virgin-burner

Safety and skydiving, this always makes me laugh hard inside When will people realize that if you truly want to be safe you should go bowling and even then you can have traumas P.S. I don't have anything against people who chose to do one over the other, it's your free choice, but again I'm not cool with the nazi rule enforcers

yes! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda

great, we'll let pops decide, he has the answers to each and everything! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda

try jumping in europe! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda

so what do you say to my proposition two or three posts further up!? it may not only raise safety, but should help keep stupid away, too! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda

and i just found this gem “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda

It's not. ...out of the 20 or so "open canopy"-related incidents, my guess would be that AT LEAST half of those were from people with - thousands of jumps. And the other half weren't. are you really trying to make me look it all up again!? there's sheeple everywhere, wouldnt that be a reason for the "high profilers" to set a good example and exchange their pocket-rockets to something more sensitive like 210 navigators? i mean, since even "having learned over the course of thousands of jumps" wont save you from blood and gore!? even at a rate of 50%, maybe there should be rules in place that you cant jump anything smaller than that 210 i've mentioned further up!? Why a 210? Why not a 250, or a 400? You are using the same argument that many have, and it is - like it or not - hypocritical. You want certain skydivers to modify their behavior to meet what you consider an acceptable safety level, but would certainly refuse to modify your own behavior if you considered it acceptably safe. Skydiving is dangerous but we still do it. Jumping in turbulent winds increases the danger, yet some still jump. Doing CReW increases the odds of a wrap, but some still yell contact. It's not about flying fast canopies. It's about doing it well. chuck, like it or not, but it's what i'm trying to say. everyone here is complaining about people dying under good canopies which is by far unnecessary. then there's always WL's coming up, sizes of canopies, we all know the drill. it's getting old! obviously, people want to fly small parachutes; ok, now since that is out of the way, why not make a canopy-course mandatory in order to aquire an A-license for example. maybe set the 25 jumps requirement up to say 50!? i think this would be the more "sensitive" reply to the current trend of dying under a good canopy. oh, i can already hear the outcry, "it diminishes even more students because of the cost!". well, tough tiddies mate, if you want to make skydiving a pure buisness, you're shit-out-of-luck, because if you want to keep skydiving safe, you need to focus more on your students to a maybe later stage of their progression in order to increase their canopy-piloting-skills and make them more aware of what they're actually doing. oh yea, that is MUCH MORE COMPLICATED than to just say: "LET'S BAN THIS AND THAT AND HERE'S THE RULES!". “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda

bill, honestly, as much as i respect and like your input; i call BS on that one. that is STUPID. maybe we should ban stupidness!? “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda

Actually I believe it is precisely because so many experienced jumpers have died this year that the USPA and general community woke up and started to re-evaluate the situation. It seems many people want the reward, without the sweat and learning involved. I get the same behaviour from my 11 year old, wants to learn guitar but doesn't want to do the scales. At the end of the day it is no different. That is the frustrating part I am sure. so, what would be your "solution" to the situation at hand!? ban anything smaller than a 150? 210? no more ellipticals!? WHAT!? Not at all. Firstly in the SIM it has a suggestion that A & B licenses stay below 1.0:1, C license below 1.2:1 and that anything less than 150 should really be reserved for D licenses. Right now the culture is to completely ignore that advice. Secondly I think Krissanes thread that she linked to was spot on. How many times are people told that they will "out grow" a 1.0:1 wingloading within a 100 jumps? Other people have alluded to it, but if you want to jump an advanced parachute (referencing again the SIM limits above), get proper training and pursue it with due diligence and vigour. Flying an advanced parachute, means that the descent is not "just the final portion of getting to the ground", but it becomes a substantial part of the jump. In face taken to it's extreme it becomes THE jump, where freefall is entirely sacrified. wait-wait-wait, u're in the UK, right!? SIM, that's USPA, right? i think you jump under BPA, right? what about us folks here that dont have that A/B/C/D-crap? what about us? i'd still opt for EDUMUCATION, but that's just me..

