and got trained on,) before I got my A license. It works as well now as it did then. I have personally witnessed a jumper that did not get his legs through his leg strap when wearing a wing suit. He was very heads up jumper. His words when he landed..... "how could I be so stupid as to miss my leg straps!!!!" I KNOW how it happened. Maybe you can figure it out too. BTW: You are welcome too on the leg strap thread. This response may have been overly harsh, and I would like to avoid flames with this discussion, so sorry if I went too far. But what do I know?

I'm missing your point. I think it is entirely possible to eliminate a certain problem, IE: Jumping out of an airplane without having one's legs through the leg straps of one's rig. Is your point my use of the word never? Here is another one: If I EVER jump out of an airplane without first putting my legs through the straps, I will NEVER jump again. Fair enough? I do have a point with this, and I invite further discussion. I have started a new thread: Leg straps. Seeya there. But what do I know?

Your goal is acomplished by this sentence. Nothing was accomplished by yours. When do you put on your leg staps format? 2 votes but no explinations. Come on #4s, explain why you use a system that is so flawed. But what do I know?

Not everyone who died in 2008 died because they made a mistake. Sometimes accidents just happen, even to highly intelligent, well-trained, safety-conscious people. You are correct. In other words: You CAN do everything right and still die. But think about this: The overwhelming majority of those that DID die... DIDN'T do everything right. We can do better. But what do I know?

Why: Well, i've never forgotten them so far. Thanks for the reply. We think alike. So what about the vote for #4 somebody made? What is the reason for this? I have heard one reason: It looks cool. Is that it? To me it looks STUPID! Feel free to disagree. But what do I know?

From another thread. When do you put on your leg straps? I pick 1. In fact, I won't put on the rig without stepping in first. I also won't ever find myself without leg straps - the way I see it. Mainly, I wonder at group 4. Do you sometimes wait till the last minute to get those straps on? Why? But what do I know?

Great place for a canopy course too. But what do I know?

I will ask you the same question as above: Do you think I will ever forget my leg straps? Consider that my procedure dictates stepping in as the first step, and I will not go further without it. Yes I forget things, that is the point. Proper procedure can prevent this type of mistake. If everybody followed my procedure, would this not prevent everybody from ever making that mistake? Am I missing something? PS Car keys: Never shut off the car without taking the keys out. Never close the door without reaching in and touching the keyhole first. If your life depended on it, that would be the way to go. But what do I know?

Couple years ago I took my 80 jump logbook and headed on a skydive trip. New Orleans to Raeford NC. Thought about stopping on the way and checked out Alabama and Georgia. Seemed like some BS going on there as far as finding a place that was really there so I said the heck with it and kept driving. Had a great time in NC and found out that the Farm was the real deal, and there was indeed a bunch of BS going on with some other DZs. I went to the Farm and had a great time. Didn't try any other place. Later on I heard the Skyride story. Point is, those bums screwed it up for every DZ in two states in a way, I think they are a stain on skydiving. You seem to realize that they are pretty sleazy, and your attitude goes a long way with me. Next time I go that way I'll stop by. But what do I know?

When you say many people feel as I do, I think you mean: 'I will never make a mistake.' Which I did say. (re: leg straps and chest strap.) But how many people feel as I do: Develop a foolproof routine. Make it a ritual. Follow it like you're life depends on it. That was the safety tip I wanted to get across. I agree with you that simply thinking one is incapable of making a mistake is foolish, however, a proper routine can eliminate mistakes. Do you think I will ever forget my leg straps? (...sure as hell better not after this...) BTW, I'm sure we are on the same side here. Do everything you can to get it right, Don't get compacent. Look out for others. My advice just has to do with getting it right in the first place. But what do I know?

As you pointed out, there was not much to celebrate on either of the Bush 'victories.' Any money spent on the last party would have been better spent on protecting the soldiers fighting the war he started. The situation is much different this time around. We have a clear winner, and like it or not, have to hope he does a good job and get behind him. In a way I would like to see a grand gesture of govt. economy by Obama, but this is not the time for it. A lot of our economic problems are due to a lack of confidence rather than a lack of money. Projecting an image of America that can't afford to launch this guy properly is hardly a way to generate confidence, Maybe a good show here will help turn things around. OTOH, I would like to see him pick up the abandoned quest to cut waste and BS from govt. He seems like a smart guy so far. Maybe he will be a good president. We are overdue for one I'd say. But what do I know?

I agree that everyone makes mistakes from time to time, and I am no exception. Far from it; I've forgotten my helmet, goggles, altimeter, hook knife, and would have forgotten a vital body part, no doubt, if they weren't attached. But I will never forget my leg straps. And, I will never misroute my chest strap. No doubt the keyboard warriors are making mental notes to bring up this post when I do forget them and burn in. But I won't. Donning my gear is a ritual. I start by stepping into my straps. If my rig is on, my leg straps are on. I finish by properly routing my chest strap and tightening it, then stowing the excess. If my chest strap is on, it is properly routed - that simple. I have not deviated from this since I was a student, and it works for me. I came to this sport late in life. I was a commercial diver, and have been well schooled in donning life saving equipment. I could not afford to do ANYTHING WRONG - EVER! Try turning on your bail out bottle at -300 feet and realizing it's not hooked up. Guess what - common mistake I learned how to hook up everything myself, and test as I went. Where other guys would stand there and let a tender gear him up, I did everything myself. I was forgetful then too, but I never screwed up in 20 years. I followed a procedure, the same way every time; I call it a ritual. This works people. If you rely on remembering to get your stuff right later, eventually, you won't. If you are strutting around with your leg straps slapping you on the butt, I have to ask you what the heck you are thinking? If you slip your chest strap on and it's not routed right, why on earth stop without MAKING it right, before you do another thing? If you can't do that, take it all the way loose. You are a lot less likely to jump out with it off than with it 'almost' right. I just don't put on my gear 'almost right.' If it's on, I know it's on right. Being fairly new at skydiving, I came up in a time without gear checks being what they apparently once were. It just hasn't been a tradition with me, and honestly, that fits my style just fine. If I don't know you, I'd just as soon you didn't handle my gear. I checked it before I put it on, (that's part of the ritual too,) and I know it's right. How do I know you even know what to look for, or that you'll put it back right? Of course, If I have any suspicion something has been dislodged, I will not hesitate to ask for a check. I am certainly not against gear checks either, each person should make their own decisions about it, I would just never rely on anybody else for my own gear. I'm sorry for turning this into an essay, or lecture or something, but I think it is entirely possible to completely eliminate forgetting leg straps and misrouting chest straps if this advice were taken to heart. Develop a foolproof procedure. Make it a ritual. Get it right every time. Putting on skydiving equipment is mission critical. Put it on right, or don't put it on at all. But what do I know?

Don't see why not. But more to the point, why would you? I don't. In fact, I wear my chest strap tight and don't loosen it at all. Personal choice, but I like my handles where they are supposed to be. After giving it some thought though, I figured it could be done if somebody wanted to. But what do I know?

Don't see why not. Here is one I thought of: Usually I push up my goggles after I open. Wanting to look like a cool kid I get some gatorz and can't take them off. I land off in a cotton field. Here is the thing, if I had been wearing my regular goggles, I bet they would have been up on my helmet and I'd have had cotton branches poking my eyes. Lesson: If you're landing off, consider keeping the goggles on. Happy landings But what do I know?

Hey Lurch, Life is good. Looking forward to flying with you again this coming year.