Baksteen

The usual trick to surviving a fall like that is to throw your body at the ground and miss. Also, don't listen to anyone saying "You can't possibly be flying" because if you start believing them they will be suddenly, irrevocably and painfully be right. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

Collapse resistance in places where rotors are an issue is a big one. Too many of my lighter (mostly female) friends have suffered broken backs. My bit of advise is to ask experienced jumpers (i.e. S&TA?) at your DZ if there are practical reasons to downsize, and demo canopies when the opportunity presents itself (i.e. at a boogie). We do not have rotors/dust devils at my DZ. But the thing is, a smaller canopy isn't just about WL - it is also more sensitive to input due to shorter lines. When the word "downsizing" is used, usually a different, more agressive canopy is implied. So the larger WL might help in turbulence (though I have never seen a Manta 288 collapse), but the other side of the coin might very well be that the small(er) canopy behaves more nervously in turbulence. My Storm 190 might shake, rattle and roll - but so far it stayed overhead. Even in the jumps that scared me enough to stand down for the rest of the day. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

Short answer: No there isn't. The decision to downsize is (or rahter should be) a balance between whether it is safe to do so, and whether it is more fun. Basically it boils down to how many jumps you plan to make and what your focus is. If you are über current, making 4-500 jumps every year then you might at some point feel that a more sporting canopy is an option. If you see your canopy purely as something that's there to survive the freefall (direct quote), please stay on the larger wing. Obviously these are extreme examples. I mostly do CReW jumps with a WL of 1.35-1.37, which is the norm for the groups I usually jump with. For the rare occasions that I do a freefall, I jump a 190 at 1.1-1.2ish. Why? Because 1) I have it lying around 2) I do so little FS that when/if I pick it up again I want to be able to fully focus on that part of the jump. The 190 is nice and forgiving and a welcome "reset moment" during the jump. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

That it certainly isn't...and I'm talking from experience here. But it happens only very rarely that a student brainlocks that badly. In the ten years that I'm jumping I know of only one instance. I was that (static line) student's JM and tried to follow as best I could instead of making for the DZ. After I landed I could see that the student landed OK on the other side of a corn field. The DZ van left the LZ as soon as the last of the other jumpers had landed and picked both of us up soon after. Off-landings by one or two fields do occur sometimes. But we're in a flat country in which outs are plentiful, so it is very uncommon indeed that the instructor on the ground cannot see where (and how) the student lands. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

That reminds me of the time my DZ organised an event in which jump tickets (up to 6K ft) were only ten euros. Pay as you go, no club membership required. At least one visiting jumper was complaining that we didn't hire a larger aircraft, since we should have foreseen that it would be a busy day. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

FIFY. Whoops. Thanks :) More bad movies, some of which used to have quite a cult status but just can't cut it anymore when viewed with 2018-eyes: The stuff Killer Klowns from Outer Space Sharknado II Sharktopus Kung Pow! Enter the fist. This is a parody on a bad movie, which tries too hard and therefore fails utterly. Shame, because the concept is actually pretty good. Wee-oo-weee-oo! "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

Well, if we're discussing bad movies, I'd like to bring a few Golden (if rather tarnished) oldies into the mix: You'll have to search for them, but this is my favourite Bad Movie Night shortlist: "Samurai Cop" A film which does not only contain painfully bad fighting scenes and laughable acting, but which is so low budget that they actually have to "recycle" the bad guys who get slaughtered by the hero. "Surf nazi's must die" At the beginning some kid is killed for no apparant reason. Then a whole load of absolutely nothing starts happening, with several rather abrupt interruptions with random surfing footage which has no apparant connection whatsoever to what is supposed to be the story. Then, some ten minutes from the end, the grandmother of the kid who died in the beginning picks up a gun and kills everyone. On second thought, just watch the trailer on Youtube - it contains all the lowlights of the film, but has the major saving grace of being rather short. "Leonard Part Six" Starred and produced by Bill Cosby, directed by Paul Weiland, this movie is one huge hommage to Cosby's supposed genius as a comedian. Though Cosby came to his senses shortly before its release and tried to distance himself from it, Weiland pushed ahead. The movie tanked painfully, mostly because the only ingredient lacking for it to be an epic comedy is in fact any trace amount of humour. "The toxic avenger" Deary, deary me.... Bad acting, gratuitous nudity, awful special effects, wafer thin plot - need I go on? Anything parodied by Movie Theater 3000 (series). The story: Some dude is for whatever reason trapped in space by whomever. Just skip ahead until the main movie. Snide comments and funny commentaries included! "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

Unless this version is completely different from and incompatible with anything that has gone before it isn't a true HHG.