Actually I believe it is precisely because so many experienced jumpers have died this year that the USPA and general community woke up and started to re-evaluate the situation. It seems many people want the reward, without the sweat and learning involved. I get the same behaviour from my 11 year old, wants to learn guitar but doesn't want to do the scales. At the end of the day it is no different. That is the frustrating part I am sure. so, what would be your "solution" to the situation at hand!? ban anything smaller than a 150? 210? no more ellipticals!? WHAT!? “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda

It's not. ...out of the 20 or so "open canopy"-related incidents, my guess would be that AT LEAST half of those were from people with - thousands of jumps. And the other half weren't. are you really trying to make me look it all up again!? there's sheeple everywhere, wouldnt that be a reason for the "high profilers" to set a good example and exchange their pocket-rockets to something more sensitive like 210 navigators? i mean, since even "having learned over the course of thousands of jumps" wont save you from blood and gore!? even at a rate of 50%, maybe there should be rules in place that you cant jump anything smaller than that 210 i've mentioned further up!? “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda

It's not. oh, it's not? how many "high profilers" we've had this year already? i'm too lazy to look it up, but out of the 20 or so "open canopy"-related incidents, my guess would be that AT LEAST half of those were from people with - thousands of jumps. saying "it's not", doesnt make it true or false. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda

What are you talking about? There are some top level canopy pilots around. Ian is on the PDFT (they're "kinda" good canopy pilots). Even Windmiller posts, although a bit less than he used to. so, same question to you as to sparky which he never replied to: why does it seem it's mostly skydivers with THOUSANDS of jumps hooking themselves in and sometimes killing others in the process!? you know, it's not that i disagree completely with what you guys have to say, not at all. apparently, having learned over the "course of thousands of jumps" doesnt save you from dying under a perfectly good canopy. and whenever this is brought up, the forum goes completely silent.. ^^i have an idea why that is.. but i'd like to hear it from someone else. besides, i think ian hasnt only broken bones once but twice IIRC. would you tell ian he should upsize!? “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda

that is NOT the classic creampie.. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda

You, sir, remind me of Sangi. Same manner of talking in dz.com. Ironic, somehow you both have same home dz... they have a high average of "mad skillz"-jumpers!? “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda

Brilliant, what’s that say about us? But I have an excuse, I am retired and no longer jump. So that leaves just you. Sparky got anything else to say to the rest of my post!? “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda

apparently, it's mostly the "old and wise" jumpers hooking themselves in; i believe you are contradicting yourself.. anyway, this is the internet, and i'd rather trust my local mentors or coaches than anyone from here.. BTW, i dont know if you've noticed, but most of the REALLY good fliers, be them canopy pilots or whatever, hardly ever post on here. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda

I would be pissed too. It would still be my own choice. Private citizens are not required by law to put ourselves in harms way to render aid, so its a freely made choice if we do so. it is here. if you approach an accident, u're obliged to render help/first aid. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda

Those guys didn't have a clue, it was an attempted suicide when they approached the wreck. They just did the right thing in rendering aid. They recieved injuries in the process, which is a part of the risk being a 'good samaritin'. If, they couldn't accept the risk, they shouldn't have done it in the first place. Also, had they known in advance it was an attempted suicide, does this mean they should not intervene and just let her kill herself? The whole thing is screwed-up. Getting recognized at a medal ceremony wasn't enough? What did those guys expect? What were they 'really' looking for? Chuck yay, then the family of the "victim" could have sued them! fuck your "sue happy"-mentality! (not you as in YOU)

I'm thoroughly disgusted by people that refuse to accept responsibility for their choices. So what if she tried to kill herself? They CHOSE to render aid. She isnt responsible for their choices. They could have left her to burn. It was up to them. They made a choice and they have to live with the results. at least where i live, it's an offense or whatever your lay-term is for that; "unterlassene hilfeleistung", meaining something like "failing to help". you'll go to a court for that. “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda

Those guys didn't have a clue, it was an attempted suicide when they approached the wreck. They just did the right thing in rendering aid. They recieved injuries in the process, which is a part of the risk being a 'good samaritin'. If, they couldn't accept the risk, they shouldn't have done it in the first place. Also, had they known in advance it was an attempted suicide, does this mean they should not intervene and just let her kill herself? The whole thing is screwed-up. Getting recognized at a medal ceremony wasn't enough? What did those guys expect? What were they 'really' looking for? Chuck yay, then the family of the "victim" could have sued them! fuck your "sue happy"-mentality! (not you as in YOU)

That is 20 years of history and multiple dz's. I am sure it is low compared to people who have been constantly in the sport for that length of time. sorry, meant to put a -smiley; it was meant as "tongue-in-cheek"-comment..

dayum, can you let us know where you jump? seems like an unsafe place to me! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda

“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda