UDSkyJunkie

AAGH! That's a scary one! Ain't that the truth. I pointed out a mis-routed cheststrap on a guy with 400 jumps when I had only about 25. I've seen 3-rings misrouted, and RSL's clipped to the large ring of the 3-ring. Main bridle routed out the bottom, pinned, then back in the top and out the bottom again. Reserve cables pulled out to the ball so that it goes out from under the flap and the pin is almost horizontal in the loop. The list goes on. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

Original setup (at 50 jumps): Vector III PD 9-Cell 170 Micro-Raven 150 Cypres At 100 jumps: swapped main for a Sabre 135 At 650 jumps: swapped main for a Sabre2 120 swapped reserve for PDR-126 added skyhook to Vector III No reason to swap out any of my current gear anytime soon, although I'd like to build a 2nd rig. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

It's hard to say if we create that situation or not, although I see your point. In my observation, the people who are not interetsed in downsizing beyond their first purchase seem to be conservative and self-thinking enough to ignore the "you must downsize" mantra. The one area where I really do agree with you is smaller people. You'll see a 110-lb girl looking to buy her first canopy, and she's perfectly happy with a 190 spectre and not interested in downsizing, maybe because she's not a speed freak and isn't a natural canopy pilot either. And then 10 people all tell her it's waaaay too big of a canopy and she shouldn't waste her money on a 190 loaded 0.7:1 when she'll be bored in 50 jumps, and instead she should buy a 150 or 135. Then they say that she can borrow a 190 for a few weeks, then a 170 for a few weeks, ect before jumping her new 135... of course that never happens. Then again, I'm not one to talk. I bought a Sabre 135 (W/L 1.1:1) at 100 jumps after only 50-ish on a PD-170. Never had any problems, but canopy piloting came to me easier than most, and my DZ had a million huge fields as outs, so I was never forced to land in someone's back yard. Depends on one's personality I guess... for me it's easy. Don't get me wrong I love skydiving, but I need constant challenges and goals, or I get bored quickly. In 05 and 06 when I was training for 4-way I was NEVER bored. This year I don't have that, and it's been a struggle. I've started organizing, and that's been fun, but I almost never get to challenge my flying skills. I got my AFF rating, and that is definately a challenge, but it still lacks a long-term goal. I was bored as hell at the eloy christmas boogie because most dives required very little skill, and I didn't have the connections to get in on the good dives (though I definately had the ability). "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

Also when slinks became commonplace and sliders were suddenly much more likley to slam into the toggles, thus dislodging them. The not stowing the brake line thing is a real issue if you ask me. On smaller canopies, probably not a big deal because the loop is so short, but I see people jumping a spectre 210 with two feet of exposed loop, and it just seems they are asking for trouble. That said... I've pointed this issue out to a couple of people with giant exposed loops, and they've asked me how to stow the line. On some risers THERE IS NOWHERE TO STOW IT! No velcro, no loops, no trulok pin, nothing! Sometimes you can fold it up and put it between the toggle keeper and the guide ring, but in the case of a 2-foot loop (esp if it's *gasp* dacron) I think that's asking for trouble too. For that matter, good riser designs like Trulok and others are insufficient for those large loops also. When did velcro become so evil that noone will put it on a riser to retain the loop? I don't buy the line wear argument... when done properly there isnt' that much extra wear, and the lower brake line is the highest-wear line anyway. Harness manufacturers need to provide a riser product that allows jumpers to safley stow their brake lines. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

The skyhook is an improved version of the RSL (reserve static line). I'm sure you were at least introduced to the RSL in your student training. I'll summarize the differences: The RSL is a lanyard that connects one of your main risers with your reserve pin. If you have a malfunctioning canopy above you, when you cut away, the riser leaving pulls the reserve pin, and the reserve canopy is quickly deployed. Note that in some situations (specifically in total malfunctions where the main is not out) the RSL cannot do it's job. All student gear is required by the BSR's to be equipped with an RSL, and many experienced jumpers use them also. The RSL is available as an option on all harness/container systems. The Skyhook takes this a bit further. The lanyard is connected to the reserve pin AND the reserve freebag. Where an RSL pulls the pin and allows the reserve pilot chute to do it's job, the skyhook attaches the main directly to the reserve bag and allows the main to act as a giant reserve pilotchute. Since the main is much larger than the normal reserve pilotchute, it does it's job in less altitude. In a spinning malfunction, the faster nature of the skyhook also reduces the (already very small) chance that your spinning body could become entangled in the reserve bridle as is possible with a standard RSL. Currently, the skyhook is availble on Vector III's and Javelins, although several other manufactuerers are working with UPT to have them installed on their rigs. Vector III is the only container that currently allows the skyhook to be added as a modification after original manufacture. Do a search as said above, and check out www.relativeworkshop.com for more information. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