Stop thinking about the AAD as anything but a last ditch resort. Like I said before; the AAD activation altitude is the very lowest altitude at which an parachute could -perhaps- still deploy. YOU utterly failed to act - technology might just turn the tables. Note that nothing is said about comfortable landings. When you're so low you don't have enough altitude left to pick a suitable out at your leisure. Trees, concrete, swamps, houses, powerlines, other obstacles - Break a leg? Sucks to be you, but at least you're alive enough to complain about it. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

This RW-suit was damaged in a collision between two microlined freefall canopies. It clearly shows why CReW and microline don't mix. The canopies hit each other and then slid off each other in less than five seconds. I am not entirely sure of the models and sizes of the canopies, but I believe one of them was a Pulse 150 and the other a Pilot. Many thanks to the jumper who agreed to let me use this picture and more like it for instructional purposes. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

A really bad car analogy I like to make: Think of your AAD as an airbag. It is designed to activate as a last means to save your life when everything else has failed. You do not want your airbag to deploy while you are still 10 meters away from the tree you are about to hit. The AAD can only measure falling speed and altitude by monitoring air pressure. It cannot predict or correct any other factors that might be in play at the time, which could possibly be made worse by a reserve deploying. Think of examples such as you trying to cut a line of that cutaway baglock which has knotted itself to your left foot. The AAD firing parameters are set in such a way that the jumpers' time for dealing with the problem is maximised; ~750 ft above ground level is thought to be the absolute minimal altitude at which a reserve could succesfully open - provided the firing parameters are met. The 'altitude offset' was primarily intended to compensate for difference in heigt (above sea level) between DZ and airfield. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

Call me cynical, but I suspect that an 'elliptical canopy, suitable for beginners' sells better than a 'semi-eliptical canopy, suitable for beginners', which sells better than a 'sqaure canopy, suitable for experts'. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

Thank you Captain Obvious; that's why I didn't write "any and all two outs". Several years ago I have seen one or two occur directly after exit. It turned out to be a combination of the student jumping up against the door of the C182 and poor door handle design and an old rig. The rig was retired, the door handle improved and the student didn't quit jumping. Not immediately, at any rate. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

For stable two-out configurations, I guess there is no harm in disconnecting the RSL. But in the event of a downplane I teach students to cut away immediately and at any altitude. 1) Your altitude is decreasing rapidly in a downplane. 2) I "expect" most two-outs to occur at cypres-altitude 3) I do not want a studentrunning out of altitude while trying to decide whether they have enough altitude to disconnect their RSL or not. 4) I am not convinced that students will reliably be able to locate the RSL release easily and quickly. 5) Flame on. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

Well, I have seen more than one person carted off because they didn't know something like that the 135 they were jumping was actually a 119. So you can hate it all you want.... And you can claim I am not *experienced* if you like... But I have experienced watching some hot shot hammer in on a canopy they had no business jumping because well intended but clueless people told them the size they were jumping was "aggressive", but not insane. Er.. that's exactly my point, Ron...

I don't have that luxury if they are talking to inexperienced jumpers or students, now do I? That being said, I haven't heard it anymore for at least the past year and a half. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

What! Doesn't she want any more horror stories of a pancaked Calcaneus? I have one. Doesn't matter - we do. This thread is morbidly fascinating somehow.

Dutch news anchor: "Not useful, but very spectacular".

Oh, if it's proof you want, mister spoilsport, just look at all the skydiving footage - You can clearly see the curve of the horizon. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

The world is carried on the backs of four giant elephants, which in turn stand on the back of a humongeous sea turtle called A'Tuin. Any idiot should know that by now. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

Fortunately, Mad Skillz and telling people how awesome you are are virtually inseparable. AFAIK the rules simply refer to the TSO's, so you're(mostly) limited by max. suspended weight. Officially anyway. There too, instructor (and Rigger) are to provide a 'common sense'-factor. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

The Netherlands, six months "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom

Please prepare for somebody saying: "Holy thread hijack, Batman". That's what I understood from your previous posts :) I am a conservative jumper with ~850 jumps. I jump a L160 at 1.37 for CReW and a Storm 190 for freefall. In my personal book there is nothing wrong with only the most dedicated Canopy Pilots asking for and getting an exemption. I am not convinced (as in: "I am most definitely uncinvinced") that the majority of regular skydivers spends enough time learning to handle their canopy. If FF/FS is somebody's game, what do they need a WL of 2.0 for? No. It's difficult for me to explain in English, especially since I do not know exactly how other countries have defined their instructing licences. But Dutch instructors are much more than "people who help you trough your first few jumps". They are trained to see that the spirit of the Dutch regulations are obeyed in the field on a daily basis. So basically, anyone with an instructor licence could stop the 'dangerous' individual from jumping. Often, instructors are assisted by deputy instructors, who are trained to work with students and to signal "stuff the instructor should know about".It's up to the individual instructor (and depending on the individual deputy instructor) just how much responsibility can be delegated, but the instructor-on-duty has the final say and responsibility. The Dutch S&TA (safety manager) is a very different type of 'licence' than in the US. (s)he coordinates and/or signals the safety related issues on a dropzone. Often that person is also a full instructor, but that is not mandatory. That out-of-contecxt-statement actually made me laugh. You are absolutely right - and what's more, skydiving is no different that any other area you care to name, including politics. Back to the topic at hand, the Dutch Canopy rules indeed do only apply to Dutch jumpers. But if Joe Foreigner comes to a Dutch DZ, he needs an instructor to 'accept' his canopy choice and skill levels. Often, that won't be a problem, but somebody with a Stiletto 150 at 50 jumps will have some convincing to do. "That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport." ~mom