SkymonkeyONE

Steve was a fantastic guy! What a terrible loss. I was lucky enough to meet him at the very beginning of his wingsuiting and always had a great time with him at boogies. Wow, I just hate this. Chuck

Just as I stated, Steve. It never happened. I freely offered it, posted that I had done so (as is evidenced by your sleuth work), and they just blew me off for whatever reason. The end I am closing this program for another lengthy time because I simply can't believe the shit I have been reading lately. If anyone wants to get in touch with me use the damn telephone or e-mail me.

I guess everyone is entitiled to their own definition of the terms "intellectual property" and "plageurism" , but that is besides the point. My point is now, and has always been,that safe, common-sense wingsuit training methodology has been available to anyone who wanted it for a very long time. The current consortium trying to advance their personal version of things onto the USPA board for BSR consideration are spinning their wheels in my opinion. A great effort, but entirely self-serving. The BPA just added a slightly-tweaked version of the old BMI first flight course to their rules and have created a rating system. Good for them, but I have always felt that those guys are killing themselves with so many sign-off's and rating requirements. Never mind the positively astronomical rate they pay for yearly dues! Ultimately, I believe that the simple manner of making the current "reccomendations" into "regulations" and adding in a good first flight syllabus are all that's needed. That is, beyond vigilant policing by S&TA's, DZO's, and regional directors. There is no one "perfect way" to teach a first flight course and there will certainly never be any agreement by anyone on what should be considered "perfect" instructor qualifications. Tandem jumps were conducted in the USA for a whopping 20 years under a waiver from the FAA. We called that the "test period". During that time both major US manufacturers had similar requirements to become a TM, but not "the same". Same went for their examiner courses. Consider even having wingsuit recommendations in the SIM our "test period". Some of you older skydivers on here will remember how so many people whined like bitches when even the basic inclusion of wingsuiting into the SIM Oddly, this was simply because those recommendations were submitted by Scott Campos, another "devil-like BirdMan guy". Listen, it's definitely not "my way or the highway", but if a group of guys wants to strike out on their own and "create" something that all of us are expected to eat, then they might ought to have included the other authorities on such issues in their plan. Also, labeling me, at this point in my wingsuiting instructional career "a BirdMan (inc., all rights reserved, etc) guy" is really starting to grate on me. If that's going to continue, then lets just call a spade a spade and name Spot's proposal to the BOD the "Flock University/Tony Suit" syllabus, because that's what it is. It wasn't four years ago that I offered to FREELY run a BMI course (because I was rated by that manufacturer to do so) on this dropzone to several people at the local jumpsuit factory. They all, for whatever reason, declined, but did not hesitate to take my documents when I offered them. Anyone in that group wanting to argue that point might want to ask Jeff Nebelkopf, Flora, or Tony Uragallo. Had ANY of those people bothed to take a day and a half out of their time and actually sat through at least the lecture I would be much less angry over what is going on now. I can't believe I got suckered into posting again. Anyone wanting to argue with me about anything I have written, just call me. Anyone wanting to call me out against on anything I have written can expect a call from me from now on. It positively pains me that I was unable to attend the BOD to physically stand up and present my opinion on wingsuiting and it's needed direction. It was simply impossible for me to turn off my family driving down to visit me then. It has become very clear to me that the written word does not hold nearly as much credence as the spoken presentation. Two different RD's have told me that in the past few days. It was said in the BOD meeting that BirdMan, EU (the company and Jari himself) backed the "joint proposal". Absolutely not true. I was also just told that another moderator on these forums (John Hawke) who was at those meetings heard my name was thrown in as supporting this program by Spot as well. I very-specifically told Scotty Burns that my name was, under NO circumstances, to be associated with this or any other outside proposal because I had absolutely nothing to do with it's creation and had no read even a basic draft of it. I have no idea why Spot went through Scotty and just didn't call me himself.