"Student" harness/container systems are definately not what one would buy for themselves. They have features that are unnecessary and add complexity to the rig. These features may include adjustable harnesses, setups for static-line jumping, handles that allow instructors to activate the main from the reserve side, a single-handle (SOS) system that simultaneously cuts away the main and pulls the reserve... none of these things would be used by an experienced jumper (with the occasional exception of the SOS system). The "more forgiving" aspect of student gear is the canopy. The canopies are larger (usually 200 - 300 square feet vs. typical sizes of 120 - 210 for experienced jumpers, with extreme sizes down to 79 square feet and below). They are designed to open more cleanly and consistantly, be less sensitive to uneven input, provide a reasonable landing with imperfect flare technique, lose less altitude during turns, ect. Most people buy a first canopy that is not all that different from a student canopy (same size or maybe a little smaller, and similar flight characteristics). Most active new jumpers then decide to buy a smaller, faster canopy after a few hundred jumps or a couple of years. If you buy something brand new for $1800 and then have to sell it for $1000 two years later, you might regret it. For this reason, most people recommend buying their first canopy used, so it can then be sold at a much smaller loss of only a couple hundred bucks. Since containers are designed for a specific range of canopy sizes, it's often a good idea to get your first container used as well, since it may not fit the future smaller canopy. The disadvantage to this is you don't get a custom harness, so it won't be as comfortable. Any modern gear (last 10 years or so) is constructed well, safe for any flying style, and made from virtually the same materials. The only compelling saftey feature IMO is the skyhook, which is available on the Vector III and on new Javelin Odysseys. Beyond that, it's a matter of what is comfortable, what is priced well, and what you think is asthetically pleasing. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

Gotta agree with that... considering that the pressure difference between say, 150m and 160m is about 110 pa (absolute pressure ~10,000 pa), you're looking at two devices to have a calibration error of less than 0.1% to read consistantly within 10m of each other. They are different brands with different algorithms, calibrated in different facilities and in different locations on your body (one on your hand, the other in your helmet). If what you say is true and consistant (which I imagine it is), then what your describing might make sense with those two devices. Although that doesn't necessarily mean a 2nd optima/neptune combination would display the same behavior. I also agree that you should be able to adjust your swoop to account for a small altitude difference... even from my relatively low turn altitude of 400 feet (for 270) I find that temperature, wind, up/down drafts, and my own inconsistancies in the turn can be the difference between a perfect swoop and planing out 80 feet too high if I go exactly on the beep and don't do anything to adjust mid-turn. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

I've packed a former teammate of mine's 343 with a PDR-160 in it... it fit but just barely, there is NO WAY you could get a standard PDR-176 in there. If it's true that you can go up one size on the Optimum, you probably could get a 176 in once it comes out... probably still be tight. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

I agree with that much. Discussing behavior in an anonymous way is fine, and I think that's exactly what the original poster did. Demanding names should not be done in a public forum IMO. You've been around the block... who was the last underage person you saw jump? Was there a waiver? How often has that occured on your own DZ (even if not recently)? And how is it falsified if it's filed? Late yes, but not falsified. We've all been guilty of "begging forgivness instead of asking permission". The OP did not do that... he didn't name names, and he didn't suggest punishment. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

At the time of my post, I did not know who the person is quesiton was (nor was I interested in learning). It was a response to a general question, and I stand by it. It was not appropriate. I don't care if it's guy wright or jared ashley... If I had done that, it wouldn't have been appropriate either. We all fuck up now and then. Although I vaugely recall the name, I do not know this organizer personally. I don't know where he is from or what his history is, and I have no idea if this incident is normal or isolated. I therefore refuse to speculate further on that topic. I don't know who you are, other than that you're an angry richmond jumper (or ex-richmond jumper for all I know) who's bringing up an unrelated topic from an unrelated thread that has already been beaten to death. However, I'm 100% certain that in your claimed 34 years in the sport YOU have done lots of shit that violated the BSR's, just like everyone else, myself included. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

I found the same thing... When I went from 190 to 170 it was very little difference. 170 to 150, same thing. 150 to 135, still not that different (that whole progression took like 50 jumps total). But hundreds of jumps later when I went to a 120, suddenly the difference was HUGE! I think there's just a point somewhere around 1.3 - 1.5 W/L (esp on sub-150 canopies) where the speed just seems to really pick up. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

I know people with 600 jumps who land less than 50% on their feet. First, RELAX! You don't have to be perfect just yet. Second, talk to your instructors (duh!) since they actually are watching you... if they can't help you, sure as hell nobody here can, since we have no idea what you're doing. Beyond that, I'd say watch a LOT of landings, and really pay attention to what people are doing (how high do they flare? how quickly? how smoothly? where are their arms? how do they hold their legs and feet? how high do they stall?) Obviously watching the hot-shots land their velo 84's won't help you here... you have to watch the "boring" landings on big canopies. A picture is worth 1,000 words, right? Ask someone to video some of your landings. Try to have them video you from the front so you can see everything. Then you can see what's going wrong. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

I can't agree more. Fuck what the other jumpers might say (excluding your instructors). They weren't there, and they don't know what it was like, period. I had a girlfriend who chopped from tension knots on jump 17, did a great job. A few people gave her shit about it and how "they would have landed it", blah, blah. Then she had tension knots on jump 25 (bad luck happens). Figured out she could keep it going strait if she kept one toggle all the way down, so she tried to land it. At flare time, she let the toggles up and flared... predictably, the result was a low turn and a broken leg. Did she screw up? yeah. But you know what... the real idiot wasn't her, it was the people who told her she could land a canopy with tension knots at 25 jumps. A lot of people with thousands of jumps either have never had a real malfunction, or forget that when you've got 10, or 50, or 100 jumps, maybe you can't actually tell the difference yet between a streamer and a possibly fixable line-over. So what they have to say is completely irrelevant. When in doubt, whip it out. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

I wonder that too. Personally, it depends on the dive. 4-way training dives I'm not interested... want to focus. Casual dives I'll do the handshake, but it's really for everyone else, not for me. On the other hand, I'll go out of my way to do the handshake with AFF students and such; I want them to feel part of the group, and it usually makes them smile. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

When you push the nose into the center of the canopy, you're pushing the lines out from the center. They can wrap around things, get out of order, get slack in them, ect. Messy lines lead to a much greater probability of a lineover (and pretty much every other partial malfunction for that matter). Rule number 1 of packing: lines in the center, fabric away from the center. Everything else can look like crap, but if the lines are in the center and straight, it's probably fine. Anyone who's ever seen the Golden Knights' 3-minute packjob knows this! "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

I don't think you can ever put "too much" thought into a rig, but I think I know what you're getting at... some rigs are just over-engineered, and too many "features" can be a pain. The strong tandem comes to mind. And some things like the Icon 3-ring design and the Javelin fabric options seem a little gimmicky to me. Although I have to admit vector's new magnetic riser covers are just as silly IMO. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

I vote Vector, due to the skyhook. I know other manufacturers are getting skyhook, just not when (so far I only know of Javelins). Used can save a LOT of money, but you'd better have a rigger/instructor help you out to make sure you get a good deal. If it's cheap enough, rigs can be re-sized within reason (I bought a "used" vector III with zero jumps for $650, then had the harness adjusted for $150, including shipping). "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

It was almost 8 years ago that I did my first AFF (5th jump), but I still remember it vividly. I had broken my collarbone playing football right after my last tandem, so there was a good 2 month break prior to the first solo. When the day came, I was super-excited and filled with anxiety, and I remember driving to the DZ at like 95 miles an hour (I swear to god I couldn't have driven slower if I tried). Anyway, once the waiting was over I started the walkthrough, gear-up, ect I found the level of anxiety to drop... I think just having something to do and think about helped distract from the fear. I kept going down, and by the time I got to the door I was surprisingly calm. A lot of other jumpers and students have told me similar stories. As soon as we left the door, there was zero fear and it was very liberating. It also cemented the desire to continue for me. On the tandems I was pretty sure I wanted to continue, but that first solo was what finally made me KNOW. Good luck... go kick that jump's ass! P.S. that feeling can come back... I remember my first 4-way competition jump and my first nationals jump, and I was at least as nervous/excited as on the first jump and first solo. The feeling of overcoming that is awesome! "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

