Royd

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- guilt (and morality) can exist within a person who in no way whatsoever believes in God. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So guilt can exist within a human being without any question of its existance, but faith has to be picked apart and brought to nought? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So you do not deny that faith exists within the human phsyche? You just have a probem with the object of this faith? My understanding is that science pooh-poohs the idea of faith, as if it's some kind of evolutionary dross.

It's OK. Guilt is a wonderful thing.

You can see a similar progression in scientific, mathematic, and engineering thought. You can see where adults have thought criticall, made advances and then passed those advances down to the next generation. Now - with science, maths, engineering etc we all accept that the totality of our knowledge on the subject has been the product of our ancestors applying critical thinking and coming up with solutions. By your hypothesis, through the thousands or hundreds of thousands of years that humans have existed, by the law of evolution, we should all be living in a virtual paradise by now. Sadly, each generation, in order to be kept from turning into a bunch of lawless hoodllums, needs the proverbial parental smackdown. Kind of blows the evolutionary progress of goodness out of the water. It fits much better with the Biblical formula.

So guilt can exist within a human being without any question of its existance, but faith has to be picked apart and brought to nought? I believe that is one of the underlying purposes of psychiatry. To remove guilt from the human phsyche.

I guess they could have called it the red dot. Hmmm....

Isn't it funny that you never have to teach a child to do wrong? Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That's correct, and that's what the Bible teaches. If you're honest, you'll admit that any manners or morality that you possess, came from a higher power, i.e. parents, grandparents, or authority figure of some kind. You didn't figure out all on your own, that it's wrong to eat all of the cookies and leave your brother with none. Just postulating.

Isn't it funny that you never have to teach a child to do wrong? You just said that some of us don't need the external teaching of good manners. I'd say those people are the execption, and few and far between.

It must have been that mention of feeling warm and fuzzy a few posts up.

There is no overriding law of right and wrong Isn't it funny that you never have to teach a child to do wrong? Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child.

Ye who are without sin....... 99.99999% correct on spelling is still an A+. It must have been a moment of byslexia.

If you had their record, you'd be strutting, too.

Thanks for pointing that out. Those who truly believe that there is no god should never feel guilt about anything. There is no overriding law of right and wrong. Quilt is not something that you can measure in a lab. Where in the hell does it come from? For those who fight against any mention of religion in the public eye have an internal battle between what they want to do and what they should do. If only they could get rid of that law and that quilt.

He's just the front man. The rest of us are in the background in our Ghillie suits.

Thanks, I'm truly enjoying it. I believe that they called it the USSR. There are a couple of others. Red China and North Korea. The USSR failed, Korea is a miserable failure. All hope for a better life has been taken away. China has started to get a grasp on the fact that people need something more to look forward to than a miserable day to day existance. Enter capitalism, and thus, the opportunity for people to seek their own level of being. The human spirit seeks a little bit higher form of existance than a dog or a snake, thus separating us by some unknown factor. Just because we can't put it in a bottle and examine it in a lab, doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. Altruism, for its own sake, makes as much sense to the logical mind as the concept of God does. If I buy lunch for the crew that is pouring a slab for me, I appear to have been generous, but I really just want to get a little bit more, or better work out of them. Unless I am compelled by some strange, unseen force,[let's call it compassion] I'm not just going to buy lunch for 10 guys pouring a slab somewhere. There are acts that defy logic; bravery, compassion, laying your life down for another, that cannot be explained. If you accept this premise, then you have to accept the idea that there may be something much larger than us that keeps us going in the right direction.

Here in Royd-world[Thanks, I like that, and think I'll keep it, with your permission.] I see all kinds of organizations based around philosopies or things. I just joined a local BMWMOA because I'm proud of my new R1200GSA [Yea, I'm bragging] and it gives me an opportunity to go on group rides with others of like mind. Totallly selfish, I know, but hey, it's a lot of fun. We meet at the local VFW club. We have flower clubs. We have gardening clubs. We have Civil War Reenactment clubs. We even have some silly ass Renaissance Fairs. We have civic organizations of like minded people. It seems that atheists, in their superior intellectalism, would have come together proudly, to present their solution to solve the world's problems.

If you're into National Parks, you could go to the Everglades and take an airboat ride.

What are we going to do about all of those people struggling with obesity?

Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Do you believe it would be hypocritical to oppose cloned meat, but support stem cell research? Why? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If someone gets uptight about putting cloned meat into their mouths just because it's not natural, and it might kill them, but wouldn't have a problem recieving a lab manufactured liver or heart created by stem cells, needs to look at their whole thinking process. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- But, it's all about a better world through science. Embrace it. You don't get to pick and choose. Science Rules.

They'd call us bullies. Oh, wait, they already do.

Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I don't see atheists making great efforts to lift up the downtrodden. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, you've tooted your horn today.

As much as atheists stomp and shout about Christians trying to shove religion down their throats, if they actually were helping the 'Less Fortunate' as a group, they wouldn't be silent about it.

There aren't too many products made here anymore, so boycotting us won't help you much. Just remember that Americans like a challenge. Btw, let's hope that you don't want to play the game tit for tat. We do produce a large amount of grain products. In a Mexican Standoff, any bets on who would last the longest? Have fun jumping in the rain.

I remember that he had a column in Boy's Life Magazine.

You mean like the Salvation Army or any number of downtown missions run by the religious community. I don't see atheists making great efforts to lift up the downtrodden.

Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It's actually quite funny that people who claim this spirituality and do every wierd thing from believing in the healing power of a piece of quartz, communing with nature, or thinking that they are one with the universe, hate the idea of a god because he has a few rules that they don't want to obey. That is, they go against one's carnal [a word that only has meaning in the spiritual sense] nature. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- My moments of brilliance are only guidance from above.