-warm weather year round. Hot and balmy much of the time -flip flops or bare feet as normal footwear -what are long pants for? -skydiving and living on the DZ in Z-Hills -riding my Harleys in shorts and sneakers -being less than one hour from a fantastic bunch of beaches I could do without the daily rainshowers in the summer, but I LOVE the towering cumulous clouds that make for such fantastic wingsuit flights.

These are both critical portions of the letter that I sent to the S&T committe prior to the BOD meeting. Also, I will fight any "standardized document" or syllabus which was collaborated by people, most of whom do not possess USPA Instructional ratings. PARTICULARLY if it was plageurized from the BMI Instructor course manual that I co-wrote in 2002 and which I gave a copy to a group of people in 2005 so that they could create their own First Flight manual for the manufacturer they work for. It's shameless to me, it all reeks of forwarding a personal agenda, and it undermines the work of many of us who have already created solid instructional methodology which has been in use for a very long time. I am done with this thread. Chuck Blue D-12501 AFF/TM/SL-I, PRO, S&TA Z-Flock Wingsuit School (all brands)

The funniest thing about this entire online discussion is that my comment actually came from an e-mail I was having with Tom about me getting cross-trained onto the Strong tandem system! The tandem fly-by discussion was entirely an afterthougth to that. I read Tom's renewed, post BOD thoughts on the subject and I decided to reconsider my position on fly bys, which I promptly added to both of these threads on the subject. Tom heard what he heard, thought it odd, passed it on to me; I also thought it odd, then you guys did your own sleuthing and found no evidence of such an event. Excellent. You have answered both mine and Tom's curiosity, at least on the "facts" of such an event. You have also, in your own words, unearthed someones personal agenda (which is neither mine nor Tom Noonan's. ) Peace out, Chuckie

"Eye opening" to say the least!

And there you have it. That's two different sources.

I like clever things. By the way, Macca looks like a homeless person in his first pose. Just saying.... Chuckie PONY!!!!!

No, Glen. My regional director was in a meeting at this BOD and was told of an incident on the west coast where a wingsuiter in freefall clipped a tandem pair under canopy. I don't have any more information than that. It was the first I had ever heard of such a thing. It surprised me that such an event hadn't even been leaked to me or anyone I am in close contact with. Perhaps it simply never happened, but then why would it have been brought up at the BOD? Chuck

Spot, read my last post in the other thread. I am positive we had the same conversation with the same person.

The USAPT is a "jump slot" job and therefore you must be SL jump school qualified to earn jump pay and fill the billet. Oddly, it takes some of these "experienced" skydivers several times to pass the SL course at Fort Benning. My ex-wife Kris Ward took THREE times to pass. These days, the slots are actually codes "military freefall" and many (if not all) of the people on the team are now drawing SF HALO pay! Amazing. Chuck Just an old retired SF MFFJM (among other things) who made 100 jumps in tryouts in 1990.

Back in the 1970's it was a BIG deal when a guy got over 1000 jumps. My dad, Buddy Blue (D-597) still has a big blue plaque with his wings and a little hanger under it denoting his like 2000 or 3000 jumps. Very nice.

How is it even possible that these threads still exist? Man, I quit moderating like four years ago and they are STILL popping up! Amazing. God Bless You Paul Quade.

Your shit is way farther down the list than mine is, Infantry boy. Chuckie

I would not make that recommendation. A Sabre 2 in the right hands is a FAR more HP canopy which still exhibits fantastic opening characteristics. While a Pilot might have a slightly different recovery arc than the Sabre2, the main differences to me are in the bottom end power. A Pilot opens just slightly better than a Sabre2, but the Sabre2 has a much more powerful bottom end in my experience. FWIW I jump a Sabre2 97 loaded at about 1.8 with an RDS and HMA lines nowadays. Chuck

I just had a good e-mail conversation with my regional director today about this exact subject. Oddly, I had NO idea that some wingsuiter had successfully flown himself right into the suspension lines of a tandem pair out on the West coast. Listen, I definitely DO NOT condone tandem fly-bys unless they are practiced under the strictest of terms. In other words, I would have to consider them "stunts" only to be performed by the most-qualified wingsuiters and the most-willing tandem instructors(who also happen to fly wingsuits). The point was made to me in this last e-mail that it is only a matter of time before a triple fatality occurs because of some wannabe cool guy, inexperienced wingsuiter flying into a tandem pair. That will fuck everyone of us in ways which most of you tourist skydivers will never understand. If you want to show off and get close to things, then boogie off to Kjerag or the swiss valley and show Robi and the other rulers of the rock what you have. Do not, under any circumstances, endanger the lives of a tandem pair in your efforts to "be cool". Another thing: Just like in tandem jumping RW rules, you are not permitted to do RW or dock on a tandem unless you possess the same rating at the TM (or higher). If you possess no ratings whatsoever then you have NO business getting anywhere near a tandem pair. Even then, with those equal qualifications, you must still work these stunts out to the enth degree. Don't be that prick that kills a tandem passenger. Chuck Blue AFFI, TMI, SLI, PRO, S&TA, BMCI-4

You are dead wrong, brother. No amount of YouTube viewing and lieing in your logbook is going to prepare you for that first real-bad spinner opening (which you would likely have encountered in the "normal" minimum of 500 actual skydives. If you think "experience" is all you need to do well in a wingsuit, you probably ought to have a discussion with AFF course director Bram Clement or "master of big-way" Carl Daugherty on how "great" a time they had on some of their introductory jumps. Both guys had over 10,000 jumps when they found out the real answer.

Read my post in the other thread

I am in the "I do them a lot" category. I also routinely get flown by when I am doing tandems by my super-experienced wingsuit buddies. A few notes: -Never, ever fly by a tandem without that TM's permission. It will get you grounded, banned, or get your ass kicked. -Always plan the dive and then dive the plan with no exceptions whatsoever. This is particularly important when two or more of you are flying by. -Never fly over a tandem from the rear and over the front of the canopy. You will burble the tandem and then likely get your ass kicked. Also, it's almost impossible for you and your tandem student to see your approach, which is the most amazing part of the visual. -When I am doing the tandem, I always dump right around 5,500 feet and then turn straighth into the wind. This gives the wingsuiter plenty of time to get by you prior to pull altitude and gives him a non-erratic target to line up on. I always have my tandem swoopers fly by from left to right or right to left, about 20 feet or so right in front of me. -If am am swooping the tandem, it's always the last pair out of the plane. This is always pre-coordinated. I step out right after the tandem exit and fly in a circle over the top of them, always keeping their drogue in sight. Upon tandem canopy opening I set up my dive well off to the side and make my move. I dive hard down to them and then flatten out about 200 feet away and off to the side. That puts you screaming across their bow not losing any altitude at all and gives the tandem passenger a phenomenal display of our wingsuit's capability. -I love it both ways. I love being flown by and I love flying by. -There are lots and lots of tandem instructors who will NEVER let you fly by. Don't EVER push your luck by taking those "targets of opportunity." At Z-Hills it will definitely get you grounded and likely get your ass kicked if you happen to do it to Randy Lopez. -There are also lots of tandem instructors who don't mind it. You just have to find that person, gain his trust, arrange it so that his group is last out, and then you just have to REALLY keep your eye on the tandem while they are in droguefall. Be safe out there, Chuck

Andy, you are in the "older instructor who looks like a hippy and lives in a closet at the DZ" clique

Clint, you are a dirty boy

WOW! Nice job on getting your "grown up" ticket!! I am actually applying for that GS-11 job up there...Isn't that funny?

This is a minimum experience/minimum jump issue that applies to both instructors and students. USPA needs to set that standard and S&TA's, CCI's, and DZO's need to do the policing.

In all my years of instruction I have never had a tandem refusal. I HAVE had to move forward in the plane and let others exit first, then take a go around, but they have all ended up exiting of their own free will. I have had a number of AFF jump refusals and a couple of SL jump refusals (years ago) though. Ultimately, I am not about to force anyone out the door who outright refuses. That's just plain dumb for any number of reasons. Dave Lund covered most of them.