Yep... my team in '06 did a TON of creeping. We started in february in my garage, maybe twice a month. Then during the season we met every wednesday to creep for a couple hours... worked out a lot of issues that we wouldn't have had time for during weekend training. It paid off... we went from 8.2 to 11.6 in 150 jumps, and the first half of those were out of a Casa. Not shabby for some punks in Ohio. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

I glanced through those FAQ's, and I find some things I like about the Argus: - use of standard lithium batteries. I've never understood why Airtec insists on using batteries that cost $85. - replacement cutters are free if you file a report... not that I would ever intend to take advantage of that, but cutters are normally $200+. - waterproofness is better than Cypres2. no filter to be replaced. I'm still a conservative Cypres snob, and will allow others to test-jump the Argus for awhile, but I may consider it in the future. The vigil is a good product, and my DZ uses it in all their gear, but I will personally not purchase it as I think the lack of a 4-year check is a mistake. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

Not appropriate. Period. Organizers, DZO's, Instructors, and (yes!) experienced jumpers have a responsibility to follow the rules. After all, if the hot-shit jumpers aren't following them, why would anyone else bother? Furthermore, those are the people who MADE the rules, which is just hypocritial. A culture of saftey starts at the top... 100 jump wonders will NEVER follow the rules if the 5000+ jump skygods don't lead by example. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

While I personally choose only to buy the Cypres, and I RECOMMEND the Cypres over Vigil and Argus to others, I think "only buy a Cypres" is too strong. Cypress is much more established... as said, with 12+ years and tens of thousands of units in the field, a LOT of bugs have been worked out. Vigil and Argus use essentially the same technology, but have only been out for a few years and have very little field data yet. The result is they are having more misfires (firing when it shouldn't), although to date I haven't heard of a failure (NOT firing when it should) on either Vigil or Argus. I think the Cypres has a better maintenance program (which is to say, has one at all), although I admit the Vigil is built more robustly. I don't claim to know much about the Argus, as it's not popular in my region. Cypres's (cypri???) should not be hard to come by... I would think actually due to their numbers they are much easier to find use than the other brands, and due to their relative age should be available cheaper (although the 12 year max life must be paid attention). "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

Well, that's always a problem. My favorite ever was a guy who was pushed into a swimming pool at a party at our DZO's house. He spontaneously decided to do a front-flip when pushed, but it didn't work out that well and he ended up splitting his skull open when the bottle of beer he was holding got between his forhead and the edge of the pool. No big deal in the end, some stiches was all... but a very funny story! "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

I'm a rigger and voted 180 days, but here's a more detailed thought process: For the typical jumper, once a year is plenty, but for the very active jumper, perhaps more often due to wear and tear, especially in southern DZ's with a lot of dust, saltwater, UV, thornbushes... I would say 1 year or 500 jumps, whichever comes first. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

It's good to see someone have this revelation early on... I encourage you to print your post out and put it somewhere where you'll see it and can be reminded of it whenever you get a little ahead of yourself in the future. I don't know you or your background, but I want to share a little of my experience. I was around this sport at 1 year old, so when I finally did my first jump at 18, I thought I knew a lot (which, compared to a typical student I did... but compared to an experienced jumper, I didn't know crap). I had to be knocked down a couple of pegs before I could really progress. I got on a decent 4-way team at 450ish jumps, and I thought I knew a lot (again, compared to a typical 500-jump wonder, I did, but compared to an experienced 4-way guy, I didn't know crap). I had to be knocked back down again before my skills increased. This year, I decided to get my Coach and AFF ratings, and the process repeated... I thought it would be easier than it was. The sport for me has been a repeating process of getting a little ahead of myself, being publicly humbled, picking myself up and decidating myself to improvment, and coming out a much stronger flier (and person). One teammate, a very experienced 4-way guy, once told me around the fire that there were days he just wanted to hit me, and that I can get cocky. He then said "but that's ok... I NEED you to be a little cocky" because that's what makes people fly agressively and think they can do anything. The trick is focusing that aggression and confidence in such a way that skills improve instead of just becoming a "skygod" or a know-it-all who doesn't get any better. Keep it up, and prepare to look like a dumbass periodically. It's good for you, and it'll help you improve. And eventually you'll be able to look back and laugh at your mistakes. "Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."